National Football League Discussion

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824371#Comment_118824371

Think Pearse was sorted but reading the artcile below i would bring a hardhat to cusack park to be on the safe side

https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/2021/04/15/plans-for-improvements-at-teg-cusack-park-outlined/

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825017#Comment_118825017

Its interesting to see the costs. I would always assume a wall is cheaper than the complete renovation of a stand and also "a bit of net" cost a lot more than I expected.

dxhound2005

Plenty of permutations.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2022/0321/1287492-nfl-permutations-all-to-play-for-across-four-divisions/

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824371#Comment_118824371

Yea, was all bull AFAIK, talk at the time of subsidence which turned out to not ba an issue, but it took them I think 2 years to get it signed off as being OK.

I remember being at a club final one there, everyone standing out in the wind and rain looking into a perfectly safe and empty stand.

Such nonsense.....

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825469#Comment_118825469

Interesting what might happen between Mayo and Kildare.

A Mayo win puts them in the league final.

But so likely would a win have last week v Tyrone but they played some fringe players and only lost by a couple of points.

So again do management approach the game with a view to one last attempt to see players, try something etc, safe in the knowledge that they are safe in the division and if they don't lose by more than three points could still end up in the final.

Or do they go out to win it and get to that league final.

What's intriguing is that Kildare need to win to be sure of survival, so they won't be messing about regardless of what Mayo do.

And what's more intriguing is that any type of Kildare win means that Dublin are relegated.

So will Mayo's ambivalence relegate Dublin ?

Comic Book Guy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828790#Comment_118828790

Wouldn't Dublin still be safe if they win and either Tyrone or Donegal lose no matter what Kildare do?

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828974#Comment_118828974

That's true, Tyrone and Donegal both have to win to be sure.

The reality for Dublin is that it's not in their own hands.

manofwisdom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828974#Comment_118828974

And I'd expect Dublin to beat Monaghan and Kerry to beat Tyrone. Kildare result will then decide if its them or Tyrone relegated alongside Monaghan.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830903#Comment_118830903

The real interesting one is if Dublin Monoghan draw and Kildare lose. Kildare stay up. If Kildare end up on five points with at least two other teams they stay up unless they take a 12+ point hammering from Mayo

roadmaster

The teams that are relegated out of D2 if they dont win there provience i wonder will any players have issues playing in the TC in thinking its below them?

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832493#Comment_118832493

it would be very hard for them to argue that to be honest -i've seen cork, down and offally play this spring and to be honest i was very suprised with how poor all 3 were. Maybe Roscommon are suddenly some amazing, all concquering team all of a sudden, but i suspect that the 3 teams struggling at the foot of the table are just poor and in reality have little business playing anyhing other than the TC

I still have to be convinced though that the TC will be a success though, the attitude you allude to along with a lack of proper exposure and profile will be the deathnell for it i suspect, but that's not an NFL discussion i'd suggest.

bucketybuck

The TC will be a failure just like every other B competition the GAA have tried, because at the end of the day nobody dreams about winning the junior cup.

We will just see a continued drain of talent from the smaller counties as the players realise that not only will they not have any success, but now they won't even get to play for their county in the All ireland championship. Why would you basically give up your life without even that tiny reward?

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832693#Comment_118832693

'Ah but sure lookit its de chance of playing at Croke Park for your Tipperarys and your Laois' and your Limericks'

I think the ultimate killer will be lack of coverage. Your odd social media page will try to big up some players/matches but lack of TV coverage will kill it over the years.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832783#Comment_118832783

I'm afraid you will be proved correct.

The coverage if the TV must be tied in with media coverage if the Al championship. Open up the coverage, make coverage of the big tier one games conditional on covering the Tier 2 games as well.

The irfu and even the fai have done this well, tieing in the women's games with the men's coverage. I don't for one second believe there is a groundswell of demand or interest in the women's 6 nations, but it is guareteed live TV coverage over the next 6 weeks, simply because RTÉ are contractually obliged to cover it. The interest has increased simply because of the coverage, not the other way around.

For example let TG4 cover All ireland games if they cover the TC games,same with RTE and Virgin if they have the ambition to do it, or indeed Sky if they open games as Free to Air on their formats. It's all about ambition.

If it's properly sold and promoted, of course players will buy into it. Many players at club level will never win a senior championship, but junior and intermediate championships are still very highly valued and competed for wholeheartedly. It CAN work, but if its half arsed like the hurling tiers it won't work

callaway92

Yeh they really have to be strong from the get-go like you said. If it starts half-arsed, it'll be dead from the start.

Not to be too picky either, but I don't think the brand name of the 'Tailteann Cup' is great. Not that I have a great name off the top of my head to give it, but still. Could've maybe been better.

Hammer Archer

The lower tier hurling competitions have gradually gotten less and less coverage over the years. If I remember correctly, they were initially put on as a curtain raiser to All Ireland quarter finals and were broadcast live on RTE. They've gradually moved back to earlier in the year and are gotten out of the way as quickly as possible and moved from being broadcast on RTE to TG4 to being only online a few years back. There's pretty much zero national coverage whatsoever of any of the rounds prior to the finals.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832693#Comment_118832693

The problem with the junior cup as you put it is there is no promotion relegation. Ya after winning the Tailtain cup you compete in the Sam for a year but unless you get into D1/D2 you are back dow in the Tailtain.

The ideal situation would have been for next five years the winners would stay up. How you would reduce to 16 teams ( lower D2 teams not to qualify or provincial loses play an elimination contest)

At the end of five years it become a standalone competition with two teams promoted or relegated every year between Sam and Tailtain.

Biggest problem is the provincial setup. The penny is beginning to drop with some older players. A few weeks ago after a Saturday nigh game Sean Cavanagh mused was it worth retaining the provincial series with only one being competitive. Last Sunday night Pat Spillane commented that only in the men's football competition is there two tiers. There is three in every other GAA county competition.

I think some people here have never been at a club final where a club wins a Junior B/Novice or a Junior A competition. It not the cup that is the reward but progression to the next tier.

In most counties in the club competitions there is 4+ graded with Intermediate split into a premier and standard grade. In Limerick hurling there is Senior A&B two different grades, Premier an Standard Intermediate as well as Junior A and B.

Football is slightly different Senior and Intermediate are standard groups. However there is Premier and standard Junior A as well as JB.

The reward in any of these competitions should not be a cup, a holiday or playing a final in CP. The reward should be playing in the tier above. Testing yourself as a player against better teams than previously

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833201#Comment_118833201

Yeh I agree. This year the Nicky Rackard Cup starts immedaitely after the National League.

So for example, for whomever wins in the League Hurling 3A semi-final this week they will be playing every week for:

3A Semi, 3A Final, NR Match 1, NR Match 2, NR Match 3, weekend off, NR Match 4, NR Match 5, NR Final

I think that's a bit harsh on them tbh

manofwisdom

During this league campaign the main mention the Tailteann Cup got on RTÉ and the three national newspapers the Times, Examiner and independent is the competition to avoid.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833663#Comment_118833663

That says it in itself really ‘ah you don’t want to be playing that’

Way to promote the competition eh? Ha

Barlett

It's also a rubbish name for a competition - I can understand the sentiment but it doesn't exactly lend itself to marketing.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833802#Comment_118833802

Mentioned that a few comments above too. Really odd choice of name and I’d question the thought actually put into it

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833736#Comment_118833736

What do you expect them to say? That teams should be hoping to get relegated so they can play in the great new Tailteann Cup?

Stating that teams don't want to play at a lower level isn't an insult to the lower level.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833849#Comment_118833849

They are dismissing it completely. A brand new competition and they're dismissing it completely.

It's already being made sound completely inferior and embarrassing to be involved in.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833053#Comment_118833053

I don't think the Women's 6 Nations is a good comparison to the TC. Because crucially the Women's 6 Nations is a pinnacle standard and everyone who is playing there wants to be there and is desperate to win it. It makes it much easier to sell the coverage as being something important when players and managers are completed vested in it as being important. Whereas the Tailteann Cup will suffer from the problem that around a quarter of the teams will consider it beneath them, plyers may skip it, and coverage may impact attendances which will make it look even worse.

(If there's a comparison to the 6N, then it's probably the 6N B-Division with Georgia, Germany, Spain etc, which gets sod-all coverage from the main 6N broadcasters)

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118833925#Comment_118833925

Like many you equate TV coverage with the success of a competition. The 6 nations are poor comparisons. They are groups where there is no relegation/ promotion.

The only faulty the Tailtain has is that it and SAM are not stand alone competitions. They will be within five years.

The fault lies in that a team winning the Tailtain is not guaranteed to stay in SAM no matter how well they do. Take it that Cavan or Tipperary win the Tailtain this year. Next year they go on a run, qualify out of there group win the preliminary QF and get eliminated after a very close match in the QF proper.

However in the 2023&2024 league season they fail to get into D2 they will not play in SAM in 2024. That is where the fault lies not in the competition. SAM and Tailtain need to be stand alone competitions as fast as possible with promotion and relegation between them.

You will not see an f@@king county player disregarding the Tailtain then. As well the winning Tailtain should be a seeded team for the group stage down the line with the SAM semi-finalists playing off for the forth seed. It's all about the reward being big enough

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834082#Comment_118834082

Hmmmm. I don't think I 'equate TV coverage with the success of a competition'. I'm not sure where you get that from. I was just making a general comment on the oneeyedmans post that said forcing TV coverage would help make it a success like the Women's 6N. I actually think we might be in agreement on that point.

I accept your interesting point about the flaw in the Tailteann. That's not an easy circle to square though. By your suggested method we'd have a situation whereby at the start of a league campaign the 8 Division One teams are guaranteed to be in SAM, which is fine. Plus the team who won the TC 6 months previously, fine. Plus potentially a Division 4 Team who won the Tailteann Cup 18 months previously, not so fine imo. I think it's fair enough that there's a reset and that the TC victory gets you just one shot, after which it's back to performing well in the league again.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834441#Comment_118834441

Of the All Ireland championship is a two tier event with two divisions SAM and Tailtain. Then any relegation and promotions should strictly be within the compass of that competition. It immaterial where a team competes in the league.

If a Tailtain team gets up to SAM and survives there ( avoids relegation) then that is there right.

It's the same accross the club championship and leagues in a wry county. They are completely different competitions.

If you have two teams promoted and relegated then that is it.

At present in Hurling being in div one gives no divine right to be Liam McCarthy. Deciding places in one competition by ranking from another is stupid.

If a D4 tes gets into SAM and stays there for ten years so what. If they survive relegation it means they must win at least one head to h and with a team being relegated.

You have exactly the same with the present rules. If Cavan reaches the Ulster final or Tipp reach the Munster final then they will disqualify a D2 team

Fr Tod Umptious

People, lests be honest about the TC (as another mentioned bad marketing when it's hard to even spell it)

How many regular people are going to be that interested in it ?

How many people are interested in watching Div 3 or 4 of the NFL as it is ?

How many of us love to watch the EPL on Quest ?

How many of us love to watch lesser teams and competitions in any sport ?

It's the same with this competition.

It's not going to get a big media billing or profile because to be honest it doesn't deserve it.

The primary aim of it was always to give teams the ability to be competitive at their own level, and to give players at that level something to be able to achieve.

And it gives fans of those teams the chance to look forward to something they can be competitive at.

If it does that and players and management buy into that I'm sure it will be a huge success regardless of what media coverage it gets.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834530#Comment_118834530

It's a valid idea - a championship structure with promotion/relegation etc.

But clearly that would reduce the importance of the league - and they've literally just introduced a system whereby the Top X teams in the league will get through to the 'group of 16 stage' of the Championship. ('X' being the amount of places not already filled by provincial finalists, but likely to be around 13/14 imo). I think we have to give that system some reasonable time to see how it plays out. If a TC winner feels badly treated, then you know, get to your provincial final or get into Div2 of the league.

ATR72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118834904#Comment_118834904

You can still use League to seed the Championship. Maybe an extra home game for league finalists and highest ranked teams. Bass is right though. A tiered championship works best if you just have 2 tiers with promotion and relegation.

An Ciarraioch

Tipp and Cavan have both won promotion to Division Three - given the former avoid both Kerry and Cork in Munster, they could very well bypass the Tailteann Cup altogether.

GalwayMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118840338#Comment_118840338

You can only bypass the tailteann cup if they get to final which I'm betting is going to be clare so no can't see it happening.

grbear

The Táilteann cup is going to get abandoned in a few years just like previous attempts at lower grade football championships. Just look at the schedule for matches this weekend. The weakest weekend of sport in months with no club soccer or international rugby and the GAA haven't capitalized fully on that opportunity.

Division 3 and 4 should have been finished yesterday with the Division 4 matches kicking off at 2 and Division 3 at 4 or something along those lines anyway. Londons travel requirements would have to be factored in for Division 4 but that should have been accounted for before a ball was even kicked in the division. You probably wouldn't get TV coverage for those matches but they'd at least be the main topic on Saturday Sport on Radio 1.

Today Divisions 1, 2 and 3 (and one now meaningless match in 4) are all scheduled on top of each other so that the football is out of the way before the semi-final of this neutered abomination of a so-called hurling league throws in.

Why couldn't Division 2 kick off at half one and Division 1 at half three? There's enough at stake in each Division that they could hold people's attention for 100 minutes. As things stand Division 1 will, rightly, get the most attention until those matches end and then we'll get 15 minutes focus on two and three before a swift changeover to the Wexford-Waterford challenge game.

We've seen the Joe Mcdonagh pushed to the sidelines because it's been scheduled against bigger games but it'll keep going because it's still better than what counties had before. If the GAA do the same with the Táilteann Cup then I think it won't last five years.

enricoh

You'd think the gaa would have put on say the division 2 matches on last night instead of having them all on at the same time today. Have a match on telly last night, they are dreadful at promoting the game.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118841786#Comment_118841786

There was a match on TV last night, the semi of the hurling, Cork beat Kilkenny.

You would rarely have 2 games on a Saturday on TV outside of the Championship.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118841786#Comment_118841786

The idea of having them on the same time is so no one has an advantage.

FIFA do the exact same thing are you gonna claim they are bad at promoting games.

MacDanger

Splitting the D1 & D2 games today to allow one of each to be shown should have been doable though.

Why wasn't the sligo / Leitrim game moved to yesterday?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118840373#Comment_118840373

I would not put the wad on that. There is very little between Tipp, Limerick ir Clare. All three will have targeted getting to the Final this year especially Tipp. Clare are automatically in SAM as they are half way up D2. Limerick and Tipp will know that it gets them in SAM.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842199#Comment_118842199

If Limerick finish second in the table but win the division final are they last seed or second last for Sam ?

munster87

Fair play to tg4, doing a good job with the updates of division 1 games today.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842452#Comment_118842452

Great coverage, fair play to them for getting all the live cameras around and the option of the games on the player too.

Jeju

Rossies are 1-14 to 0-6 at HT against Galway, looks like 3 Connacht teams in Div 1 next year.

Hammer Archer

As it stands, no Leinster teams in division 1 next year.

munster87

And 3 Connacht?!

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842614#Comment_118842614

The league does not lie. A weak team will likely win Leinster this year for the first time in a long time. Then go no further is my prediction.

tanko

WTF are Monaghan doing, their tacking is shocking. What would a draw mean?

robbiezero

Great finish there. McCarron is some yoke.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842661#Comment_118842661

The way the commentators were talking Monaghan needed the win to stay up.

Which doofus skied Dublin's last chance there? I'd have made a better fist of that meself, didn't seem to set himself at all...

sligeach

That was hilarious by Monaghan, to let Dublin think they were staying up and Monaghan would be going down instead. In all seriousness though, Monaghan nearly made a total balls of that game. Dublin bottom, with Kildare joining them. Neither can have any complaints.