DF Commission Report

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119231761#Comment_119231761

The only reason i mention it is i spoke with a former colleague at the weekend an he had said there was talk around the political circles in the town about it happening. Apperently many people in the town still feel bitter over the barracks closing

An as for the two ministers the only logic would be votes as they could say they brought 300 jobs back to the town in time for the next election

As stupid as things may seem anything is possabile with the people we elected in this country

roadmaster

It looks like the Days of Gormanston may actually be over in the long term . I taught the port for Bremore was pie in the sky stuff but engineering and planning teams have just being appointed

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119265360#Comment_119265360

Didn't think Bremore was going to impact the Ranges. Thought it was on Bremore point, with equal distance to Balbriggan and Gormanstown exits on the M1.

Wayback Machine (archive.org)

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119265681#Comment_119265681

Nope they want every CM of gormanston

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2021-11-18/88/

jonnybigwallet

Ideal spot for a new facility for Air and Sea forces. Refurbish the runway and airfield, complete with bomb proof shelters for the new fighter jets and build a port facility for the East Coast naval detachment, capable of handling larger ships in the frigate/ destroyer range and larger for visiting aircraft carriers etc.

jonnybigwallet

Would generate a ton in employment and be a great economic benefit for the area going forward.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119265903#Comment_119265903

But where will we put our nuclear submarines?🙄

jonnybigwallet

We're not getting any. The best fit for our requirements is a couple of them Smaller German subs which can operate in littoral waters as well as deep sea. Not needed straight away.

First up is to upgrade the 4 OPVS on a phased basis as they come up for quarter life heavy maintenance/ refit.

Next is acquiring a decent frigate with flexibility to do non military roles as well.

Next is acquiring 2 meko 100 corvettes or similar.

sparky42

Coveney in Defence Questions seems to indicated within the next two weeks for the recommendations, guessing from the answer getting sign off from the Cabinet is still the sticking point. Also seems the first confirmation that the NS is getting rebranded, presuming the AC will get renamed as well.

jonnybigwallet

I think that since his trip to the Ukraine Coveney has turned a bit more hawkish on military matters ( by Irish standards anyway)

roadmaster

According to the Journal this Morning Next week we will know the plan

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274425#Comment_119274425

If DPER gets out of the way…

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274470#Comment_119274470

If Coveney had stuck with the F18s and not asked for the F35s we would not have had this problem

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274562#Comment_119274562

Nah, its the CVN that’s the sticking point I think.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274677#Comment_119274677

Nowhere to park it...

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119275165#Comment_119275165

It’s always the small details that catch you out isn’t it…

ancientmariner

The Bremore Port project is a brain child of an east Coast medium port but will need heavy Investor Capital. Ideally port development should be in national hands with no possibility of exclusivity. All national ports should have a dedicated serviced berth for State ships or ships authorised to use such a berth when available such as CIL and Maritime Institute vessels. I mentioned before that in older Harbour Acts there was provision for a berth available at the discretion of the Minister of marine. The crucial decisions must include making the Port big enough and include decent breakwaters to cover all weather usage. They should also consider provision of ship repair and drydocking facilities to replace the losses in Dublin. Ideally two floating docks up to 125 metres and 250 metres.

Making it big enough now with sufficient depth at LWS and sufficient berthage for commercial shipping such as 4 x 150m, 4 x 250m berths with 12m to 14m depth alongside. Suitable smaller berths for coastal shipping and harbour tugs and pilot boats is also needed . For waiting ships a safe anchorage has to be designated.

Lastly with increasing interest on harbours a proper VTS system needs to be inaugurated for the Irish side of the Irish Sea. It is obvious this should be a government project and not a debacle.

roadmaster

The main reason for Bremore Port is that one of the people behind the idea is hoping some of Dublin Port will eventually move out there and the land along the quays can be developed for commerical and residental

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119276500#Comment_119276500

It’s the only reason, though the backers seem to think such a massive infrastructure realignment would somehow be quick or simple.

donvito99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119276662#Comment_119276662

The monthly Irish Times piece by David McWilliams on the relocation is overdue.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119276751#Comment_119276751

Or some of the stupid rebuttal pieces they have as well.

ancientmariner

There was a National ports policy produced by the then minister for Marine Mr L. Varadker. If they keep a hand on the Tiller and follow the advice as received in their own reports then correct intended outcomes may occur. The laissez-faire policy of Government has led to a three cup sleight of hand with certain developments,, such as the possible loss of Dublin Port to empire builders. and extinction of Gormanstown Military Aerodrome. If things go on as heretofore neither the Air Corps or the Navy will have any place to go. With the loss of Dublin drydocks and repurposing of Cork Dockyard we are in danger of not been relevant to the shipping Industry.

Grassy Knoll

Tomorrow the Government is to announce the new investment in the Defence Forces. It would seem they are to increase the budget by €500 million from the current €1bn by 2028. This would imply c€85 million extra per annum cumulatively going into the base over 6 years. It is unclear whether this is CapEX only, or includes current spending, which would be increasing anyway thru expended pay increases etc.

Prior to the Defence Commission report there has been announcement last of some modest increases in CapEX - the question is whether the €85 million includes this, or is in addition to this - my guess is the former.

It seems this is bringing spending to Level 2 of ambition, which to be fair is the bare minimum for any level of capability. I see some commentators see this as not going far enough - Level 3 is would bring us to close to where our peers are. This announcement has been delayed - clearly there was push back by D/Public Expenditure - I am sure it will be indicated the capacity to absorb additional investment doesn't exist - probably true in terms of the current organisation, a considerable infrastructural investment programme competing when the construction sector is at full capacity, not to mention buying equipment when militaries across Europe are investing. A six year 'ramp-up' to where we should be can be seen either two ways - the organisation is so denuded it simply could not cope, or a reflection of where it sits in terms of political priorities .....

Brosna1999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322214#Comment_119322214

Wow, that's pretty miserable!

Dohvolle

A six year ramp up would be a waste of time and money. By 2028 there would be nobody left in the DF.

TODAY: Ships cannot go to sea because of chronic understaffing in the NAVY

TODAY: Helicopters and fixed wing aircraft must go overseas for the most basic of maintenance due to a shortage of qualified technicians in the Air Corps.

TODAY: Soldiers are resting off having worked 24 hours yesterday for just over €1 per hour. If they got a job in McDonalds at entry wage tomorrow, they would be earning more, and have better protections.

You either increase the defence vote by €500m in the next budget or accept you are at LOA 1 until 2028, and as such ignoring the advice of international and Irish military experts of the CoDF.

Larbre34

Of course its so denuded it cannot cope. That ought not be a surprise to anyone here, or any DF member, or any representative body, or any commentator of military affairs in Ireland.

It may come as a surprise to the plain people of Ireland, who take such things for granted and maybe also to certain officials in DoD and DPER, who don't really care.

But to address your point, you have to build capacity before you build capability.

The very first job, is to agree the new command and force structures in the CoDF recommendations and enable them. The second, is to draw up an operational plan for each element and to timetable the resourcing. Only then can they begin sourcing manpower and procuring technology and facilities.

My take on the budget increase is that the ~€85m p.a. will be additional to previously announced CapEx, as its for elements contained in the report not previously enabled by the Department. And yes, some of it is bound to be going on additional pay and pensions, because they must arrest the retention crisis and also attract new entrants.

Realistically though, the DF is in such bad shape, that reaching LoA2 will take much longer than 5 years and given inflation in procurement and operational costs, will probably need a 2 billion budget in today's money by 2030, not a 1.5 billion one.

Running to stand still just became a lot more expensive.

Larbre34

Pointless to increase it by 500 mil in one go Dohvolle, most of it would be returned unspent in Year 1 and Probably in Y2 and 3 also. The capacity just is not there.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119322495#Comment_119322495

Well the DOD need to get training from the HSE and the County Councils on how to spend money.

If its 15th december and any county council has 100k left over they will be out tar and chipping any road they find before they go on hoildays so the budget is fully used up

Larbre34

The DoD, going back as long as I can recall, have always seemed to delight in returning budget at the end of the year, as if its a great thing. But its actually the worst thing to do, because it demonstrates incompetent management.

Yes, the other State bodies would teach them a thing or two, but unfortunately its hard enough to spend current expenditure in that fashion when it comes to Defence, unless somebody raises a Purchase Order for 400 Javelin Missiles and 50 million rounds of 5.56.

jonnybigwallet

I wouldn't have a problem spending the unspent budget, just drip feed it into either upgrades on the existing ships / infrastructure or buy a small plane every year. You'd have half a squadron after 4 years.