Prime Time housing debate: Eoin O Broin vs Darragh O'Brien

Ha Long Bay · 17-02-2022 3:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118644522#Comment_118644522

In a few simple words from yourself what is your issue with this development?

I have already gave my opinion SF were trying to block it as they don't want houses built to give them something to moan about.

downtheroad · 17-02-2022 9:14am

The church wants rezone many of its sites in Dublin to allow housebuilding. This article mentions Raheny and Artane which I'm familiar with. Absolutely huge sites, with small enough mass attendances. The council should be approving this, allowing a smaller church to be built on site (as is to happen at a church site in Finglas) but not allow the church to profit heavily from this.

Time for the church to show its benevolence here and give the land at low or no cost to allow housing be built all across Dublin.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-archdiocese-urges-rezoning-church-sites-to-allow-homebuilding-1.4804591

blanch152 · 17-02-2022 9:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118644244#Comment_118644244

That doesn't mean that the total costs will be less.

If the planning/development/finance costs more than the 15%, or the risk is taken on the side of the council/government, the total costs are likely to be much more, hence we see the NCH and many many other projects running over budget.

Brucie Bonus · 17-02-2022 2:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118644604#Comment_118644604

All the parties and people who objected wanted them all social. I think that was a good reason.

Everybody, all parties except FG wanted assurances about the site should the build fall through. I think that's a good reason.

All non government parties, not all Labour, didn't like the gifting of public land. Id agree with that.

Your thing about SF just moaning is misguided.

Brucie Bonus · 17-02-2022 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118644588#Comment_118644588

Kenny's cabinet chose the site and started the tender process.

Varadkars cabinet doubled down on the site despite pleas not to. Paschal and Harris apologised for not keeping an eye on the projects and allowing massive over runs go unchecked. Then Harris mislead the Dail about it and had to correct himself and apologise.

The NCH was set up and overseen by the like of pashal and Simon.

To clarify...

Its a FG project gone awry. Your 25 years ago guff is nonsense. You are happy for these people to continue entering poor deals.

Ha Long Bay · 17-02-2022 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118646640#Comment_118646640

Do you agree with SF voting against it and do you think the development of over 850 homes should have been 100% social with no affordable or cost rental?

Brucie Bonus · 17-02-2022 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118646750#Comment_118646750

I would have had 80% social, 20% Affordable on public land.

SF had good reason. I think you putting it all on SF has you drawing the wrong conclusions.

astrofool · 17-02-2022 3:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118646782#Comment_118646782

I think you would find it very difficult to sell those 20% affordable houses if it was known that the other 80% was social tenants, there's a reason that approach has been long abandoned (is SF actually pushing those %'s?).

Brucie Bonus · 17-02-2022 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118647086#Comment_118647086

True. I would prefer small estates of one or the other. However many mostly private estates were once 100% social. Back when housing was seen as a need and not an asset.

Don't know about SF. I form my own opinions and then see who matches best.

astrofool · 17-02-2022 10:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118647588#Comment_118647588

Most of those estates were also black spots for antisocial behaviour until a generation or two later (when all the property had been sold off), majority social housing estates is an absolutely failed policy, you're really looking at PBP to match your opinions best rather than SF.

Brucie Bonus · 17-02-2022 11:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118649607#Comment_118649607

That's broadly inaccurate. I grew up in and around such estates. Some were bad, others weren't. In my experience nearly every privately owned house has the original council tenant family. I don't know were you think these new buyers came from or the original tenants went.

If not for social housing many more working families would likely be renting today. It was a resounding cross country generational success. It moved many from slums and tenements into a house. It was a great thing IMO. Back before successive Irish governments got overly greedy and Tory.

astrofool · 17-02-2022 11:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118649899#Comment_118649899

You'll find all modern policymakers would disagree with you on that bar those on the further left than SF and Labour would be.

It's the reason a % of all new builds have to be set aside as social housing.

Podge_irl · 17-02-2022 11:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118646640#Comment_118646640

All "the people" who objected may have claimed their objection was the lack of social housing, but I do not for a second believe they would have not objected had it been 100% social.

markodaly · 18-02-2022 2:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118646738#Comment_118646738

You need to look at the facts

The plan was first mooted in 1993, but not seriously kicked off till 2006, when FF were in government.

The Mater site was chosen first but planning was refused in 2012

The government choose the St James site in 2012 based from a recommendation by Frank Dolphin's report, and construction actually began in 2016

The project is overseen by a committee. TD's and ministers dont run the show here, as it would be stupid to do so.

Again, you need to look at the facts Bruce.

Brucie Bonus · 18-02-2022 2:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118650745#Comment_118650745

I posted the facts. You raised it as a reason why we should stay the course in housing. Housing is overseen by the same people oversaw/see the NCH. And we already pay people to build for us but the deals we enter into are terrible.

blanch152 · 18-02-2022 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118650745#Comment_118650745

Isn't it just bonkers that the poster who is so critical of the government building the NCH itself wants the government to do the exact same when it comes to building houses.

Mad, Ted.

fliball123 · 18-02-2022 5:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118646782#Comment_118646782

wow so FTBs get nothing.. This is where this country is b0ll0xed the tail wagging the dog here. Live right , play by the rules as in get a job, get married and try and get somewhere to live and you get nothing but more tax and hardship to the point of not being able to afford to have kids. Then you have the lefties have a few babies from a few different daddies, sign the state up as baby daddy , get your house, lifestyle and kids paid for by the state and of course the boyfriend comes to live with his income too. This crap needs to end

Brucie Bonus · 18-02-2022 7:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118654534#Comment_118654534

First time buyers would be covered under the affordable. You assuming everyone in need of housing is a single mother on the dole is the bullshit that's needs to stop. It helps people who **** on the lower incomes sleep better maybe.

fliball123 · 18-02-2022 11:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118655316#Comment_118655316

at a ratio of 1:4 why should people who get up and work have less housing available to them than those who don't work? I am not assuming anything it is going on in every parish in every county all over the country its rife with people taking the absolute p1ss and no way to catch out people who are playing the system. I heard a story today of my sister in law , her and her boyfriend saving like crazy to get a gaff, only to be told by a friend how her sister just got a brand new 3 bed house in an area they cant afford for 40 quid a week. Then she described how the boyfriend has moved in and they have more money than they have ever had. But you keep your head buried in the sand its the tail wagging the dog in this country. I also have 2 nieces one done everything the right way - college, worked and worked has no kids and she cant afford a house her younger sister has 3 kids with 2 different dads and she has her current beau moved in with her so creaming off the state and taking half his pay too. Its a joke. We need stricter laws for fathers who should be looking after their offspring financially. The days of the state being baby daddy needs to come to an end as what is happening and what will continue to happen is those who don't bother trying will be the only ones able to afford to have a kid.