Male Victims of Domestic Violence

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118648324#Comment_118648324

Your idea of "acid tongue" seems to be "the feminists" who don't agree with your opinions.

Nothing to do with muddying the waters.

As another poster says, its more about complaining about other people than actually speaking out for a cause that they feel strongly about. When they are finished complaining about "de feminists" again, they will be back bashing mental health initiatives (as is visible here) complaining about some WOKE slight or other, or some serious civil rights issue that a trans woman won the egg and spoon race in the local sports day or wanted to enter the Rose of Tralee.

Absolutly correct...also the fact that there may be kids involved and the law is automatically on the woman's side.women also hold back sex as a weapon also .men really don't stand a chance unless there's no kids involved

NedsNotDead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645418#Comment_118645418

Ah yes. Two more people Ray knows who probably only exist in his head and for the purposes of arguing with people on Boards

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118648384#Comment_118648384

WTF are you talking about ?

I was referring to women who abuse their spouses verbally with their acid tongues , a man can also have an acid tongue but this thread is about males who are victims of spousal abuse

I said nothing about the politics of the female abusers

my only comments about feminists was that its feminists who have created and influenced the social narrative surrounding domestic abuse which makes things very difficult for men who find themselves victims

JupiterKid

Domestic abuse and violence in general is a very serious issue and there is no doubt that the issue of male domestic abuse is ridiculed, minimised and dismissed by much of the “groupthink” that perpetuates the very tired narrative trotted out time and time again that ONLY women can be victims of domestic abuse.

It’s very frustrating for the men who are, or have been, on the receiving end of spousal abuse from their female partner. This abuse is very real but thanks to many who dismiss it or deny it is even an issue these men mainly suffer in silence, knowing that if they leave the family home they will be denied access to their children etc which will drive many to despair, substance abuse and suicide. The courts here in Ireland are a complete disgrace in siding with the woman in a relationship break up almost every time even if this places the children in greater danger.

As I mentioned before, an acquaintance among my circle of friends (he’s a friend of a good mate) has been driven to despair by his mentally and physically abusive wife who has made his life complete hell. Yet there are many who would dismiss or deny his situation, trot out the narrative that only women can be victims of domestic abuse and accuse any man of raising the issue of being misogynist - or even worse, suggest he is the real abuser etc. Pure victim-blaming and gaslighting and utterly disgraceful - shame on you! 😞😔

Any attempt to raise the issue of domestic abuse against men is quickly dismissed by the usual suspects on here, and it becomes yet another gender wars battle. Resources for men’s domestic abuse services are criminally neglected and starved of funding as the old tropes and narratives are wheeled out by those wanting the deny the issues again and again. It must be very frustrating, demoralizing and dehumanizing for the men who are the unfortunate victims in this situation.

There is also the doubly-hidden issue of same-sex domestic abuse where gay men are abused by their male partner/spouse and the issue of female on female domestic abuse in lesbian households where research to date shows has the highest risk of domestic abuse in any heterosexual or homosexual domestic setup.

Lastly, I would ask those who attack, minimise, dismiss or deny the issue of female to male domestic abuse to look into their hearts and ask themselves do they have a clear conscience in dismissing the cries for help by these tormented men, who suffer daily in silence, feel too ashamed to seek help for fear of disbelief and/or ridicule - and believe that if they go to the courts they will lose access to their children and the family home anyway.

igCorcaigh

It's a problem. But not of the feminists making. More supports should be available to men, and thankfully they have been happening over the last few years, finally.

laoisgem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118649752#Comment_118649752

Most of the refuge centers for females were started by females. I don't see males dong the same thing. Just an observation

Green Finers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118649823#Comment_118649823

Because they won’t be given funds or donations.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645437#Comment_118645437

It is attitudes and dated beliefs like this that are the biggest hurdle against people speaking out. From my experience, it is the attitude of other men that men fear most.

I dont know anyone who would define a person in an abusive relationship as "weak". And I also don't know anyone who subscribes to the "women want badasses who tick all the boxes". That's all just nonsense, putting people into boxes and then getting angry about it.

Seeing society/the herd/women as the enemy of "men" is a large part of the problem. It is not a case of everyone is against men and pushing that narrative is only going to isolate people further.

Mad_maxx

now you are making stuff up , nobody has said they view women as the enemy

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118649752#Comment_118649752

what makes you so sure feminists have not had a significant role in the situation ?

feminists press hard the issue of how men are allegedly a threat to women on a constant basis , at least the feminists who are to the fore publicly in ireland do , at every opportunity they portray men as in need for serious reform and from a young age

this creates a narrative that the only possible abusive threat in a couples relationship is from the male towards the female

and as for the lack of balance in how the court deals with divorce , do you honestly believe feminists want the balance tilted more towards men ?

Liberty_Bear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118649741#Comment_118649741

I think you summed it up perfectly here in this post. All of the discourse around it tends to centre on it being a problem of the feminist making, nothing could be further from the truth. Male victims of domestic violence are the forgotten victims of the ongoing need to get resources and a refuge for men. Im seeing it on here by the shedload and its a worrying trend. The principal focus has to be on building a strong cohesive network of places that are suitable for people to stay both men and women as both are severely underfunded. There is a consultation with this. In it though is not mentioned mens refuges but mention of collectively trying to changes mens opinions to domestic violence. Nothing is mentioned about male victims though, that needs to be included as part of the bigger conversation on it.

Liberty_Bear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118648786#Comment_118648786

That is something I never ever thought of. I had to think on that and ponder it. Withholding affection is calssified as abuse. Have to bring myself up to speed on that.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118650231#Comment_118650231

....it says Society/TheHerd/Women do not care about the domestic abuse of men. Gross generalisation.

Cheerful S

Remove yourself from the relationship if there is mental abuse. Don’t tolerate it. Plenty of women and men out there who are loving and caring and friendly. Rarely change someone who's like that despite what you think. Things can be said in heat of the argument. In a relationship that is pure stress environment, why would you bother seriously?

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645209#Comment_118645209

Failed relationship the person you are with uses violence or mental games to control. Control isn't a bad thing as long you got mutual respect and genuine love. Afraid to have an opinion what kind of relationship is that, really? The men you know need to have a genuine, deep look at the person they are with and say can I do this with her still?. So many women and men on this planet, find one that is compatible. 

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118649063#Comment_118649063

Don't believe me so. Are you saying no woman got pregnant against their partner's wishes or even got pregnant by a stranger on purpose without their consent? Because that is very easily provable

https://kissrichmond.com/1685682/real-talk-man-receives-oral-sex-ordered-to-pay-child-support/

NedsNotDead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118651337#Comment_118651337

I'm sure it happens. I just don't believe your BS that you know 2 people it happened to.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118651616#Comment_118651616

Well once you are judging this on a well balanced analysis that is great. Don't believe me I don't care. I do know 2 people personally whether you believe me or not. What is your basis that it isn't true?

I also know a number of men who were given ultimatums about having children. We are having children or we are breaking up has been said by more than one women for sure. Don't know your age but it is a factor in experiencing what women may demand in a relationship

Either way this is an issue with mens' rights even if you don't believe that I have personal knowledge of it it makes no difference to the facts

NedsNotDead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118651672#Comment_118651672

Perfect. So we're both agreed that your 2 friends are BS.

All the best

ancapailldorcha

So people deciding they want children is abuse now? Is that the purpose of this thread? To invent new forms of abuse?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118651951#Comment_118651951

Emotional blackmail is what it is. Do what I want or I am leaving you. I don't think you are mature enough to understand

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118651977#Comment_118651977

It really isn't. This is of course assuming that this happened and, frankly I do not believe you given your earlier attempt to gaslight me.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118651737#Comment_118651737

Very mature. Want to tell me why you think it is a lie? Pretty sure you haven't spoken to women who want kids and time is running out because if you did you would know they aren't exactly rational on the subject.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645209#Comment_118645209

Strong sense of projection off this.

Don't be afraid to reach out mate, there is help available if you need it: https://www.mensaid.ie/

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652009#Comment_118652009

So she should stay with the guy, wasting her time, who doesn’t want kids? Telling him to shít or get off the pot is hardly abuse.

Lots of couples break up over one not wanting to have kids. And that’s the mature decision, stringing someone along for years when you don’t want kids is both selfish and deplorable.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652116#Comment_118652116

Judging by some other threads I've seen, there are a lot of lads on here who view compromise in a marriage as abusive, domineering feminist ideology.

"I don't really want children, but I will have them so that I can stay with you" is a compromise.

A person setting a hard boundary ("I will have children whether it's with you or not") is not coercion or abuse. The other party is perfectly free to set their own boundaries too - "I do not want children and therefore we will have to break up so you can have children with someone else".

Like you say, stringing a partner along for years because you don't want to have kids but you also don't want to lose them, is a lot closer to abuse than the opposite.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652116#Comment_118652116

Not what I said and also not the point. Sure people can break up if they don't have the same goals but do you really think none of these ultimatums are dealt with differently than breaking up. Do you think any of these women said they didn't want children originally and then changed their mind?

In that context it is in would a women decide to stop contraception to have a child regardless of the other person view rather than have the conversation or start again finding a partner? Speaking to my mother and female friends they had a similar view to you about the guy has to make the decision and if he doesn't the women is right to get pregnant against the will of their partner.

Nobody should be forced to have a child against their will whether through deception or coercion.

mohawk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118650763#Comment_118650763

You are absolutely correct that you need to end any relationship with mental abuse. I do just want to point out that it can start out very subtly and then before you know it your worn out from it. It can take years to realise what you went through was mental/ emotional abuse.

For anyone who is reading this thread finding themselves in a situation where you feel like you have the weight of the world on top of you, you are afraid of setting off your partner by saying the ‘wrong’ thing, feel you can’t be yourself with your partner, no matter what happens your partner always blames you for things going wrong, you feel lonely in the relationship because you can never open up with your partner because they could use it against you in future. These are all signs there is abuse in the relationship. It might not leave physical scars but it does leave scars. Even if there is kids involved you must leave otherwise they will grow up thinking this is how to behave in a relationship.

Speaking as a woman. WTAF is up with men asking permission to go out with their friends.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118645247#Comment_118645247

You should be embarrassed posting that nonsense....the comments are genuinely hilarious/insane

ancapailldorcha

Speaking as a woman. WTAF is up with men asking permission to go out with their friends.

I think when you're in a relationship, it might be considered a bit rude to just head out so I suppose it's just checking that the OH didn't want to do anything. If you actually have to ask permission, get out would be my advice. Most of my friends are in Ireland and I am not so were I to be in a relationship, I'd probably be having multiple such chat a year.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652245#Comment_118652245

It’s a common courtesy, especially when you have kids at home. But even before the kids I would always check with my partner before agreeing to something.

Now, there are always spur of the moment “events”, like drinks after work, but a quick text to let them know not to expect you home until later or to double check that they didn’t have plans Is just good manners.

Anyone going out without contacting their significant other is just selfish and inconsiderate.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652281#Comment_118652281

That is the case with some people but there are people who have to ask permission as opposed to checking it didn't conflict with plans. You seem to have a hard trouble believing reality that people face. You aren't even in a relationship and you are giving advice!!

It is pretty apparent you are clueless and now the reason is clear. What is the longest relationship you had and how old are you? These details will probably explain why you don't understand reality and it is all academic to you

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652357#Comment_118652357

Don’t know what you’re reading there, R, but I think he’s got it just fine.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652384#Comment_118652384

same question to you so. Somebody with a couple of kids and mortgage is just going to leave after they got used to asking for permission to go out? Yeah life is that simple and he got it bang on.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652357#Comment_118652357

When reality seems to be people you say you know, you'll have to forgive my skepticism.

I'm not going to give my personal information to someone who gaslights me.

Just regarding Feminism/ists being highlighted and the association with angry men... why is anyone surprised or why should male posters be ashamed to make such an association?

Feminism and the influence it extends across society has been at the front of social change for the last thirty-forty years. It is not some obscure social movement, with little impact on most peoples lives, but a movement that has directly influenced social change. Throughout my lifetime (40+ years) I've seen the place of women in society shift, the implementation of laws in mainstream society, and in employment, etc. While at the same time, those laws or social norms which benefited women were retained or strengthened.

What posters here fail to recognise is that feminism has always held "men" as being their opponent. Sometimes that manifests in hardline attitudes such as "all men are rapists" or the more mainstream attitudes that men will discriminate against women. This is how ideas such as unconscious bias (only ever extended in these topics, as a negative towards men), mansplaining (which has made its way into mainstream media), etc. There have been heaps of mechanisms pushed into society over the last few decades to put "men", as a gender, firmly in the bad corner.

The US is the most powerful culture within western nations. There's been a range of threads here on boards talking about Irish youth being americanised, assuming American slang or ideas. Feminism established itself in academia in the 70s/80s, creating women's studies courses, and developing most of what is considered to be feminist theory... and the graduates of those courses further established themselves in academia, or moved into psychology/sociology/politics etc, encouraging the spread of those feminist concepts, and beliefs. And that has continued for decades, moving into business management theory, the expansion of HRM, etc backed up by research made by those same psychologists and sociologists, who sought to "prove" that feminism was in the right, leading to either extremely dubious research assumptions, or solid revelations. But it didn't stay within the feminist community, but was applied out in the real world.. initially in the US, but has spread throughout most of western Europe. The UK, in particular, jumped into adopting many of these ideas, extending them into their own academia or educational platforms.

And do all of these initiatives or social concepts operate in a sterile environment? do they remain on the internet or on social media, never entering the attitudes and behaviours of those exposed to them? Of course not. They are accepted, because there is so little resistance in society to such beliefs. They are tolerated because "men" are guilty of past associations (based on gender) of discrimination, and collective responsibility (present day) towards domestic violence or violence in general. Throughout just about every aspect of society today, the negative behaviours of female individuals are pointed as the actions of individuals, and the negative behaviours of male individuals are representative of the overall male gender. The more recent incidents regarding violence in Ireland reinforces this push to establish gender stereotypes, and collective responsibility for males, while excusing women entirely from the situation, except as completely innocent victims.

Feminism promoted the viewpoint over decades that it sought equality between the genders, but I doubt many men would say, in all honesty, that they feel they are equal with women, considering the range of benefits in society that women receive based entirely on their gender. Whether that's the favouritism in court/legal proceedings where women receive lesser sentencing for the same crimes, the automatic assumption that a male is the aggressor even when evidence/witnesses point to the female as the aggressor, the idea that it's terrible to hit a woman but no equal perspective that it's terrible that a woman hits a man, that entirely based on gender women can avail of educational sponsorship/funding not available to men.. in fact, there are a wide range of programmes/supports made solely available to women based entirely on their gender, but any similar programmes/supports for males based on their gender would be considered discrimination. The sheer range of double standards in society regarding the genders, and how they're treated, is staggering... and almost entirely ignored or dismissed.

That's why Feminism is highlighted when people talk about domestic violence directed towards men. And it's also why any criticism of feminism or the state of society, will be dismissed as the voices of angry men. Except, men can be critical without being angry. They can be concerned about the direction society is heading towards without losing their rein on logic. Alas, the nature of the internet is that people voice extreme opinions, and in the case of male posters, that's used as a baton to beat down and dismiss the more reasonable concerns.

Unfortunately, we live in an intolerant reality. Feminism and it's ideals have established themselves at the top of the mountain, and will fiercely attack anyone who tries to join them or seek any kind of equal treatment. Which is why domestic abuse towards males will be mostly ignored. Women are the victims here. When we only have two actual genders, it's very easy to paint to world in shades of black/white, and to defy the changes in society, or admit that social pressure will force many men to remain silent about the abuse they receive. After all... shouldn't men just "Man up?".

mohawk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652324#Comment_118652324

I am not referring to this behaviour that you describe which is normal. There is a difference between asking permission and contacting your partner to say that the lads are going out and your thinking of joining them. Controlling behaviour is not okay but considerate behaviour is always okay. I don’t understand the need for controlling your partners social life which does happen in many relationships.

zv2

It is not a question of whether asking for permission to meet friends/having children/withholding affection are, in themselves, abuse. It is how these things can be abusive. It depends on the context. Preventing someone from meeting friends can be abuse if it is done out of a desire to control.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652414#Comment_118652414

It was you who was gaslighting not me. Go on try to explain how I was gaslighting. None of what I said is unique to my personal knowledge and your denial of provable incidents that have is gaslighting.

Women do or don't get pregnant without the other person consent?

According to you it is all made up because I told you about people I knew.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_theft

zv2

@[Deleted User] "There have been heaps of mechanisms pushed into society over the last few decades to put "men", as a gender, firmly in the bad corner."

Recently Tommy Tiernan interviewed Charlene McKenna and T.T. said that 'men don't feel very loved' these days. McKenna said she loves men but "you daren't say it". You dare not love men? I thought that was very sinister but that's what happens in a society when hysteria sets in.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652490#Comment_118652490

How prevalent is sperm theft?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118646115#Comment_118646115

Your quote:

I spent some time looking into the Men's Rights thing and it's nothing more than a group of angry men who hate feminists.

Your claim:

I dismissed the angry men on the internet, not men's issues.

Your quote again:

I spent some time looking into the Men's Rights thing and it's nothing more than a group of angry men who hate feminists.

Fact Check:

FALSE. You dismissed "the Men's Rights thing", not just some unspecified angry men.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652146#Comment_118652146

Like you say, stringing a partner along for years because you don't want to have kids but you also don't want to lose them, is a lot closer to abuse than the opposite.

Do you think it is possible that some women know a man doesn't want kids but think he will change his mind? Are they stringing the men along? If it is equality we are talking you have to start looking at both sides and don't assume somebody is stringing them along

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652519#Comment_118652519

It's the same thing. This was my point.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652519#Comment_118652519

They aren't quotes from me so yes you are gaslighting by claiming I said things I didn't.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652528#Comment_118652528

OK that's good that we can agree that you are dismissing men's issues. I guess you could claim anyone campaigning about anything as just being impotent angry whiners if you wanted to muddy their image.

BLM, Palestinian activists, asylum seekers, rape victims. They should just stop moaning and get on with their lives is it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652537#Comment_118652537

I didn't quote you Ray.

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652324#Comment_118652324

Checking in with a partner regarding plans is not the same thing as asking permission. We don't have kids but before I would always check with my husband if there was something planned i forgot about before confirming plans and he does the smae with me. Its never a permission thing, its a scheduling thing. Plus neither of us would never just not come home from work, it would be a FYI im going for a drink be home late. Again, no permission required. Totally different scenarios.

I believe some men and women use their partners to get out of plans - tell their friends their partner wont let them when they just want to stay home instead but there is 100% an issue of controlling partners who do require permission from their partners to do things and would keep tabs on who they are with, who they are contacting. For some reason it seems more commonplace and acceptable for women to be like this and from my experience some men just expect this as part and parcel of being in a relationship. The phrase "ball and chain" comes to mind.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118652580#Comment_118652580

sorry it pick up the wrong quote