Obi Wan Kenobi - Disney+ (may contain spoilers)

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156186#Comment_119156186

Not at all. There's milquetoast criticism of the show or the acting and then there's some of the racist things being explicitly written about her online, and reportedly explicitly racist things that may have been sent directly to her. Nobody is gatekeeping you from not liking the character or not liking her performance.

Didn't we go through this a few years back with both Captain Marvel and Black Panther - before those titles even came out to criticise?

Sonics2k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156186#Comment_119156186

Honestly though, there's nothing wrong with criticizing the character of Reva and it's not racist. She is falling a bit flat, but I think it's also important to remember she is not the main protagonist of the show, Vader is. The issue though, is that the actress, is facing a lot of racist abuse and that is sadly a really common thing, not only in Star Wars but in media in general. It's easy to say "It's just a small part of the fan base", but when that fan base is millions of people, that small part can be thousands of people leaving abusive comments.

Even if we don't want to speak about racism, let's just remember the sheer volume of abuse that was thrown at Jake Lloyd, a literal child who got death threats for how he was told to play Anakin. Hell, even Ahmed Best who was the voice of Jar Jar binks was sent death threats for "ruining Star Wars".

There's loads to criticize about the show, I love Star Wars and this show is not perfect. Vader letting Obi Wan just leave when there's a fire, Obi Wan trying to destroy the panel on the gate in E3 instead of literally walking around it.

But the show is doing a lot right too. Obi Wan is weak now, he's clearly messed up after the events of Order 66, his connection to the Force is all but gone and it's been 10 years since he used his lightsaber. You're right in that this isn't the Obi Wan we know from Episode III, because it's not supposed to be him.

tigger123

I may have missed it, but I can't remember this kind of toxicity around The Mandolorian or the Book of Boba Fett...?

pixelburp

Jake Lloyd

Ahmed Best

John Boyega

Kelly Marie Tran

Moses Ingram

There others I'm forgetting?

It's a rinse repeat of all the exact same noises every time, more or less. It's weird it's so hard to countenance that hey, maybe there's a hardcore of Wars fans online who are horrible, racist pieces of shít (yes yes Lloyd is white, but when you're dogpiling a child you gotta rethink life choices). Whether the actor ain't any good is immaterial, we shouldn't make excuses for abuse. These are mutually exclusive concepts, but not always either.

Don't understand this, part 3 has been the best by a mile. Why is part 2 getting more praise?

Flinty997

I like the acting. But the storyline is a bit nuts.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156128#Comment_119156128

He doesn't need a 10 year old girl to guide him, but it's speaking more to her character that she's the type to take charge and has that confidence in herself, just like the Leia we see in the original trilogy. Plus Obi Wan has been living as a hermit for so long and has mostly detached himself from the Force (plus with the weight of what happened in Ep3 and now realising Anakin is alive), he's unsure of himself to a degree. But that's just for now, he's likely to be more back to himself by the end of the season.

As for Luke, it's like Bail Organa told Obi Wan, Luke isn't currently in danger, whereas Leia is in immediate danger, and Bail doesn't trust anyone else to be able to save her. The Inquisators were on Tatooine looking for Obi Wan, which actually brought them closer to Luke. Obi Wan going after Leia also helped to pull the Inquisators away from Tatooine which therefore also helps protect Luke.

McDermotX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157084#Comment_119157084

Lots of reasons.......initial excitement with the first two eps released together, worrying signs around the general quality level of the show, halfway point of the story with many people not happy with how legacy characters are being treated, poorly conceived new characters, disappointment with how the major confrontation of the story came across onscreen in Part 3 etc

.....but ultimately I wouldn't trouble yourself going on what aggregate scores perceive......if you're enjoying it, fair enough....if you're not, also fair enough. I mean, personally, I'd be whipping at least 25-30% off all those aggregates, but they're hardly terrible to begin with (between 8 and 9) and I'd suspect an audience summary would probably fall closer to that level.

Edit - actually, curiosity got to me and checked out Rotten Tomatoes, which I normally loathe doing, and it currently sits 26% lower on the audience scale, which is not very surprising TBH. Usual excuses of review-bombing etc will no doubt be out there, conveniently forgetting all the "5/5 BEST THING EVAR!" reviews that also tend to follow in these open forums - I mean, even The Phantom Menace had its overly excitable cheerleaders way back when. The truth is, it's not a 1/5 or a 5/5 show, and seems unlikely to show a major swing at this point.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157321#Comment_119157321

Fair enough. But its completely over played in the script.

Also considering in the past they could sense the force in people on another star ship or planet. It makes no sense they can be 10ft from each other and be unaware of each other. At this point we have to have to turn a blind eye to these sorts of incongruities as with all these shows and movies they seem unable to stick to any sort of consistency these days.

Acosta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156658#Comment_119156658

Both much better shows. Well, better in the case of Boba Fett. The Mandalorian is a vastly superior to both. After both these shows, expectation would have been reasonably high that Disney had learned from the mistakes they made previously.

I am surprised they didn't manage to come up with a better story than this. It's just not very good or interesting and some of it makes little sense. That whole bit where Leia was left by herself near the end of the third episode was so dumb. And as I've previously said, the show looks cheap, sparse and ropey a lot of the time. The Vader/Obi Wan confrontation deserved a better setting than a badly lit quarry.

The actor playing Reva has been really bad to be honest. I've not seen her in anything else. It could be a case of her taking a while to settle into the role. Also, it's not as if she has had great material to work with. I've not seen the racism, but I've not gone looking for it either. That's just disgusting and depressing and ultimately wouldn't be allowed to stand or grow if the likes of Twitter were more responsible in purging their platform of vermin

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157387#Comment_119157387

Sadly, if scuttlebutt is to be believed, Musk's intent with Twitter might amount to less oversight than more, which would presumably only embolden the bullying and àsshole cohort.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156658#Comment_119156658

Carl Weathers and Giancarlo Esposito weren’t “found talent” one was famous for Rocky and another famous for Breaking Bad respectively. Even among white supremacists both pieces of work are hugely popular. Usually when subset toxic fandoms start this **** it’s on new or lesser known breakthrough actors that get have an easier time having no respect for.

Mr.Nice Guy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156232#Comment_119156232

An explanation as to why she is the way she is would be nice. The extent of her character development thus far is basically that she's a career woman for the dark side.

CastorTroy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158549#Comment_119158549

Not just that. Going by what was said to her, she was taken from the gutter and is looked down on because of it. So I would assume she resents that treatment.

tigger123

I've watched two episodes so far and am loving it. Really looking forward to the rest.

And I think McGregor has said he'd be on for a second season. Happy days!

Sections of Star Wars fandom is quite toxic these days, and probably best ignored.

pixelburp

Episode 2 down and a mixed bag. More enjoyable than not, while definitely being the most linear, serialised narrative so far of the live action shows. A simple structure for the episode in terms of stakes and progression. But just lacking something I can't put my finger on; certainly the Inquisitors are just daft and every time I think of the "are we the baddies?" sketch from Mitchell and Webb.

I've liked Leia. As Obi-Wan said, she didn't sound like a 10 year old but that was the point. Sassy and precocious, and the actor did well. As to Reva? Yeahhhhbhh, I don't mind the Idea of the character but she has zero charisma and her line readings are all over the place. The actor doesn't seem to know how to play this villain.

And if we want a simple demonstration of the difference a good script and direction can give, the moment Obi-Wan learned Anakin was leagues more powerful than anything McGregor ever had to work with with the prequels. His face was pure shock, after an episode of still appearing broken and haunted.

Overheal

TIL Zach Braff was moleman

(Kevin Smith may or may not have - so many lines)

Homelander

Maybe it's just me because my friend was raving about how apparently amazing Episode 3 and making out like it's some kind of masterpiece in storytelling but all I feel like the shows Disney are putting out are increasingly written for kids - specially kids, as opposed to a show for kids and adults alike.

Simplistic story is one thing, but the ridiculously lazy plot holes/conveniences, hammy set pieces and two dimensional characters are another, I honestly thought Episode 3 was just plain weak. Ewan McGregor is doing the best he can, and there are moments of what the show could be (like when he learns Anakin is alive) but the material generally just is not there.

Flinty997

I don't think it's written for kids, kids shows can be more sophisticated than this. It's just not that well written.

pixelburp

I don't think it's a question of demographics, just doesn't feel like anyone's trying that hard. As Mark Kermode would say, it's all a bit Tab A into Slot B. Except McGregor, he's putting in a good shift, and is perhaps making up for the prequels.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140458#Comment_119140458

I don’t do social media but I saw a story about this when McGregor himself posted about it.

I was very glad to see that he was pointing out that these cowardly scum bags are not Star Wars fans. They just hang around waiting to attack people because their lives are empty.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157387#Comment_119157387

She's in the recent Coen Brothers Macbeth as Lady MacDuff. She was also in The Queen's Gambit.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158622#Comment_119158622

All the other Inquisitors came from the Jedi Order but Reva was found elsewhere - but I don’t think that the others looking down on her is what is driving her.

I think there is more to wanting to catch Kenobi than advancing up the ranks. Even the Fifth Brother had to remind her that Vader ordered them not to interfere with Kenobi.

I really like the Inquistors are openly at each other’s throats.

I really like how McGregor is showing the trauma and guilt and how it is blocking him from Qui-Gon.

And young Leia is just fantastic. No doubt the curmudgeons are complaining about the acting but the kid is only ten years old. So what if she isn’t going to win an Oscar. She is adorable and funny and she is just like Leia in OT. She even pulled a face in this episode and I saw Carrie Fisher - I’m sure it was just a coincidence but it was there.

And the confrontation with Vader was just fantastic. Kenobi is way out of practice and I doubt he could take on Reva or the others - he sure as hell is no match for Vader. EDIT: Vader in the quarry really felt like a Vader moment front the OT.

Also the episode introduced an idea I had never considered before - Vader doesn’t want to kill Kenobi. He wants him to suffer.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164049#Comment_119164049

Can you explain what you mean by “McGregor is doing the best he can”?

It seems like you are suggesting that McGregor feels himself burdened with this “terrible” project that he couldn’t get out of- which is odd since he is one of the creatives involved in the story.

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164092#Comment_119164092

I agree, what I was more getting at is that it's incredibly lazy and poorly told, but it's like they stood back and said "Sure they're kids, they won't notice or care" when assessing the script.

I had the same issue with Boba Fett, or at least the latter half of that show. Badly made show that seems to hinge on that exact sentiment. Silly story, endless contradictions and plot conveniences, bad acting, incredibly poor direction, etc.

There really is no excuse because clearly it's not a money issue, so I'm not sure what they are doing.

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164185#Comment_119164185

Okay? Not sure how or why you want me to elaborate on a pretty simple statement but, Ewan McGregor is putting in a pretty decent performance despite the show itself being flimsy and of little substance.

It's no great mystery why he'd want to be involved in a Star Wars TV show playing one of the franchises most popular characters - why wouldn't he.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164200#Comment_119164200

you still haven’t explained what you mean by “doing his best”.

In your own words it is a simple statement so why can’t you explain it?

Are you saying you think MvGregor considers the show to be “flimsy and of little substance”?

Homelander

I literally already explained it, I could not make it any simpler.

I am not sure why you are getting ultra-defensive and putting words in my mouth over my opinion.

What Ewan McGregor personally believes is of zero interest to me or has zero bearing on my perception of the show.

It is extremely common in the film and TV in industry for good actors to "do their best" eg. to be critically recognised as being good actors let down by the material/production.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164240#Comment_119164240

Now you have to explain how I am being “ultra-defensive”? What am I being defensive about? I was not aware you had attacked me or anything like that?

Seems more like you are the one being defensive. Maybe chill out a little.

And if what McGregor believes is of no interest to you then why are you claiming that you are inside his head and know whether he’s is doing his best?

Spon Farmer

Any of you folks know what the ore that Vader sets on fire might be?

Or is it something new?