DF Commission Report

jonnybigwallet

Good post Roadie!

purplepanda

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/lend-lease-for-ukraine-us-revives-wwii-anti-hitler-policy-to-defeat-putin/

So it's in effect a new American 21st century Lend Lease bill for Ukraine & NATO / Europe, does this include Moldava, Georgia & other neutral nations & could even Ireland also get some financial aid to upgrade it's military capability, in addition to the planned defence budget increases?

I'd suggest that the North Western Atlantic Ocean approaches are certainly vulnerable & the cost for proper defence for this region is beyond Ireland's ability to contribute even with a similar military budget to other European nations such as Sweden or Finland spend.

So either raise extra taxes from sectors such as those international businesses, including prominent American & European multinationals, that pay low rates on their profits in Ireland, possibly combined with air travel charges for tourist passengers such as countries like Egypt or Turkey always charge, perhaps €10-15 per return flight.

Perhaps combined with some Lend Lease financial aid as above & help from EU & NATO partners countries including Britain.

Denmark & Portugal have a balanced military between land, sea & air forces, I would suggest they are the most similar nations to Ireland in terms of strategic location. I recall reading recently, maybe in was in the Defence Commission report that a 6:2:2: ratio of Army, Naval & Air force would be ideal for Ireland.

As for the cost, it should be also noted that Defence spending was drastically reduced in real terms accounting for inflation, from the late '90's & especially since the 2008 recession crisis. In effect what the DF commission report recommends s the restoration of an adequate military budget, not a massive increase as recently portrayed by hard left politicians & their agenda.

sparky42

At the Arbor Hill event today Martin basically repeated publicly what he was saying to Ógra FF, so I guess we now have to wait and see what Coveney brings to the table in June?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908843#Comment_118908843

Maybe I missed it (apologies if I did), but from that all it says is before the Summer Recess, which has been flagged as the June Cabinet meeting (as mentioned by Coveney and others), even with the leg work being done as suggested in that post, I don't see anything to suggest something sooner?

roadmaster

Is the HSE and the Air Corps about to breakup?

Etender for HEMS based out of Cork. Cant see there being two seperate providers of this service in the long run

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/211456/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118909578#Comment_118909578

There’s already the charity one operating in Cork/Munster?

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118910498#Comment_118910498

Going by that tender there services will no longer be needed

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118910571#Comment_118910571

Indeed, have they run into financial issues or something? Seem to remember the Commission Report suggesting a second helicopter but this seems different.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118910800#Comment_118910800

If they have a private contactor service for the south i caan only see them doing the same for the north eventually maybe based out of Knock?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118910837#Comment_118910837

I doubt it will go to the house before recess, I’m more expecting it to go to cabinet and then spend the summer recess arguing with DOD and Finance and it be voted on by the time of the budget in October, maybe it happens in May but no earlier than that I would think.

donvito99

https://www.defencetalk.com/military/forums/t/nzdf-general-discussion-thread.6137/page-345#post-403002

Not sure where to post, but it is rumoured (link) that 20-30 NZLAVs have been sold and to be refurbished to this end.

Is there any Irish RFP that tallies with this kind of acquisition?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118912431#Comment_118912431

Not really off the top of my head, isn’t the only current/future procurement that we know of for the RG32s? The NZLAVs would be a whole other animal.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118912547#Comment_118912547

We may get full value for the ship and get them to throw in there fleet of NH90s as well

sparky42

Bit more from Coveney regarding the next steps (and why it's going to be a while anyway), though he's being slightly optimistic when he suggests the underinvestment only dates to the 1970's:

The world is living through a “far more unpredictable and unstable security environment” and Ireland needs to respond to that, Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence Simon Coveney has said.

However, Mr Coveney also cautioned against a “knee-jerk reaction” to the war in Ukraine in terms of the State’s defence and security provision.

The Minister was speaking at the Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence on Tuesday, which was considering legislation to provide for members of the Military Police to take and use DNA samples to investigate crimes within the Defence Forces.

The Defence Forces (Evidence) Bill 2019 also will establish a DNA (Military Police) Database System, to be administered by Forensic Science Ireland, to hold DNA profiles generated from samples.

Responding to questions from Sinn Féin TD John Brady, Mr Coveney said he wanted to bring a paper to the Government in response to the Commission on the Defence Forces in June.

The commission published its final report earlier this year and found that the current Defence Forces’ capacity would leave the country without a credible military capability to protect Ireland.

Mr Coveney said the context in which the commission’s report was being considered had changed in relation to the war in Ukraine.

“Every country in the European Union is now looking again at defence provision and security issues,” he said.

“I don’t think we should have a knee-jerk reaction in that regard but I certainly think we are living in a far more unpredictable and unstable security environment, not just on this continent but globally and I think we need to respond to that.”

Mr Coveney said the vast majority of the commission’s recommendations would cost money and party leaders and Government Ministers had to be consulted to ensure that “what I bring to Government is something that’s supported”.

“There will be a lot of work on that over the next six to eight weeks before we actually bring a report to Government,” he said.

He said the report would then be debated in the Dáil and Seanad, and will be brought before the Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence.

Mr Coveney said there had been “decades of underinvestment in defence infrastructure” in Ireland by consecutive governments that dated back to the 1970s.

“We need to correct that. We can’t do it overnight. Even if we could do it – financially – overnight, the Defence Forces wouldn’t be able to respond to a dramatic increase in financial resourcing in one or two years,” he added.

In relation to the Defence Forces (Evidence) Bill 2019, he said he looked forward to “hopefully getting this legislation into law before the summer recess”.

Mr Coveney said he believed no political party had an issue with the legislation, adding: “It is about ensuring that there are appropriate mechanisms to investigate crimes within the military system.”

Manic Moran

Is not DNA taken from all soldiers by default? It’s used for identification of battle casualties in our case (if you just find a leg, for example), but I guess criminal investigation would be a useful side effect.

roadmaster

17 Acres have come up for sale next to Gormanstown camp. Would the DF be worth looking at it to secure land around the base

donvito99

Chile took the NZLAVs.

sparky42

I posted an earlier version of this in the interesting article thread but the IT has updated it, and yeah it’s pretty much the LoA2 increase of €500 million, but apparently this is a huge amount of money that will take many years to add in (let’s ignore how much other departments get in supplementary budgets, or how much DOD will return unspent anyway), so maybe the MRV gets ordered finally, a couple more helicopters, radar, new vehicles and maybe a transport capability…

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-s-defence-spending-set-to-rise-by-at-least-50-says-coveney-1.4864427

donvito99

Not quite sure how a humanitarian aid vessel, transport aircraft and more AW139s protects the state, but it's a start...

tippilot

Unless factored for inflation LOA 2 will hardly maintain the status quo.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991006#Comment_118991006

Like I said, first step is to stop DOD from returning any increase unspent, you know they will want to.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118990967#Comment_118990967

The MRV, transport does increase the capabilities though, limited as they might be, hell maybe someone could even manage to order helicopters that are capable of operating outside of Ireland?

tippilot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991018#Comment_118991018

It would be a start. This "large increase" that will take "years to implement" line smacks of a Yes, Minister type pining for a change of government.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991042#Comment_118991042

It does doesn't it, I mean even just a basic €100 million a year matched with Inflation growth would take only 5 years, is anyone seriously going to suggest that couldn't be managed? Hell just fixing conditions would eat a couple of years of that growth before you even touch new hardware contracts.

Leonidas BL

https://twitter.com/StiofainR/status/1519793860666445824?s=20&t=pvMpjTFlV07mxS3wYf1RPA

Neutral my hole 😅

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991087#Comment_118991087

Even if we were, do you think it would stop them? Hell they reportedly flew a couple of nukes through Swedish airspace recently.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993275#Comment_118993275

They’ve been careful to limit the threat to the strategic bombers, most likely as they are almost irreplaceable for Russia so there’s a chance. Hell maybe they could do the DF a favour and turn up a lot when Coveney is presenting his proposals to Cabinet, didn’t hurt to get attention in February.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993231#Comment_118993231

Just wait until they might get asked to go to sea again…

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993275#Comment_118993275

They must be in bad shape the fact they havent flown the western flank of europe since the start of the war to just be a pest even

sparky42

The latest from the IT:

An increase in military spending as recommended by the recent Commission on the Defence Forces is unlikely to be completed until at least 2025.

Last February the commission reported that the Defence Forces were not currently capable of credibly defending the country against attack, and put forward various proposals for increased funding.

The most ambitious proposals, which it called Level of Ambition 3, called for a three-fold increase in defence spending, bringing it to €3 billion a year and roughly in line with other small European countries.

It also put forward in intermediate proposal, Level of Ambition 2, which would address urgent capability gaps and allow for some limited upgrades. Minister for Defence Simon Coveney has said he will deliver his recommendation to Cabinet next month.

Defence sources said the option currently being considered is a “Level of Ambition 2.5”. The Minister would recommend adopting most, if not all, of the recommendations in Level of Ambition 2, while picking some of those laid out in the most ambitious proposal.

This would see the Defence Forces receiving hugely increased cyber capabilities and a primary radar system which would allow it to monitor effectively Irish skies for the first time.

It would also receive increased air lift capacity, improved armoured personnel carriers and an increase in numbers in the Naval Service to allow ships to spend more time at sea.

However, the purchase of a squadron of jet fighters, as recommended in Level of Ambition 3, is not being considered, it is understood. This would mean Britain’s RAF would still be responsible for responding to any airborne incursion over Ireland.

The proposals would cost between €600 million and €1 billion extra a year, it was estimated.

The plan is to gradually ramp up defence spending over the next several years. Sources said it will be at least 2025 before this funding level is achieved.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/increase-in-defence-spending-likely-to-take-at-least-three-years-1.4866904