Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798835#Comment_118798835

What you have called it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798835#Comment_118798835

If only there wasn't a long legacy of naval and space ships being called Enterprise, in real life...

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826776#Comment_118826776

Pictures of some of which even hang in Archer's quarters.

I always wondered if they had a plan for what NX-07 would gave been called if the series ran long enough.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826580#Comment_118826580

I'd have called it the USS Quantum Leap

edit: and Discovery should have been named the USS Progressive

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826580#Comment_118826580

Anything that wasnt memberberries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118827216#Comment_118827216

Same could be said for calling a ship USS Enterprise NCC-1701D in TNG

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828181#Comment_118828181

Looking back I agree. But I was about 5 when I first saw TNG so didn't really understand enough to get t angry . Also looking back "The Next Generation" is an awful title.

pixelburp

Enterprise started in 2001, sandwiched between the Insurrection and Nemesis films, the TNG series only finished < 10 year and Trek still very much a mainstay of mainstream telly. I dunno if I'd call the show a play for nostalgia TBH - even if it was "fan service" in other aspects. Trek was still an active, relatively healthy property, even if we were about to hit the twilight of that relevance.

Now, this show is for sure playing into the warm fuzzies of nostalgia; the only question is if its execution is good enough that it doesn't really matter. The casting of Kirk and a descendant of Khan bodes ill, that it'll be so busy trying for that fan masturbation angle it'll forget to tell its own story.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828465#Comment_118828465

Thing is it will only think it is trying for fan masturbation by dropping names like Disco does. It will probably pss off most fans because they will have no clue about the timeline.

They can't even get simple nostalgia right.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828356#Comment_118828356

I suppose it depends on what context you are looking at the title in. If it's tgat this was supposed to be a new young crew then yes OK. Buy I think the Next Generation was more aimed at the next generation of trek fans watching it than the actual crew of the show if you get me.

Evade

I'm not even sure Enterprise was really trying to trade on nostalgia, it technically wasn't even called Star Trek until season three.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828669#Comment_118828669

It just all sounds very 80/90s Saved by the Bell:The New Class.

We are all so used to it now it sounds fine but I wouldn't be calling a show something like that now.

eadrom

Ah, the title was fine at the time. Would be fine now too, I think. It was the next generation of crew, of ship, and of time (~100 years later). Not the most imaginative of title but it did what it says on the tin.

And as Evade points out, 'Enterprise' didn't even have 'Star Trek' in the title until season 3. If anything it went too far in the other direction and didn't really feel connected to Star Trek at all, trying to appeal to some wider audience which never really worked out.

One thing that does stand out for me is how incredibly little any of the original 5 Star Trek series referred back to their predecessors. Aside from first-episode cameos (old-man McCoy in TNG, Picard in DS9, Quark in Voyager), and TNG's second episode Naked Now being a bit of a follow up to Naked Time, there was barely a reference to TOS in any of these. Certainly no descendants of old crew or bit-characters, or previously-unmentioned siblings of Spock. It felt like the production teams were determined to make the shows stand on the own feet, and they did.

Now, everyone is related to someone, or every show has a character we loved 30 years ago. Can't go an episode without mentioning Spock or Data or Picard or the Voyager or whatever. A descendant of bloody Khan for gods sake.

Could have called TNG "Star Trek: More Star Trek" for all it mattered. The show itself made the effort to stand apart.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118829245#Comment_118829245

I agree about the everyone related thing which annoys me. But DS9 did have O'Brien and Kira was written as Ro but scheduling got in the way. Also later had Worf obviously. Tom Paris was supposed to be Locarno but royalties got in the way. But outside Worf they were bit characters in their first show and certainly nothing as annoying as Sisco being Wesley's brother flying about in the U.S.S Spock.

eadrom

Yeah, fair point. I forgot about O'Brien actually. I guess the good writing, acting, and character development got in the way of that being a problem.

Sure maybe the same will be true for the Khan's great-great-great-great granddaughter or whoever she is. But lolz, no it won't.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118829465#Comment_118829465

The first paragraph is the one true gospel. It doesn't even need all those things just some.

I have recently loved Picard, Snowpiercer and Expanse and they all had problems I was willing to overlook because it had enough of the other stuff.

It's why I have no time for the whataboutery from Disco fans.

ilovesmybrick

Yeah, the writing, acting and character development is the big weakness of Discovery. Pity those are the fundamentals of TV!

The whataboutery from Disco fans is quite infuriating. Snowpiercer is actually a good example. The entire story is literally about the end of the human race, which is every season of discovery, and the premise is f**king bonkers, but the characters, even those I'm really growing to dislike (cough Layton) have some sense of growth, forward momentum, and development. And in three seasons I know most of their names, motivations, and behaviours. It's a reasonably solid mid-range sci fi show, though probably not one I will rewatch when it's done.

Discovery has decent visuals. But after four seasons it's still a paint by numbers sci fi show that uses pretty much the same plot devices every season to get to the same ending, every season. There has been no character development to speak of, and you have little to no sense of the universe they inhabit. Snowpierce (and Picard) aren't exactly subtle about their commentary on contemporary events. Snowpiercer is literally on a train traversing the frozen wasteland of humanity, but there is never the sense that something happens because it ticks another progressive box. There is a reason, within the show, for why these things happen, whether be it due to character development or being a fundamental plot point. While it's not subtle, it's also not hamfisted, which is how Discovery does everything. Because of the poor writing, acting, and character development.

pixelburp

Snowpiercer is also a good example of how a few small changes turned a fairly mediocre show into something closer to Must Watch TV. Not wholesale changes, but a switch in the dynamic to push characters in more interesting directions.

The big difference though between the two shows is quite simple: the premise is simply window dressing to pitch an ensemble of clearly-defined characters against each other. Discovery has a premise, and one character, and some set-pieces, and that's it. It talks about its themes - Snowpiercer lives them.

AMKC

I have never heard of Snowpiercer. Is it out long?

ilovesmybrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118831567#Comment_118831567

Few years, only on season 3 (10 episode seasons). It's based on the film from a few years back and comic before that. If you get over the idea that the last of humanity survive a global ice age by circling the globe on a train you'll be grand! It's a pretty decent mid tier sci fi series. All on Netflix.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118831590#Comment_118831590

There are a fair few bits to "get over" but it's great fun all the same

pixelburp

It should be repeated that the movie is also well worth a watch, and definitely the better beast: it's directed by Bong Joon-ho, he who directed Parasite and leans way more into the surreal absurdities of the entire concept and location. If nothing else it's a masterclass of direction; the now defunct Every Frame a Painting YT channel did a fantastic breakdown of how well the film was directed (watch out though, it's INCREDIBLY spoiler-driven)

https://youtu.be/X05TDsoSg2Y

AMKC

I just noticed on You-Tube lots of small teaser trailers for SNW.

Here is one,

https://youtu.be/fSiS7VuGT5c

Not too sure if I am happy with that or that.

There is more to come I would say.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118854837#Comment_118854837

hopefully they dont do the stupid JJ romance with Spock

pixelburp

I found one too for La'an Singh ... they're both flippant but I'll say one thing: both looked fun compared with the tedious over-earnestness of Discovery. I'd be the first to shít on the JJ movies, and my patience for quippy dialogue has shrunk considerably in my old age ... but some simple Space Adventure would be a palette cleanser at this stage.

Evade

37? In a row??

But it does look kid of fun I just hope it's not completely nonsensical.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118855020#Comment_118855020

Yep here it is,

https://youtu.be/9NaUvyEuOIc

I wonder who is next?

So that's Uhura his communication officer and Laan the security officer. All we need now is number 1 aka Cammander, helm, navigation officers, the chief Engineer and the Doctor.

Would that be the full crew I wonder?

What does Uhuras history say about her? I always assumed Enterprise was her first ship but maybe not.

I am really interested to see who the chief Engineer will be.

pixelburp

Another trailer, featuring Hemmer, the engineer; maybe we're seeing everything from the pilot but bit by bit this is showing hints of being far more fun and charismatic than the frequently dour other live-action Treks:

https://youtu.be/rYQ3CbkTHwk

pixelburp

Two more appeared about Dr. M'Benga & Ortegas, the pilot; it's like they're going out of their way to emphasise / reassure this is going to be an ensemble show (perhaps as a counter to the persistent criticism of Discovery).

https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1509485657357369347

https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1509168669405810698

Evade

I thought Star Trek had finally put the misuse of the term flagship behind them but now the Enterprise was one too.

Sassy pilot, she even has the standard haircut, seems like she'll get annoying quickly if the trailer is her entire personality. I was about to post that she seems vey old for an ensign but she's a lieutenant commander.