Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785338#Comment_118785338

It's information about the Azov battalion which is fighting in Ukraine, why is it whataboutery?

Likewise, how do you not see the relevance of the small political and military representation of the far-right in a war that is predicated by the aggressor as "DeNazifying" a country?

Gatling

@[Deleted User] and yet got little or no support in elections in Ukraine , but the biggest supporter of the far right in Europe and further afield is Russia...

Russia sent their own Nazis to fight in eastern Ukraine 8 years ago

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785249#Comment_118785249

But to be truthful Gatling they are not all UKRAINIANS. Even before the Russian invasion they had members from 22 different countries attracted to their white supremacist ideology. The ideology of “leading a crusade of the white races against the Untermenschen.”

Michael Colborne of Foreign Policy called it "a dangerous neo-Nazi-friendly extremist movement" with "global ambitions", citing similarities between the group's ideology and symbolism and that of the 2019 Christchurch mosque shooter, along with efforts by the group to recruit American right-wing extremists.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785413#Comment_118785413

Nonsense .

They are UKRAINIANs defending Ukraine from a foreign invader aka Russia ,and they are doing an amazing job outgunned and out numbered but yet they have control of maripol ,

Keeping the Russians at bay they did exactly the same 8 years ago when russia tried to take the city

Pussyhands

Matt Cooper had a journo on this evening,I think name was Lara Marlow or something like that? She said she interviewed Ukrainian soldiers and spoke to a Ukrainia Lieutenant. Matt said things might not be going as well for Ukrainian army as we're led to believe. She said a lot of the generals of the army have been killed and there's very inexperienced people. This soldier said the Ukrainians are driving vehicles from the 80s and they break down all the time.

You can listen back from 2:30 on this link

https://www.goloudplayer.com/episodes/the-latest-from-ukraine-aHR0cHM6Ly9jZG4ucmFkaW9jbXMubmV0L3JhZGlvLWNtcy91cGxvYWRzLzIwMjIvMDMvMTQxOTAzMzEvMTQwM3VrcmFpbmUubXAz

mikewest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785388#Comment_118785388

Well if the Russians stayed at home the Azov regiment in it's current form wouldn't exist. There would be no reason for it.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785388#Comment_118785388

the group formed IN RESPONSE TO RUSSIAN ACTIONS IN 2014

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-13/inside-the-mariupol-base-of-ukraines-azov-battalion/6306242

THEY ARE BEING USED , BY RUSSIA, AS AN EXCUSE TO JUSTIFY THIS WAR

from your post

We almost certainly have the wives and children of neo-nazis coming here presently. No security, no vetting, nothing. - Evidence? Any evidence? I mean you must have some, you could not possibly come on boards, and make such a statement without evidence.. just to scaremonger? And what should we do? Refuse to accept refugees?

Dohnjoe

Interesting to see which posters consistently mirror Putin's propaganda and talking points. I genuinely don't think they realise how obvious it is.

Pete_Cavan

I'd say it's not even a case of feeding intel to the Ukrainians, there is probably a lot of coordination where the intel is being compiled, verified, scenarios being run and preferable strategies then being given to the Ukrainians. The Ukrainian army has probably never had so much access to soldiers, equipment and information, they probably wouldn't know what to do with it all without NATO assistance.

It's probably like a once great but now old and forgetful chess grand master playing against an average player who has a couple grand masters whispering in his ear.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785410#Comment_118785410

For sure the whole de Nazifying justification by Russia is horse manure.

However you cannot bring yourself to condemn a neo Nazi, fascist military organisation, accused of war crimes. Then justify this by “what about” the Wagner Group.

Even your opening line “A little bit of context on Azov” is straight from the apologists playbook.

A little bit of context on neo nazism.

A little bit of context on the war crimes.

A little bit of context on the gang rape and torture of a mentally disabled man.

For a war so many are insisting is so black and white there seems to be a need for an awful lot of context.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785579#Comment_118785579

The Ukrainians have been fighting a real war in S.E Ukraine and a hybrid war with Russia for 8 years. They are relatively well organised regardless of NATO and US intelligence assistance. However if Russia had invaded in 2014 it's likely their military would have collapsed entirely.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785587#Comment_118785587

The only ones accusing them of warcrime just happen to be Russian military forces and fsb agents .your looking for a bogey man to deflect away from Russia and putin

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785587#Comment_118785587

Why are you so fixated with this one battalion?

And why do you think Putin shares the same fixation?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785587#Comment_118785587

This from the poster who a few pages back point blank refused to consider Russia might be carrying out war crimes unless they were actuallly convicted by the ICC in the Hague.

Couldnt even bring themselves to admit that Russia might even have a case to answer!

This is not whataboutery. This is the obvious insincerity in your posts when you bring up these points and completely different standards for actions by Russian forces versus Ukraine. Never digs up crap about Russia. Always finds mud to sling against Ukraine. All in the name of just asking questions...

Pull the other one.

This is what you wrote:

"You or I are not in a position to call this a war crime from our positions thousands of miles to the west, in the safety of our own homes."

Yet when it suits you you throw out accusations of war crimes.

Your posts have zero credibility.

goldenmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785549#Comment_118785549

@SafeSurfer @Pussyhands @[Deleted User]

The Three Stooges.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785549#Comment_118785549

I have come to the conclusion that the goal of such information is not to convince. Its a distortion campaign. Make this conflict look far less black and white - turn it into a 'both sides bad' situation. Its all part of a post truth campaign. I have also heard this process referred to as the imposition of relativism, in relation to facts. 'everyone entitled to their own truths' - its nonsensical imho. but clearly some people are convinced

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785579#Comment_118785579

Yea i would say thats an appropriate analogy, although Russian incompetence is a big factor too. iv seen plenty of tweets suggesting various almost unbelievable facts

• Russians using off the shelf radios with no encryption
• tanks driving into fields where the operators end up leaving them over night - to find them semi submerged in the morning
• commercial GPS equipment used

The link below is from a YT channel called LAZERPIG - he is a comedic military blogger - i wasnt going to post it here, and im sure doing so will have a few 'bad actors' from above complain. But if you want to see Russian ineptitude on display - LAZER has compiled a BEST OF video - and its beyond staggering. Obviously usual caveats, and the fact i wouldnt use him as a source in academia - but its all here - the broad strokes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPBU_MX1fYE

NOTE : this guy is a comical contrarian. he says his piece while showing footage from a real time strategy game - ignore, and just listen to his take - its genuine.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785606#Comment_118785606

Because this Battalion’s name is on my TV screen on the RTE news being credited for the footage.

If the Wagner group were being credited by RTE for footage I wouldn’t be impressed either.

AMKC

So I heard that Russia have once again upped the alert level of there Nuclear arsenal. Is this right?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785625#Comment_118785625

Be honest and less of the faux indignation Ody. A poster demanded that the bombing of the maternity hospital be labeled a war crime before reports of what happened were verified.

Biden, privy to more information than any of us, has still not come out and condemned Russian actions as war crimes.

I am appalled by women and children being killed by Russian war crimes.

Now, will you condemn the war crimes of the neo Nazi Azov brigade or can you not bring yourself to do that?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785600#Comment_118785600

Again this is not true Gatling. The UN have too.

https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_13th_HRMMU_Report_3March2016.pdf

Gatling

Seems another drone ended up in another Nato country this time in Romania , second time this week

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1503398103570960390?s=20&t=hzt_XTRTdAygeA-NzSSkBA

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785472#Comment_118785472

If the UK invaded Ireland tomorrow and every Irish man was handed a gun and rockets and told to defend the country, how useful do you think most non military men would be? Not very.

Dave Grossman wrote the book "on killing". He talks about war. Basically without years of extensive training, normal humans are not a useful resource on a battle field or urban battle. Muscle memory is the most useful tool in battle. That takes years to develop.

I'm sceptical about any reports from Ukrakine, moral is critical, so the reports are likely slanted to maintain moral among the Ukranian camp.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785897#Comment_118785897

Be honest? From the poster who changes their tune from post to post, demonstrates an obvious double standard which multiple posters have called you out on.

You didnt ask for 'verification' you said you would wait for the ICC to convict.

Nothing about waiting for Biden or confirmation from the US or UN. You set ICC as the standard. Thats another red herring you invent now that you have been found out.

When it suits you you quote the UN. When it does not suit you you look for a ridiculous standard ICC you dont hold to in other posts.

This is what you wrote:

"You or I are not in a position to call this a war crime from our positions thousands of miles to the west, in the safety of our own homes."

Yet when it comes to you lobbing war crimes accusation around v Ukraine there is no such standard.

Your posts have zero credibility. You are now enveloped in own smokescreen.

Be honest? Physician heal thyself.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785914#Comment_118785914

Have you actually read the document is mostly blames the Russian side and how many mentions does the azoz battalion get ,

Let see you posted more posts about the azoz battalion today then is mentioned in that document.

The report doesn't back up your claims

Larbre34

I'm going to say it. The Azov Batallion cannot be guilty of war crimes against a foreign invader, in an undeclared war, on the soil of their own internationally recognised sovereign Republic.

There is no equivalence, only false and nobody at the UN, the ICC or any other international tribunal when this mess is done with is going to after them for it.

So again, if Russian conscripts, or collaborators, or insurgents from the Donbass, find themselves being tortured or otherwise ill-treated, they could always put down their weapons, quit their illegal action and go the **** home.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785977#Comment_118785977

Zero credibility?

Is this your way of avoiding condemning war crime committing Nazis?

And you are accusing others of double standards?

You just can’t bring yourself to condemn the Nazis you agree with can you?

Quitelife

Desperate stuff watching the BBC news at ten as Russian bombs are turning Ukrainian cities into Apocalypse mountains of Rubble- Putin wont stop till he has killed all Ukrainians...truly horrible what the Russians are doing

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785997#Comment_118785997

What Nazis? Condemn what actions?

They havent been convicted by the ICC of a war crime so how can I condemn them?

Those were the ground rules you declared when rejecting claims of a war crime by Russia in attacking maternity hospital.

"You or I are not in a position to call this a war crime from our positions thousands of miles to the west, in the safety of our own homes."

I think thats a textbook case of you being hoist on your own petard.

Your posts have zero credibility because you change your standards from post to post to suit your argument and agenda.

You claim you would have posted if rte used Wagner group footage.

I dont believe you and Im not alone - based on your posting history.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118786051#Comment_118786051

I have condemned Russian war crimes.

Thst just leaves you defending a Neo Nazi organisation the UN HCHR says are responsible for war crimes including the torture and gang rape of a mentally disabled person

You just can’t bring yourself to condemn that!

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118786078#Comment_118786078

Alleged warcrime that you claimed were carried out by the azoz battalion and yet in the UN document you posted there is little or no mention to the azoz battalion and alleged war crimes ,

Can you explain why?