Munster Schools Rugby

Quitelife

Looking at PBC beating Munchins comfortably today and recent Junior Schools results the Limerick schools seem to be falling further behind the big 2 Cork schools. Crescent seniors team are the only team in a semi final in senior or junior schools rugby this year. Are there too many Limerick Schools teams or whats going on ? .

geotrig

Are they though, the cork schools were always that bit more dominant in general , outside of a few years here and there with the limerick schools. I wouldnt say there are too many teams per se, but gaa has some extra pull these days in the city that I don't remember as much back in the 90's etc

I'd be more worried with the seemingly gulf in class that the Leinster schools seem to putting out over the munster ones these days.

Cookiemunster

Yeah, it's always been that way. PBC, CBC and Rockwell have won 87 senior cups between them. Each school has more senior cups individually than all the Limerick schools put together.

It's pretty much the same in the junior cup. Although in that only PBC have more than all the Limerick schools combined.

geotrig

wow never looked to just how many !

Quitelife

No doubt Rugby and Hurling overlap each other quite a bit in terms of many Limerick people are into both and with hurlers going well young lads might be more inclined to hurl than ten years ago, it goes in cycles Munster Rugby was top dog for many years in the city. The ups and downs of Soccer doesnt quite have the same impact, nearly a different demographic altogether.

geotrig

tbh to me the bread and butter of limerick Rugby was the clubs, they are no where near the levels they were back in the Prime AIL days and I don't ever see it geting back to that, too much has changed and with Munster there now the love for the club has been diluted somewhat ,not just here but nationally(all just my opinion) And with that the pull for younger ages seemed to have lessened as well, there was no way ,for the most part, back in the day that we'd join a rival ! :P , I do think (just from what ive seen /noticed ) no's have come up in some clubs .I suppose the main thing is keeping them interested.

MilfordBud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610705#Comment_118610705

I'd imagine Limerick's representation on the Munster team will fall further in next few years. Currently only 7 of the contracted senior players are Limerick born. Only one forward, Kilcoyne at 33. Three scrumhalves in Murray (32), Cronin (29) and Casey(22). Then backs Earls (34), Goggin (27) and Nash (24). Okeke might make a burst from academy alright.

Cookiemunster

There's always been a difference between Limerick rugby and Limerick players. Guys like Keith Wood, Anthony Foley, Alan Quinlan, Marcus Horan, Tony Buckley and Donnacha Ryan played for Limerick clubs, but weren't from Limerick. Wood, Foley, Horan and Ryan went to Limerick rugby playing schools. If you look back at the Munster squads over the years, there hasn't actually been as many Limerick players as you think, but there has been quite a lot of Limerick club players.

The fall of the AIL has been the main issue as far as I'm concerned, rather than the rise of the GAA. Limerick haven't been successful long enough to explain the drop off in number of local players in the Munster squad.

ShatterProof

As long as the schools keep naming huge panels and decimating club teams Munster are doomed.

The majority of these players will not get any meaningful game time and the schools don’t really care about them or them clubs they came from.

Any school that names a panel of more than 35 players or plays an un-panelled player should be removed from the competition.

black & white

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611628#Comment_118611628

I was involved in the Youth committee for a few years in the 90's and this subject was an issue with the clubs back then, particularly the senior city ones. From what I remember, word from on high was that the best way to develop players was through the schools and the funding/coaches etc from IRFU was focussed on that. I was with a junior club and we didn't necessarily have the same issue but we did see senior clubs trying to entice some of our players to them, and it sometimes worked.

geotrig

I've never understood why tieing up /cup tieing players happened or was allowed happen. It could have easily been managed with lining up parts of the season so it didn't ever clash, maybe it doesn't anymore I don't really know.

black & white

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118614893#Comment_118614893

From what I remember, panelling by the schools was brought in to let some players be available to their clubs, the intention was good but it didn't work in practise. Some schools were better than others in how many they actually put on a panel but it was never satisfactory. Some clubs combined with others to fulfil fixtures at 15/16/18 age groups so at least there were some matches played. As I said in a previous post, this is my memory from 20 years ago, things might have changed since.

ShatterProof

Still happening. This year at u16's Old Crescent/St Marys/Richmond and UL Bohs came together to form just one team due to lack of players available to them. (might have been a 5th club also)

I would hazard a guess that a lot of the panelled players from those clubs didn't play 1 min of competitive rugby this year.

geotrig

That is mad and good that the teams are proactive in keeping it going , but shocking that the no's are that low. BITD We might have had the odd "loan" player on the day or vice versa from the opposing team to make the required no's but it never was a huge issue and only when some lazy sod didn't turn up (this was before mammy and daddy had to drop you to training /drop of points ), I know numbers always dropped off from 15's onwards due to playing schools rugby and other but schools for the most part did release players and clubs had just about enough.

For limerick I think its detrimental to the development in general to the game if clubs are gone this way. rugby played by all walks off life in limerick was a uniqueish thing to me and many( hard to put in words )

Quitelife

So the clubs are clearly impacted by the schools naming large panels which is fair enough but why are these schools performing so modestly/poorly ?

black & white

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615347#Comment_118615347

PBC & CBC had the pick of Cork whereas Limerick was split between a lot more schools,

ShatterProof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615347#Comment_118615347

I'd put it down to hurling.

The limerick lads should give it up and go back to playing rugby and leave the hurling to Cork. 😉

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615347#Comment_118615347

Limerick schools, Glenstal aside, aren't as wealthy as PBC, CBC or Rockwell. Depressing as it is, underage success in rugby comes down to running expensive rugby programmes. I'm absolutely sure that if you gave Munchins the money Michaels have (and the coaches etc it pays for) you'd start to see Munchins forwards back in Irish squads within the decade.

(same is probably true for the recent hurling success but JP underwrites the hurling academy which isn't school focused)

stuckintipp

A number of factors impact on the success of Limerick Schools compared to Cork and a lesser extent Rockwell;

Population of Cork city 210K and Limerick is 95K, 2 Rugby schools in Cork with 5 in Limerick, both Cork schools have a large number of boys a year too, the Limerick schools take in approx 100 boys a year while CBC takes in 200 with PBC at 170.

Most schools in Limerick have strict entry criteria that gives priority to local children, the Common Application System means a student is unlikely to gamble on getting into a school they don't have high entry as if they don't get in they'll be left with a lowly ranked school. So the good rugby players in the city are spread into their local schools, in cork they can apply to go to PBC or CBC and if they dont get in they can also apply to local school. In Limerick if you dont live close to St Munchins, Crescent or Castletroy you've little chance of getting in. The only Limerick school that has an open policy is Ard Scoil, they priortise hurling (their Harty team for instance is full of lads from county limerick and well into Clare). Look at the CBC team list, its full of players from well outside the city, the limerick schools would have the odd player that travels in.

Finance and Paid Coaches - The private schools in Cork spend 250-300K on Rugby, the free education Limerick schools wouldn't have a fraction of that. St Munchins are known for relying on Teacher coaches and volunteers, they talk about not paying any coach. The other Limerick schools pay their head senior coach and maybe a few more but not many.

Results - at junior cup since 2010 Limerick schools have 6 win and Cork 5. St Munchins are the top ranked junior cup team for the past few years, Crescent and Munchins are in the Semi finals after yesterdays wins.

At Senior cup Cork schools have also won 5 since 2010 with 3 for Limerick schools and 3 for Rockwell.

While Limerick schools are behind their Cork equivalents, i'd argue they are punching above their weight, especially Crescent and Munchins.

mitresize5

Cresent are into the final after a ding dong match against Bandon just there. Cresents no 8 scored three tries and drew comparisons to David Wallace during his time in school.

School panels are restricted to 25 now so the days of them panelling 35 are gone - thank god. Anyone outside the 25 named can play for thier club.

People talk about the influence of hurling taking kids away from other sports these days. That not true in the city any way.

Im involved in an underage set up locally and can tell you that Garryowen, Shannon, Bohs have hundreds of underage kids togged out every Sunday morning, Old Cresent has massive numbers. close to 50 kids at some age groups. Young Munsters are struggling at the moment which is a shame. Thats just the 'bigger' clubs.

Richmond, Thomond, St Marys etc ... have decent sized setups as well.

Whatever the problem is with getting Limerick city based kids right through to the professional pathway is is not numbers anyway.

Cookiemunster

Well Crescent have just beaten PBC in the senior cup final. All is well in Limerick rugby 😉

Quitelife

Great week for Limerick schools in both rugby and hurling with Cresent defeating the best of Cork in Munster schools Rugby final and Ard Scoil winning the All Ireland schools hurling .