Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795816#Comment_118795816

Even if they cut a deal than accepts a divided country, like Ireland in the 1920's, Russia has no chance of occupying the parts they get though. 100 years of division hasn't ended the struggle for a united Ireland here, why would Ukrainians left in their version of "the 6 counties" not agitate for re-unification eventually?

Russia has, for pretty unclear reasons, decided to get bogged down in potentially decades of conflict. It really makes no sense.

Shao Kahn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795777#Comment_118795777

Nah, I think it was all media hot air tbh.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795895#Comment_118795895

Your position isnt very convincing when you make no attempt to explain what paratroops were doing... in a conventional advance they should be sent in just ahead of the main forces.

Gatling

Looks like a possible coup taking place in Belarus , large number of fighter aircraft and helicopters took off from a base earlier ,

explosions been heard in various cities along with air raid sirens.

https://twitter.com/PavelLatushka/status/1504200509481173006?s=20&t=ZTQ0nGckuW9jPfst41Otsg

https://twitter.com/PavelLatushka/status/1504200509481173006?s=20&t=ZTQ0nGckuW9jPfst41Otsg

odyssey06

Not getting my hopes up re Belarus until picture becomes clearer... remember the short lived Turkey coup. This could be a pretext to get Belarus more actively involved in the war v Ukraine for all we know.

But fingers crossed.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795763#Comment_118795763

Ukraine might agree to an armed neutrality post war. They are unlikely to be trusting of a crossed finger promise off Putin/Russia not to do this to them again in future. If the 2 come to terms to end the war absent a Russian victory and Ukraine surrender, there will have to be something more concrete provided to them than just words on a bit of paper.

Maybe now was not the time, but Biden stated what is almost certainly a fact rather than just "bad-mouthing" poor Vladimir...

The Irish govt. or Irish politicians did call out the British on their behaviour a few times during the never-ending "Brexit" process edit: even if they did not call them names e.g. most recently I think Coveney publically questioned whether they were actually interested in finding solutions with the EU for NI Protocol or implementing what they already agreed (of course that is all a bit less serious than this, and does not involve war, or unprovoked invasion of a nation...).

Pussyhands

False flag?

Podge_irl

A coup would presumably not involve taking off and bombing cities? Who knows what is going on there

Shao Kahn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795923#Comment_118795923

Who knows?

Could be up to anything, such is the nature of those types of operations.

Obviously you're going to make moves early doors to gain early advantages in any campaign. Like for example, why not throw some guys in and see if you can grab some of the leadership early on? Even if those missions are highly likely to fail, it's worth a shot.

Doesn't necessarily mean you're going for some rapid blitz in the overall campaign.

Hey look, believe whatever you wish. There's so much fog of war / propaganda going on in this thing, that the lines are very much blurred. I could very well be wrong, but that's just my opinion. I'm not buying into some of narrative around this. Especially from the western media, who even in non war times are known for their lying and deception.

Podge_irl

What is your view on the US intelligence who were consistently warning that Russia was about to invade while even Ukraine did not think it was likely? Perhaps they actually know what they are on about as it turns out.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796036#Comment_118796036

From the western media? As opposed to who, the russians who are strangers to the truth?

Did they make up the paratroops?

Was that a western media lie?

You havent presented an alternative narrative that explains the facts. Your account is fact free.

Your position seems to be I dont know whats going on so Im going to believe what I wanted to believe all along even though I cant explain awkward facts like paratroops. Then just engage in muddying the waters of any alternative theory that at least tries to explain the facts.

So rather pointless really engaging with someone who doubts a information and just goes with the opinion they wanted to have all along . You arent going to convince anyone of anything with just throwing things out there and saying dont trust the media.

kevthegaff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796057#Comment_118796057

It must be one of putins closest allys passing info

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795931#Comment_118795931

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795971#Comment_118795971

We could certainly hope there is some attempt in Belarus to topple Lukashenko - fingers crossed its at least movement on the right side of this. And not some stunt to drag Belarus into the war- we dont know obviously

Lukashenko's regime doesnt seem as solid as Putin's - in terms of protests, and he only remaining in power thanks to the Kremlin.

Were Belarus suddenly to become hostile to Putin - could be massive. here's hoping!

I too am skeptical though - watch this space maybe -

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795895#Comment_118795895

Bull ye full on went to steamroll in to Kyiv and changed your story when it turned out that the people would fight to the last man. Something Russians should well understand

Shao Kahn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796063#Comment_118796063

So are you denying that propaganda is a factor during war?

Or that media don't ever lie to their viewers when it suits them to do so?

Like I said, believe whatever you wish. I'm not buying the western narrative on this.

And no, I haven't actually been following much of the Russia coverage either. I have been seeking out many different varied sources. But like I said, it's still very much a case of "fog of war"... Even assuming you're actually looking for the truth, and not just swallowing what you WANT to be the truth, it's not an easy task in times such as this.

An excellent video as usual this guy has real combat experience and he tries to give a fair and balanced opinion on what is going on on the ground in Ukraine. In my opinion, he's a must watch to have a better understanding of what is going on.

https://youtu.be/Igq2fqa7RY4

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796163#Comment_118796163

I dont think you are looking for the the truth. Who knows is not the motto of a truth seeker. It is someone who denies the truth is knowable.

Strawman. Propaganda is a factor in war. That doesnt mean you blindly reject the version of events presented unless you have grounds to do so. You have provided no specific reasons why the coup version should be doubted. Just noise about the fog of war and dont trust the media.

Pointless discussing an issue on that basis as it is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.

Swallowing the truth... thats a ranting worthy of the CT forum.

A western media which is leagues more truthful than any alternative news source... none of which you provide to support your position. Many varied news sources indeed.

None of which you have referenced to give a convincing explanation for dropping in paratroops far ahead of main troops - unless you expect to either meet no resistance and be able to retrieve them OR link up with heavy ground troops before they are overwhelmed by defending forces.

Neither of which happened.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796163#Comment_118796163

From your above post @Shao Kahn

Like I said, believe whatever you wish. I'm not buying the western narrative on this.

And no, I haven't actually been following much of the Russia coverage either. I have been seeking out many different varied sources. But like I said, it's still very much a case of "fog of war"... Even assuming you're actually looking for the truth, and not just swallowing what you WANT to be the truth, it's not an easy task in times such as this.

Can we see some to the 'different and varied sources' - that have led you to take this stance?

What 'alternative Narrative' for the failed attempt lightening Russian victory, can you provide? And do you have evidence to support this?

I ask because as of now - your stance is that of someone who enters an ongoing discussion. And states 'Im not buying any of this' - Ok - your choice - So please do enlighten us

Headshot

Really take a monstrous evil human being to be target residential areas and especially Hospitals

There's a special place in Hell waiting for Putin right beside Hitler

Varik

UAE has backtracked on comments that it'd look to raise supply, seems to be sticking to existing OPEC+ plan (which includes Russia). So no increased production from Saudis or UAE after UK meeting today.

China also going to have terrible wheat harvest plus some others, not a good time for that.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796256#Comment_118796256

The lady on Sky News nearly broke into tears after showing a report from Mariupol - and its ghastly - Im having to be careful what i look at online ATM - Iv already seen too much myself - below mainstream media reports - not sharing any twitter stuff on this

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-newborns-body-in-mariupol-hospital-lies-on-floor-of-makeshift-morgue-originally-built-for-food-storage-12567784

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/16/europe/ukraine-mariupol-bombing-theater-intl/index.html

But of course some will claim its propaganda no doubt -

Very hard to disagree with your sentiments RE Putin - Its a crying shame he can only die once

Shao Kahn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796231#Comment_118796231

You think the western media is truthful? lol

Explains a lot I suppose. At least I know what type of person I'm engaging with anyway.

So you think the paratroops proves that Russia was planning a blitzkrieg? And your stance is essentially that you are infallible and it's impossible you could be wrong? Is that the deal here?

Or are you admitting that there is a possibility your theory could be wrong?

I've already told you, that paratroops could be up to almost anything. They engage in a wide variety of operations during a war. So it's not true at all to suggest that I am muddying the waters. With regard to war and para operations, the waters are sufficiently muddy all on their own.

If you want to speculate (or believe others speculation) on what those paras were up to, that's your choice. Good for you. I respect your opinion. But that's all it is, an opinion.

I disagree with your opinion. But, of course, I could be wrong too.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796256#Comment_118796256

And every other person who had the command of large armies who killed civilians.

May they all burn

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796343#Comment_118796343

Do you have any evidence - to support - anything you have been saying -

• How has western media been untruthful in their coverage of this conflict
• Why did the Russian paratroopers seize and airport, and subsequently get nearly wiped out, defending it
• Please provides links for the aforementioned 'different and varied sources', which lead you to disbelieve the 'western narrative' on this conflict

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796343#Comment_118796343

The widespread belief by military analysts (and just about everyone) is that Russia expected a quick win. Think of the Taliban going back into Afghanistan. Not a chance they expected or planned to be in the quagmire they now find themselves in.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796256#Comment_118796256

I was looking at Prime Time yesterday evening and they had an analyst on saying that Putin thinks he is a God and above all other Humans. That's what the World is dealing with here a deranged evil maniac with no red lines.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796497#Comment_118796497

It might also be brinkmanship - there was a widely held idea that Nixon wanted Hanoi to think he was nuts - that he might 'drop the bomb' - a negotiating tactic, which he hoped would make the North Vietnamese (and their Chinese allies) be more amenable to a peace deal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory

Listen Putin is clearly a moral monster - a disgrace - no question - we dont yet know what his mental state is - Russians are infamous for 'misdirection and misinformation'

That said - we dont know - i dont disagree with you at all btw - just playing devils advocate

Manach

Putin has stumbled in this ill-judged invasion. However, that does not make make him an anomonly amonsg historical Russian leaders. Kremlin policy has always been to dominate the region of the Black Sea, with kudos being applied to those such as Catherine the Great and Peter the Great who asserted Russian power on a mission to Russify the people there. To quote the British historian Geoffrey Hosking, “Britain had an empire, but Russia was an empire—and perhaps still is.”

amandstu

If we can allow ourselves to dream a bit ,in the event that Putin is given his marching orders which Hollywood actor would you choose to play his part in the film about this special military operation?

I think Pete Postlethwaite but he is no longer above ground(didn't he play a rat in one role?)

Shao Kahn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796393#Comment_118796393

If you want to pretend that the analysis you are consuming is some sort of absolute truth, work away.

But in reality, it is someone's interpretation of events. And because you very likely have a desired outcome in your head, this is going to influence which interpretations are more appealing to your mind. Because you desperately WANT it to be true that Russia are tripping up and making mistakes. That's the danger of bias, when it comes to interpretations. And the media knows this. Which is why propaganda is so effective.

If you get 5 different military experts, and they give you 5 different interpretations of what they think is happening... (which I have actually encountered btw) Which version do you choose as your absolute truth?

And this is the reason there is very little point in me giving you alternative sources. It is very clear that certain people are gravitating towards analysis and interpretations that support their desired outcome. Their particular bias.

I want this war to end, but I am not really emotionally invested beyond the human aspect. I don't think the Russians are evil monsters, and I don't really swallow all this saint-like narrative of Zalensky or the Ukrainians. The truth is far more complicated than that.

If you buy into that rhetoric from the beginning, you are easy prey for anyone selling you interpretations that support this narrative. Which is why so many people easily believe stuff like "the ghost of Kiev" or "snake-Island" etc etc. You desperately WANT it to be true, which is not a good foundation when thinking critically or interpreting things.