am i doing something wrong?

sniperman

hi folks,need a bit of help/advice,i have a marlin 243 a few weeks now,and it seems to shoot very well with 80 gr soft point,i have it zeroed at 1inc high at 100 yards,im getting inch groups,so well pleased,problem starts when shooting off sticks,cant seem to be accurate,missed a few foxs at about 120-170 yards,im fine off the bipod,but cant use it all the time,checked the zero,its still fine,i just cant seem to shoot of sticks well,i wont go after any deer until im confident enough for a clean hit/kill,how i shoot is like this,im on the sticks,i cannot hold steady enough to squeeze the trigger,so i bring the cross from left to right slowly,and when im sure its on target i pull,im not evan confident at foxs now in case i wound,a thing i hate to do,so can anyone offer any suggestions on improving my shot? do i need to hold tight?/loose?my scope is a hawke 4-12x50,should i get bigger mag? if i could use the bipod all the time i think id be fine,but on the hilly land where i go thats not possible,i have to be standing,with the sticks,thanks folks

keith s

Common enough I'd say.

You need time on the sticks to get better, plus it's always different to shoot paper than something with a heartbeat.

If you have a 22, I'd start there..

Off the sticks on to paper at 50 and then 100 meters. When you have it nailed, bring out the centrefire again.

I'd also be reluctant to flip flap, between sticks, I've had a few different types and if I had just focused on practicing of the one set I'd have got used to them a lot quicker.

Practice quickly deploying the sticks and mounting the rifle (unloaded, bolt out obviously) in the house. This will mean better timing and less pressure when you are out in the feild.

Cass

I've the same problem and still suffer it, although not quite as bad.

Its anticipation of the shot. You tense up, whether you realise it or not, and this minute movement due to tensing moves your shoulder, arm and hence point of aim. It all happens in a second or less so between the time you decide to pull the trigger and the act of pulling it the shot placement is moved by as little as a couple of mil at your rifle which translates into inches even feet (depending on severity of the movement) at the target.

The only solution is practice. Not to be argumentative with the above, but the idea of trying it with the 22lr, while good in theory, doesn't hold up well in practice because the 22lr has no recoil and you you don't tense up as much as you would with the 243/centrefire.

I won't pretend to have the answer(s) because if I did I'd have sorted myself by now, but its a case of repitition, breathing, practice, and muscle memory. You need to either tense from the off, or learn to stay "loose" throughout the shot.

Answer me this, when you shoot off the bipod do you feel yourself tense up? I'm guessing not becuase you know the bipod is taking the weight of the rifle and your shooting till this point has probably been mostly off hte bipod so you've learned the skill of not flinching/tensing when shooting.

The very simple answer is to practice and learn this skill with sticks. The other problem, I have, with sticks is my own stability. I find myself rocking, meaning my stance is wrong or not good enough so the slow and small back and forth movement of my body transfers into the sticks. Couple this movement with my tensing and, well, I end up in the same boat as you.

I know its me because I've taken shots using the bipod, off a gate, using a tree branch as a mae shift set of sticks and never have the same problems. So I'm guessing there is a mental aspect in this too. In other words I anticpate the problem, overthink it, overanalyse it, and hence exaggerate the consequences.

sniperman

lads thanks for comments,hi cass,yes your right i feel very relaxed off the bipod as i know ill be on or very near bull,i guess ill just have to get out and practice alot more,and try get some confidence.

kunekunesika

What are you doing with your front hand? I went from gripping the barrel hard, to pulling down really hard on the strap. Shot lovely off sticks now.

zeissman

What type of sticks are you using ?

I only started using sticks last year having always used the bipod and I'm sorry I didn't buy them sooner.

I practiced a lot with my 22 on gongs at various distances and feel quite confident with them now. I shot a few deer off them now with the 308 and I know the practice with the 22 helped a lot. My 22 has the same stock, trigger etc as my 308 so I think that helped as well.

If you have a 22 do practice with it as it did help me.

I'm using the viperflex sticks.

sniperman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572584#Comment_118572584

hi,i am holding the barrel,but not hard,is that my mistake?

sniperman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572794#Comment_118572794

hi,ah they are just homemade sticks,but they are made strong,and suit my height,

zeissman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118573037#Comment_118573037

Rest the forend on the sticks and don't let anything touch the barrel.

clivej

Get yourself a set of quad sticks, it makes a big difference.

kunekunesika

Don't let anything touch the barrel. And dont pull the front strap like your life depends on it.

kunekunesika

RossiFan08

I have no idea of you experience level so I am just going to put everything down, please dont take it as me talking down just want to include everything.. Like mentioned above get yourself a set of decent quad sticks, bi and tri sticks are ok but nothing compares to the quad sticks. The homemade ones are ok but where the rifle rests (particularly on the foreend) on the sticks is much better on the bought one as it as a flat base and rocks around less when compared to the V between the sticks on the homemade ones. I have never tried the viper flex but I have a set of bush sticks and get on well with them:

https://lakelandshootingcentre.ie/product/bush-stick/

When setting up the rilfe on the sticks have the foreend not the barrel resting on the front set (I normally go just behind the swivel stud) and the heel of the pistol grip just infront of the v at the back set. I typically hold the stock and foregrip with my fore hand and gently lean into the rilfe but not too much pressure as to tense. You want to be roughly at a 35 deg angle to with your feet a little more than should width apart. The setup in the ad for the bush sticks is a good example.

With sticks, when compared to the bipod anyway, little movement has a big impact so try get as many things on your side to start. Make sure you trigger isnt too heavy that it maybe causing you to move when pulling, if your having to lift your head slightly to get a decent sight picture drop your rings or get a stock pack to lift your head.

Once you have all of the above down practise is your best friend, dont expect to be getting the same level of accuracy with the sticks compared to the bipod but you should be able to get around a 2 inch group at 100 pretty consistanly

JP22

If I may, I would add the following to the great suggestions to date.

Don’t get flustered.

Control your breathing and your excitement.

Take your time, slow is fast if done properly.

For any type of shooting the barrel should NEVER EVER be touching anything.

Practice, practice and more practice, yes, I know it’s boring, been there, done that, have the t-shirt’(s)……

but practice, knowledge and familiarity pays off in the end.

Best of luck.

Heavy handed

I started out with homemade sticks too and had the same issues that your having. End of the day it was down to practice, I used clay pigeons as targets at various distances. Over time it became second nature and would be confident enough now using them when needed

Rescueme0007

I use a single stick when shooting from the shoulder, many have given good advice as to controlling breathing, relaxing etc., I have found that concentrating on seeing the bullet strike on the target (I never do, it just helps me concentrate) assists greatly. Also reducing the magnification on the scope helps as it magnifies the movement along with the image. As many before me have said practice, practice and more practice will be key. Once you're achieving your desired results make you replicate the same routine for each shot, it'll help in calming down. I wish you success in your efforts!!😀

Kat1170

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572321#Comment_118572321

Cass, you can get a "fifth" leg for quad sticks that is supposed to minimise any back/forth movement.

Cass

I've no idea. I don't own quad sticks. I have Caldwell shooting stick (three legs and another with just two) which really highlighted my stability issues so went with Primos trigger sticks instead.

They are viewed by some as a little awkward to carry compared to others, but for me they're much better in terms of deployment, stability and suitability. I've tried quad sticks, but even with the four legs there is still two points for me to sway back and forth. The Primos with a pull of the trigger, immediately deploys the three legs regardless of the ground you'e standing on and keep the trigger pulled and I can adjust as I wish. I now have a stable and secure front rest for the rifle much like if I used a tree branch, gate, fence post, etc.

clivej

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118592623#Comment_118592623

IMO you wont need a 'Fifth' leg using quad sticks, they are very stable to use as is. They are easy to make using the green garden poles from Woodies, B&Q, or a good garden centre.

Or you could try a set of 'Tri' sticks. I used a set with an extra 'Fouth' leg using a fishing rod bank rest, fixed to one leg. I could hit a big rock 700y away with them. But not as easy to deploy or carry as the quad sticks. Also I found that a shorter version of the quad sticks was handy, used kneeling. Easy to carry and I use these when stalking.

This is what I made up. I used bicyle iner-tube on the bottom legs, no need for the webbing at the top. I won the UK Phoenix 100y, 200y, 300y, 'Sporting Rifle' event using these. 100y, and 200y off the sticks, 300y prone.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057639550/quad-shooting-sticks

Tri sticks with the extra fishing rest leg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/74297793#Comment_74297793

Grizzly 45

Does anyone not use their rifle slings here apart from carrying their rifles? Learn how to sling properly and you have a bit of kit ready to go straight off the shoulder so to speak. Only been used for generations for a stabilising platform and any army that still teaches marksmanship emphasises the use of slings.

Sticks are nice, but its another bit of kit you have to carry with you in the field all day, and it becomes[I find anyway] a nuisance in weight and awkwardness dragging it around.

Just my 2cents.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610239#Comment_118610239

Elbow through and bring the arm back to the stock? I would generally have the sling setup for this. My Dad thought me that method when I was a pup. Funny enough you mention army, when I was in the FCA I was stopped from doing it for some reason? Maybe someone with more DF experience can advise better.

Grizzly 45

Or around the shoulder and slide the sling tight with the weak hand on the fore-end.

Or the German-style carry.A bit unnerving this one if you have never seen it,and having the muzzle close to your face. Underloading the rifle is another good idea. As well as making sure your saftey is on.Carry the gun slung forward, with your weak arm and shoulder thru the loop of the sling muzzle up on your weak shoulder keeping your weak hand on the fore-end. See your target, roll the fore-end towards your strong shoulder, while bringing up your strong hand to engage the grip and trigger and cycle the bolt to put a round into battery. Done right you should have a triangle formed with your weak arm taking up sling slack around the elbow and your weak hand securing it on the forend. A bit of practice makes this incredibly quick.

JP22

As Grizz and Feisar says, slings are great but you need to practice and use the right sling.

I'm a sling user, then again I'm ex mil where we were taught to use them.

On shooting positions, too many people just rely on standing which is the hardest position to shoot from.

Sitting on your royal rear-end and semi-sitting/kneeling is another military method.

All methods work, some are easier than others, some are more stable than others, practice them all, see what works best for you.

alphaburner

Have a look at this:

https://youtu.be/ZPAuefpZY6o

SVI40

I use a Ching sling, as made popular by Jeff Cooper. Works similar to a single point that target shooters use. Galco Gun Leather use to make them, not sure if they still do.

trackerman

For what its worth, here is my experience after 4 years on various sticks.

1. Make sure you 'squeeze' the trigger between thumb and trigger finger so that the PoA does NOT shift as you squeeze. You wont notice the problem as much on Bench or Bipod, but sticks will amplify the issue. A lighter trigger can also compensate for this.
2. Get good sticks, we ended up with Blaser Carbon quad sticks, trust me... they are worth every penny! Cheap sticks are just that... cheap.
3. For longer shots off quad sticks, we carry a monopod which can be hand-fixed as a 5th leg out front. This is amazing but limits movement, so better on the longer shots... and the Blaser Quadsticks come in handy here with their rotatable head (very smooth action).
4. Spread your legs and ensure your as steady as possible
5. Don't attempt a shot if your out of breath, you will be all over the place.
6. Relax and don't take the shot unless your very confident of a kill, if your swinging left and right of the target and hope to 'hit' it mid-swing then for the sake of being humane please don't attempt the shot.

Tony. 10

I also use a marlin 243 for the last 7 yrs with a 2.5x16x42 scope 100grain federal soft point from tripod sticks I'm so confident in setup if I miss its down to human error both at foxes and deer they aren't the most expensive riffle but are very accurate hope that helps