Opinons on this gradient

Breezer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118570087#Comment_118570087

That bit at Mulranny is mad alright. I just about made it up. My friend, who would be the typical greenway cyclist (i.e. a non cyclist) had to get off his electric bike and push. Our other friend on a non-electric hybrid didn’t even attempt it, and he’s a reasonably regular “about town” cyclist.

4% over that distance isn’t ideal on a greenway. Could they zig zag it a bit or something on the existing land, I wonder?

loyatemu

all the documents for the Blessington Greenway are here (drawings on the link at the bottom of the page).

The original proposal had some sort of hardcore surface, but I think they're now going with asphalt as on virtually all Greenways, for accessibility reasons.

Mercian Pro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571981#Comment_118571981

Afraid that that links to the 2017 proposal that was subsequently withdrawn. The more recent application was made directly to Bord Pleanala as the scope had increased and it adjoins a Special Area of Conservation. Maybe Muahahaha could inform us where the plans can be viewed as he seems to have seen them?

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577966#Comment_118577966

You can see all the plans in PDFs at the bottom of this page, it is a new application from the 2017 version and only went live about 2 weeks ago. The public consultation is until March 3rd iirc

https://www.wicklow.ie/Living/Services/Community/Blessington-eGreenway

Page 8 of this document outlines the entire 33km route

https://www.wicklow.ie/Portals/0/adam/Documents/wd_gdeyVrEOQt4TG4G2yQg/Link/1.%20Blessington%20eGreenway%20-%20Planning%20Statement.pdf

From what I am hearing it is going to face a fair bit of resistance- not becasue of the greenway itself which has good support locally but becasue under this new plan the council want to erect traffic lights at three different bridges that cross the lake. The bridges are currently two way traffic lanes but they plan to reduce them down to 1 lane and then a shared cycle/pedestrian path taking up the rest of the space. Unsurprisingly this hasnt gone down well with people who drive across these bridges to get to work, schools, etc every day as they are going to be getting hit with a red light even if a cyclist or pedestrian is not using the bridge.

Richard Hillman

Depends on the gearing. If it's mountain bike type gears, he should be able to spin on up there, no problem.

I think I was going up Killiney hill when I was around 13/14, max gradiant on my route was between 10-15%. Average 7% over 1km.

Some times I had to stop and walk. But I was terribly unfit and had undiagnosed asthma.

ED E

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118578065#Comment_118578065

If the council deploy proper inductive loops they could easily limit drivers exposure to dwell times.

Mercian Pro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118578065#Comment_118578065

Excellent - many thanks for that. Apologies loyatemu, your link didn't work for me earlier but does now. Despite numerous searches on both the Bord Pleanala and Wicklow Co Co websites, I never came across that. Maybe it was because I didn't specify that it was an eGreenway (whatever that is!)

Mods, maybe some of the posts here dealing just with the Blessington Greenway could be moved to that thread and we can discuss the radical idea of traffic lights on narrow bridges to allow cyclists cross!

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118578472#Comment_118578472

If inductive loops means those sensors in the road that let the lights know someone is waiting then I think they are planned. But becasue it is a shuttle set up those waiting to enter the bridge will be on a red while those on coming the opposite direction clear the distance. There is a larger problem on one of the bridges (Kilkiernan) in that it has T junctions at both ends of it so there is going to have to be even more traffic light sequences for those turning left or right onto the bridge.

People locally dont want any lights or dwell times at all and there is resentment that they have supported the greenway but now the current plans are going to impact how they get about, to work, to schools, etc. Most of the time they cross these bridges there will be no cyclists/pedestrians on them yet they will be held up becasue of the reduction of the bridge down to one lane.

The problem isnt the idea of space being given up on the bridges for a cycleway, it is the removal of two way traffic that people are irked about. It seems the council are cheaping out when there are other solutions available such as cantilevered boardwalks as done on other bridges like in Newbridge and Tullow. Im not a fan of the traffic lights from an aesthetic point of view becasue the bridges are in rural areas of outstanding natural beauty where the views are of the lake, huge forests and mountains, people often stop to take photographs of the views. I think if they put up traffic lights in this type of environment it will take the gloss off what is a very scenic area. Im hopeful the council come back with a better solution with more suitable infrastructure than traffic lights but my guess is that this is about doing it on the cheapest possible budget and widening the bridges isnt an option they will consider.

Mercian Pro

Despite pages of highly technical analysis, it is extremely difficult to figure out how the proposed "shuttle" system on the bridges will actually work in practice. In the absence of anyone on the Greenway activating the lights at the toucan crossings, how long will someone have to wait for the full red/red; red/green; red/red sequence to complete before it switches to green/red and you can cross? I normally wouldn't be too concerned about drivers being held up but it would be a shame if local support turned to opposition over unclear information.

It does seem very odd that there is no mention of any alternatives being examined and costed such as the obvious cantilevered solution mentioned above. As well as budgetary reasons, there may be EIS issues as the lake is protected unlike the proposed route of the Greenway in the adjoining woodland. Hopefully Bord Pleanala will look at this issue although a further delay would be most unwelcome.

Muahahaha

Merican Ive read through those pages of technical documents and modelling of how the shuttle system works and also didnt see anything that states how long traffic will be held up at a red light. Theres lots of diagrams but the plan hasnt seemed to mention actual timings.

Nonetheless I think the red/green phase would be around about 60 seconds to get 6 or 7 cars across the length of the bridge. But that then increases to 120 seconds in the case of Kilkerinan bridge as there is a T junction at both ends so you have traffic turning left/right on to the bridge meaning each direction needs their own green phase. That could be negated somewhat with a right turning filter lane but AFAIK the space isnt there for that. Then if a pedestrian at either end of the bridge presses the button on the toucan crossing the red phase for traffic would get longer again.

I was talking to a couple of people over the weekend about it. One woman I know crosses Kilkerian bridge four times a day doing school runs and work and is opposed to traffic lights on the basis that potentially on a unlucky day her four trips could mean sitting at a red lights for 10 or 12 minutes in what is a rural area that never had traffic lights before. I can understand her concerns when people just want to get home to their houses and get the dinner on, etc. The people who use these bridges every day are effectively living on an island as their only other option is a 30km detour right around the lake so its not hard to see why there is annoyance about the current plan even though most support the greenway in general (and some are giving up land to facilitate it)

Another person said to me why dont they just place speed bumps/traffic calming infrastructure to reduce the traffic down to 20kph or under for the length of the bridge. i.e allow cyclists and cars to share what is currently there (pedestrians would use the existing pathway). He made the point that the greenway is 33km of dedicated cyclelane so is it really that big a deal for cyclists & cars to share 3 x 100m bridges. Personally I hate speed bumps but I would actually prefer that idea over installing lots of traffic lights in a scenic area. The council may well have considered the idea of traffic calming and speed bumps but are wary of some motorists being arseholes who will overtake cyclists despite the speed bumps.

ED E

Id say the timings are absent as thats an operational matter not a planning one. The councils set and change them at will. The chances are it'll be demand driven so if cars are stacking on one side it'll flip to that side. Approach sensors can mean it'll change BEFORE you get to the red. A magic "green wave". Doesnt need to be doom and gloom.

Speed bumps won't work, see cnuts in SUVs.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rorymeakin/status/1488674572786413569