The Canada Convoy

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611488#Comment_118611488

Not sure if parody or real

Frank Bullitt

If anyone REALLY thinks the restrictions are being lifted because of the truckers, you need to serious have a word with yourself.

People who piss in bottles and throw them out the window and take dumps in snowbanks...yeah, the government will listen to them. Christ.

Restrictions were always going to be lifted, regardless of truckers driving around. All they are currently doing now with blocking the boarder is holing up money coming in and out of the country. Fair play, morons.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612101#Comment_118612101

Illegally obstructing traffic and blocking roads is perfectly fine according to a handful of people here didn't you know. Once you are a protester it suddenly makes it okay.

Anyway it's not like people are being murdered, so against that bar, it's "fine". And someone once saw a protest blocking one road here, so can't argue with that.

Dr. Greenthumb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612275#Comment_118612275

Taking away people rights that are enshrined in a document that's core to the law in Canada is the main issue for many Canadians. The media will try and portray the protesters as a small minority but they are support by a large minority of Canadian society. To put this in context, about the same percentage of people support the convoy as voted for the liberals in the last election. Is it ok for a leader of a country to just ignore the voices / concerns of a third of it's population when a third of the population was all they needed to get back into power? To not even talk with them but instead hides when they arrive and then walks out of parliament when thing are not going his way.

If you are one of those that trivializes people right to freedom check out Brian Peckford's speech at the protest, the last surviving member of the team that drafted the Canadian Charter of Rights, and how he outlines how a lot of the measures implemented across the country were illegal and in contradiction to the Charter of Rights.

Supporting the government of Canada in this is supporting the political classes right to rip up constitutional laws whenever it suits them without any proper due process. For people that think Trudeau is a great leader I'd imagine you don't live in Canada, it's shocking how poor a leader he is.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612398#Comment_118612398

Give me a break.

This isn't about freedom, it is about privilege, plain and simple. How can a bunch of people, driving around in 50,000 dollar GMC trucks, or Ford F150s say they don't have freedom, while they sip from their starbucks cup or Tim Hortans? Nothing but a bunch of entitle rednecks pissed off that they have lost some of that privilege.

It works me up so much when you see how badly the first nations and indigenous are and have been treat compared to this. They are treated far more aggressively than these truckers ever were, they don't even have the opportunity to get a bank loan to buy some of the vehicles that are in this protest at all.

So, before you start barking on about freedom, it has never been about that. This convoy has backers that are known associates to right wing and Christian groups in Alberta and America. The freedom thing is a clever marketing ploy to get the numbers up.

Dr. Greenthumb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612439#Comment_118612439

Well clearly you know the thoughts of all the Canadians that support this protest.

Do you support the government of Canada breaking what is set out within the Charter of Rights? Is that ok, what if the Irish government started just ripping out pieces of the constitution without going through the referendum process, would you be ok with that? There's what you perceive as freedom and then there's freedom as enshrined in the Charter of Rights, the reason a Charter like that is required is so an emotional response such as your own does not get to trump the rights of the larger population.

I'm not sure what the treatment of the indigenous has to do with this, but it was government laws and institutions that ripped the indigenous culture to pieces. Not all indigenous are struggling and not all of it is due to the government or outside forces, there's also a lot of corruption within the tribes. A huge amount of money is provided to the indigenous as well as free education but that is a different discussion completely and in no way relevant to the convoy.

The media ploy to turn this into a simplistic right vs left, conservative vs liberal is a clever move to drive their viewership and clicks up.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612490#Comment_118612490

Well clearly you know more than I do, right?

The trucker convoy is a minority, even 90% of truckers are vaccinated. No one likes the restrictions, but hate to break it to you, but we are still in a pandemic. Most of the population are going along with their lives as normal as can be, the loud truckers speak for a minority in that they make the most noise and put the weirdest crap on the their cars like "open up Canada" when it is very open, you can travel and do things, but there are procedures in place, and they are there for safety reasons.

You can use the "what if" stuff all you want, but how about IF that happens then I will talk about it, keep the hypotheticals, thanks. No one is restricted from doing anything in Canada, as long as they follow the rules.

Don't like showing a vaccine passport? Then stay home and order food. Don't like having to take a PCR to travel? Then don't travel.

You already need a drivers licence to drive, a passport to travel and guess what in some cases you need a vaccine, for children to get into daycare in Canada for example.

My reference to the treatment of indigenous shows the complete lack of understanding of what freedom is in Canada, especially to the truckers who think they have no freedom, when it is just their lack of privilege that is on hold currently. No one has said it will be forever either, but they rant and rave like it will be, such an informed position. Indigenous continue to be oppressed here in Canada, through taking land or building pipelines on it. If that was happening to the truckers, then they can say their freedoms are being hit. Until then, they can go get in their thousands of dollars trucks are drive around. Thankfully it was a very small amount of them here in Vancouver at the weekend, so again, a very vocal minority, kicking and screaming.

Dr. Greenthumb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612723#Comment_118612723

Never said I know more than you, but I don't purport to know the mind of everyone that supports the protest.

You're failing to understand the point I'm making, there is no "what if", they are and have been putting in restrictions that contradict the Charter of Rights. They have limited free movement, right to work and earn a living and now as well as they are talking about breaking up the protest and threatening arrest, the right to peaceful assembly and expression. I mean if the guy that drafted the paper is rallying against the government in defence of the Charter I think that's quite telling. You can't just change these rights.

So truckers can't complain about their rights because another subset of society has "less" rights? The issue is a precedent has been set by the governments actions, that should not be allowed or the strength of the Charter and constitution is at risk. If it was the indigenous blocking up Ottawa due to an infringement of their rights I would support it too.

Not sure what the value of their trucks have to do about anything, their a tool of their trade and I'm sure are paid back over a significant amount of time, or do you think they are all millionaires doing it as a hobby? I may be wrong but you seem to have an opinion on this subject based on feelings and a dislike for truckers in general, there should be no feelings when it comes to protecting the constitution the country is based.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607335#Comment_118607335

That sounds pretty delusional, restrictions are being lifted everywhere - but not because some loonies are honking their horns on the street. But at least they can now pretend they "won" and fought for "freedom" and had the "backing of the people".

Real Donald Trump

Good to see the far right, Trumpers, racists, Charlottesville mob truckers have won the battle against the mandates 🤣

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612870#Comment_118612870

There is nothing I can see in the Charter that the current restrictions go against. So there is a big "what if" on your part because you are picking things out of the sky there. The right to peaceful protest? Nothing about what the truckers are doing is peaceful, it is belligerent and loud, that is why a judge had to tell them to stop due to the noise pollution it was creating, imagine living near that for a brief second there.

Truckers can complain all they want, but it again has nothing to do with freedom, it is their privilege that is hurt, so they can cry me a river. I am not talking about the big trucks that they are using to block the roads (although they again cost a fortune, some lack of freedom there).

I have no ill feelings to the truckers at all, in general I find this cohort of society and the bangwagoners it brings along with them very stupid in general. They have no real evidence or reason for what they protest again, it is just something they can all sing along to. They are not protecting anything other than their own privilege (I am saying this a lot so you can follow along).

None, I repeat NONE, of their fundamental rights are being infringed upon, and just so you aware of what they are: freedom of conscience and religion; freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; freedom of peaceful assembly; and freedom of association.

You tell me how they are being infringed upon, please.

breezy1985

Why has this trucker thing become the latest hill to die on.

I'm suddenly seeing people who couldn't find Ottawa on a map go on about this like Trudeau is their life long nemesis.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tfi-earnings-1.6344123?cmp=rss

"Vaccination at TFI is not an issue at all," he told analysts on a conference call Tuesday.

"We have a few drivers that still say no, but what we do with them is we just keep them in Canada," he said. It's a strategy adopted by several large transport outfits but less available to smaller ones."

...that lack of freedom, god bless their souls.

Dr. Greenthumb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118613560#Comment_118613560

lol

I mean you must know better than Brain Peckford who details in his speech in support of the convoy all the areas of the Charter they are breaking. You may think that you can travel freely as long as you have proof of vaccine, so no issue, right? We'll restricting travel within Canada to its inhabitants in any way goes against the Charter. Stopping people from working during lock downs goes against the Charter, preventing them from working for not being vaccinated goes against the Charter. You opinion is based on your ideology, unfortunately your ideology does fit with the Charter. It's not your view of what freedom means is that which is defined in the Charter of Rights that was brought in to place to protect everyone's right, not just those that agree with the government.

You keep referring to the price of the trucks as if these guys are all loaded. It does amuse me to see you calling the truckers privileged and entitled while you then look down on them as stupid.

I don't believe you understand the Charter of Rights and that is proven by your copy and paste from google. They are the main fundamental rights but there's a lot more to it than that such as mobility rights, equality rights, rights to security of your own body etc. Maybe give it a read before you make such bold statements like "just so you aware of what they are", as you clearly don't have a notion of what the Charter contains.

NSAman

Support the truckers 100%.

Trudy is toast. He is a useless “leader” who has hid from everything. Nothing wrong with peaceful protest, yet political class runs from ordinary Canadians protesting in a peaceful and supported manner? Says it all really!

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118613865#Comment_118613865

I have asked YOU to point out in the charter, which you haven't.

I live in Canada, travel right now in Canada is not restricted at all, you can fly, drive, swim, walk anywhere you want as we speak.. Hence why the trucking company who have drivers who won't go across the boarder just get given work in Canada, so yes, they are free to travel anywhere they want. And even when things were very bad a year ago, travel was only restricted for a brief period and for certain circumstances, truckers were not because they were able to do it for work, so again, you are wrong on that one. Peckford also claims that this mandate “effectively bans Canadians who have chosen not to receive an experimental medical treatment” from international travel. Experimental, sounds like he has his finger on the pulse with that claim.It is backed up by large scale scientific research and data, he can kiss my ass with that.

I listed the basics of the charter, none of them are being infringed on. You ran off to find an article by a politician who I am sure you never heard of before the past week to try make a point, and you've failed.

I am free to call anyone stupid, especially if what they are claiming just isn't right or based in the real world. I saw plenty of "No 5G in my body" signs and references to Bill Gates here on Saturday, so yes, they are dumb as ****.

My copy and paste from google comes from the Justice Laws website of Canada...the one that is run BY the government of Canada, you can read it here seeing as you haven't yourself -

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-12.html

I listed the basic ones for you, the ones you said were being infringed upon, so I will ask you again, how are they?

You are trying to create some sort of oppression, there isn't.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118613889#Comment_118613889

Peaceful isn't holding down truck horns 24/7.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118613947#Comment_118613947

Re travel in Canada..isn't there a vaccine mandate for all public transport, including planes and trains? So people who aren't vaccinated aren't really free to travel anywhere they want are they? Unless they can walk, swim or drive for hundreds or thousands of miles, they can't travel that far with ease. They can't even leave the country.

silverharp

Brand is frighteningly good at unpacking an issue

https://youtu.be/3PghoRUr-wo

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612398#Comment_118612398

First of all, there's a pandemic. Unvaccinated people put others at increased risk. Unmasked people put others at increased risk. They selfishly affect other people's rights in order to support their own ignorant views. They conflate common sense measures to reduce a virus with some sort of "assault on their freedoms". These types of morons have been around since day 1 protesting every measure possible, we've had them here in this country as well, this is just another extension of that.

Secondly, this is an absolutely tiny minority of truck-drivers (several hundred out of over 300,000 in the country). The overwhelmingly majority of whom are vaccinated, the truck-drivers associations don't support the activities of these protesters, the majority of people in Canada don't support them. What they are doing is illegal, three-quarters of businesses in downtown Ottawa have been hit by this, companies have had to shut down production, people are potentially going to lose their jobs. A couple of hundred truckers have decided they don't want to lose their jobs, but it's okay if they cause others to lose theirs. Okay.

There have been multiple reports of protesters going into restaurants and businesses without masks and yelling at others to remove theirs. Wearing a piece of cloth to reduce the spread of an infectious disease is infringing their rights to what exactly? A right to increase the risk of infection? I have at-risk family members, people like that can **** right off.

Despite all that, if these people want to protest, I fully support it. Peaceful protest. If flat-earthers want to protest NASA, we may think they are fruitcakes, but they have a right to protest peacefully. They don't have a "right" to illegally block motorways and border-crossings and cause mass disruption, grossly infringing other people's rights, freedoms and jobs.

The measures have impacted everyone, but most normal people can understand why the measures are there. There will always be a fringe who don't get any of this, they think it's about them, that a measure designed to protect others puts them at slight discomfort, so it's a big attack on their freedoms, it's "tyranny" or whatever. Morons.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118613947#Comment_118613947

As far as I know Canada is still rather restrictive regarding flying into the country. One PCR test, not older than 74 or 72 hours? and then another test upon arrival. Endless queues due to testing requirements at Pearson airport upon arrival, making the risk of infection even higher.

Also then there were issues that they mandated that everyone stays in an overpriced accomodation ( something like $2000 or $3000) for 3 days regardless which country they came from, and wait for test results,- but that has been abolished. But still this is history now, but it made one feel as being a "Persona non Grata" as a Canadian citizen in my own country, also the mandatory hotel stay would have been legally in contravention with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Home isolation and home quarantine yes, but the Charter of Rights and Freedoms can't dictate where this is going to be for a returning citizen.

The travel restrictions were and are still very unrealistic. The Canadian government should give the freedom back to those who are tripple vaccinated, without any extra forms to fill out, ArriveCan-Apps or tests. Even the UK handled this matter better and lifted restrictions sooner.

But again, that's mostly gone now, it's history, and it certainly doesn't justify what the truckers are doing.

I believe that the unvaccinated truckers are very much a small minority, and also these kind of convoys are also the work of some organization close to Donald Trump, QAnon and other conspiracy theory friends and Nazi-Style flags also should have no place in Canada.

Ultimately, I think Trudeau should bring in the military to have these convoys removed. They are hurting Canada and Canada's economy.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611488#Comment_118611488

The initial lockdown was not an idiotic decision to make, given the context.

Subsequent increases in restrictions - hard to know.

Legally mandated vaccination - not good in almost any context.

Dr. Greenthumb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118613947#Comment_118613947

You do like to put word in people mouth, don't you.

I know what's in the Charter, it would take you 10 minutes to get your head around it but you just pick the top items from a google search that covers a portion of it. If you took them from that website, you could have scrolled down slightly and arrive at mobility rights, but you didn't take it from there originally, you took it from the google front page. I'm not here to educate you, you can do that yourself but you don't seem to want to.

I don't think I posted any article did I? I mentioned Brian Peckford's speech on the protest and that he's more likely to understand the nuances of the Charter more than you. You clearly don't believe so.

You've posted a lot of you opinion on here, you have clear disdain for the truckers and those that support them which is a third of the country. I've made my point pretty clear, we're getting into repetition now so I'll leave it to you. Best of luck. I hope this protest comes to an amicable ending without any escalation.

Dr. Greenthumb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118614895#Comment_118614895

You've responded to my post with a bunch of points that bear nothing to the content of my post. I've clarified my position, it's a breach of the Charter of Rights. A third of the population of Canada support them which is the same amount that voted for the Liberals when they got back into government. Funny how on one hand that third of the population are pariahs in your view and on the other it lets you rule the country.

As I said in my previous post we're getting into repetition here and I've no interest in arguing opinions which are clearly set in stone.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118616484#Comment_118616484

Okay, a third of the country support them, meaning two-thirds don't. That's a majority.

It's not a breach of rights, that's BS, Canada has had vaccine requirements before, during Smallpox, and then early in the 20th century, e.g. Toronto medical school, all students had to be vaccinated. In the 70's, many Canadian provinces had mandatory vaccination programs.

What next, would you support that surgeons block roads because they don't want to wear masks during surgery? pilots block airports because don't want to take the mandatory medical?

This rights stuff is complete nonsense, it's a pandemic, we have had vaccine requirements all over the world. We've had vaccine requirements for decades (e.g. Yellow Fever).

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118614185#Comment_118614185

No, I flew to Toronto recently with no need to show a vaccine cert, the only mandate for public transport is to wear a mask. Same with the ferries in BC as well. To leave the country, it depends on what country you are going to and their rules, like entering Ireland at Christmas you needed proof.

Nothing needed for internal travel at all. So yes, they we can travel with ease.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118616431#Comment_118616431

What I can gather from Peckfrod is that I have a much better grasp of science than he does, that isn't hard when he spouts rubbish of experimental vaccines and so forth, the words of an imbecile.

As I have said, and pointed out to you a few times, nothing in the charter is being infringed upon. Canada has rules, regardless of vaccination or otherwise. Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada. and then its followed up by The rights specified in subsection (2) are subject to any laws or practices of general application in force in a province other than those that discriminate among persons primarily on the basis of province of present or previous residence; and any laws providing for reasonable residency requirements as a qualification for the receipt of publicly provided social services.

Glad I could help you understand things better though, you didn't want to read the charter so there are the highlights for you now. Peckford is free to say what he wants, I am free to call him an idiot for what he is saying, because it is not based in the real world.

Take care.

Dohnjoe

Doug Ford has just made it official, 100k fine and/or 1 year in prison for those illegally blocking ports, borders, airports, major motorways

And trucking licenses might be stripped.

bertiebomber

Patronizing **** numpties the only correct thought process, is your thought process any one who veers off that thought is a CT or an idiot or a trumpian or a red neck. Listen to yourselves for a minute and accept that all people will never agree.

"When debate is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser" Socrates

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617415#Comment_118617415

But you did talk about conspiracy theories. They is why people believe you are a conspiracy theorist.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615226#Comment_118615226

Ultimately, I think Trudeau should bring in the military to have these convoys removed. They are hurting Canada and Canada's economy.

Too much risk. Reports are some of them are armed, it would just take one simpleton to open fire and lets just say it wouldn't end well.

bertiebomber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617504#Comment_118617504

"When debate is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser" Socrates

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617684#Comment_118617684

I think you need to go back and read the first few pages again rather than quote out of context at me. Stating a fact is not slander. You were pushing conspiracy theories. When debate is lost nonsense is the tool of the loser.

Billy Mays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617684#Comment_118617684

Fake quotes from Socrates now 🤣

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617723#Comment_118617723

Maybe Socrates the footballer said it.

bertiebomber

yes indeed but a good quote whoever said it !

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617723#Comment_118617723

Are you sure?

Eric Trump tweeted it, surely he would have fact checked it.

pjohnson

"Using marks of quotation shows that the quotes is true" ~ Lionel Ronaldo 1789

bertiebomber

bertiebomber

the moon picture is for you guys !!

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617770#Comment_118617770

Well the fact a Trump tweeted it means theres a 97% chance its scutter.

But the Trump disciples will believe and preach the word of the Lord.

pjohnson

Fighting Tao

I love the maturity of CT’ists. It’s the same on the CT forum. Throw a hissy fit, misquote, post nonsense, then memes…..finally it usually ends up with name calling and a dramatic fake exit.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617778#Comment_118617778

One of Platos finest works wouldn't you agree?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617804#Comment_118617804

Has he started calling everyone else a "paid poster" yet?

bertiebomber

Get over yourselves lads you are soo serious about your facts & figures, bore-fest lighten up, and enjoy life you could be dead tomorrow.....look at that young lad 12 years old dead in Adare be real . So what if you think i am an asshole. So be it. I think someone else is an asshole its a pyramid of judgement assholes on every angle have a good weekend.

And like that...pfft...he's gone.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118618102#Comment_118618102

Called it! He’ll probably be back though.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617520#Comment_118617520

Agreed.

But they were also armed, back in the days of the October crisis.

However I think by now everyone has discontent with the Canadian government on handling the Corona crisis, and that includes Trudeau calling an early election in the middle of the crisis, in hopes of gaining more seats, in reality gaining nothing, but at a cost to the Canadian taxpayer.... I think the whole early election cost around 600 Million.

Also, I think Canada should finally open up the borders to fully vaccinated travellers without any ifs, buts or maybes, forms or ArriveCanada Apps. Canadian Passport, Vaccination certificate with QR code, and one should be done.

No need for artificially creating endless queues at Pearson airport and risks of getting infected.

But this has hardly anything to do with the convoy, - but again, it's my personal discontent.

Both the British and the Irish governments handled themselves better in the pandemic.

bertiebomber

I aint gone but i am bored with thread, almost 500 comments all emanating from my little starter loads of arguments and discourse brilliant . Hmmm what will i start next to get the vocal liberals all ganging up on me again!! I am not sure i will have a think HONK HONK .....