Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154970#Comment_119154970

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154970#Comment_119154970

Oh for FFS don't insult my intelligence. You bleat about democracy and the "status quo". The STATUS QUO was to lend recognition to an externally fomented coup d'etat that toppled the Yanukovich government. Now before you get all cock-a-hoop about him...he was DEMOCRATICALLY elected. His overthrowal was a COUP. In his place were installed bought and paid for thugs like Yatsenyuk. After spending 5 Billion to orchestrate this coup d'etat, Victoria Nuland ("FCK The EU was her charming quote) was handing out chocolate bars to people in Kiev as her mates were slathering at the mouth thinking about turning over Ukraine's farms to Monsanto.

The support for the Kiev regime post-2014 sank to 9%. It's takes talent to be that fcuking despised. And you whine that the status quo wasn't part of the referendum deal when most of the electorate didn't even recognise the status quo.

As for your quip about a referendum "under arms".....outside of the anecdotes you want to believe about nobody being allowed to vote unless they gave a blowjob to an AK47 do you have a shred of evidence to corroborate your assertion or is it again just a case of "well I heard it and I like it"?

Get on a plane and take a holiday. Get away from all this. Take 10 days and fly to the beaches of Crimea and spend some time on the delightful Black Sea resorts. Get drunk, get laid, get a tan, and then come back after you've spoken to the population who are living under a brutal occupation. Smuggle your camera-phone to the cafes and gather some fotage of the locals who can't move without a little green man kicking over the table and asking them for their papers.

Send a postcard.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155046#Comment_119155046

A total pack of lies, you say. So are you saying categorically and with proof that the Crimean Referendum was conducted "at gunpoint"?

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156427#Comment_119156427

Yeah and that's why the Russians sent their police force to wander around Kyiv on day #1 ahead of their soldiers- a true genius level feint where not only did they carry out a gigantic feint where they lost 20% of their military assets (and much of their most proficient soldiers) they made it look like they were the most incompetent military in world history such that only the most gullible would believe it was a feint.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154970#Comment_119154970

"fake referendums", "totalitarian states".....what are you talking about. Now you just sound like a child making things up because the ball didn't bounce the way you wanted it to.Is an externally orchestrated coup d'etat part of your democracy playbook? No matter how corrupt or unpopular a head of stae is...a democratically elected one I might add, for that head of state to be violently overthrown with outside influence is a COUP D'ETAT and is anathema to the democracy that you seem so keen to trumpet.

So please, take a deep breath and think before you make a fool of yourself with your democracy talk and "play by the rules" gibberish.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155003#Comment_119155003

I don't know? Did they? Out of a population of 2.5 million that's a lot of people to be ferried out and put up for a while in order to skew an election. How many people per bus? 100? So 1000 buses would get 100,000 out. Wow. If the Russkis can't seem to feed 100,000 soldiers or equip them properly on the border of Ukraine in 6 months it must be some mean feat for them to get 100,000 Crimeans off on holiday in 5 days and that is only 4% of the population.

Like the Venezuelan flamingo nonsense. a population of 20 million have to eat flamingoes to survive. I think I read that there are some 40 to 50 thousand flamingos in Venezuela. So kill all of them and you have maybe a 6 person Sunday roast per flamingo. What did all the Venezuelans eat on Monday? Maybe 5 loaves and 2 fishes?

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156445#Comment_119156445

Yeah, the Russians sure love their democracy & individual freedoms.

True democrats they are.

Well known for it.

Detritus70

Looks like someone didn't have a date for last night.

myfreespirit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156449#Comment_119156449

Venezuela is entirely irrelevant to the discussion about the russian war of aggression, theft, destruction and murder in the sovereign independent state of Ukraine.

The "referendum" held in Crimea cannot be trusted simply because it was held under the aegis of russia, a criminal lying regime, capable of anything, to get its own way.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152285#Comment_119152285

Why do’nt we start by doing something about the Russian embassy in Ireland . And better still make a proposal for the EU to consider, EG, the EU to set up an embassy facility exclusively to represent those countries that want its embassy business to be managed through it. And it’s membership to be optional so that it does not create division.

the Russians cannot say that it is being cut off - it’s just another way of doing diplomatic business. If any EU member wants to continue on with direct representation then that’s ok also but it would give Ireland a unique opportunity to reduce the Ru embassy staff from 40 to 0.

It beggars belief what any/ most of the 40 are ‘up to’ - Ireland being such a small country with very little trade with RU.

A QUESTION. When any embassy want to bring in more staff or even rotate staff , do the embassy have to get permission from the hose nation. If that is the case , I’d love to know the reasons the Russians gave the Irish nation to justify its numbers.

how come that The Irish embassy in Russia has only 6 staff. And does that fig include cook, driver , etc, If Ru need 40 in. Ireland , then we would need 80 + in Russia - if only because of the Hugh potential to create exports

So , SENATE IRELAND, do something much more effective if you want to make a real difference. What you have done will be like water off a ducks back as far as Putin or his successors are concerned

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149962#Comment_119149962

“————‘ Will open up additional power and resources” . God help you , what are you talking about? Putin does not have to consult with anyone or for that matter refresh himself on any documents OR to make any new announcements to bring on additional resources and ‘more power to the war effort. HE WILL DO WHATEVER HE WANTS TO DO AND WHEN HE WANTS TO DO I T - FULL STOP

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149995#Comment_119149995

You stated that there were 33771 Jews massacred and those who carried this out were classified as NAZIs’ as a result. So in your opinion , what figure below 33771 would the perpretators not be classified as Nazis’

LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR RESPONSE BluePlanet

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156449#Comment_119156449

The word ‘deflection ‘ immediately comes to mind

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156430#Comment_119156430

You're a liar, spouting Russian fascist lies and are complicit in Russian genocide by actively denying it.

You're a troll, which sort remains to be seen.

Reported.

Sam Russell

Whatever about the Russians taking over parts of the Donbas and Luhansk, they appear to making substantial inroads into this thread.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156449#Comment_119156449

The word ‘deflection immediately comes to mind

johnnyskeleton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154958#Comment_119154958

Mod note:

If you want to argue in favour of this referendum please do so and you have made some valid, if debatable, points. But this "Azov thugs" were going to slaughter them stuff is fairly wild.

If you have reliable sources for this stuff well and good. But please dont assert random and inflammatory stuff

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156430#Comment_119156430

The overthrow of Yanukovych wasn't a "coup". Indeed he was democratically elected, but he was a Russian backed puppet bleeding the country dry, when he finally fled after having people murdered (back to Russia of course, where they keep him on ice) the Ukrainians discovered he had almost emptied the state coffers, whilst living an obscenely lavish lifestyle.

Should they have ousted him at the polls? Absolutely, but it's possible the country would have been bankrupt by then.

The core issue, as always, is Moscow constantly meddling with Ukraine, in their politics, annexing their territory, arming separatists, creating a proxy war in the East, culminating in an invasion based on complete lies. The Kremlin has always wanted to conquer and absorb Ukraine, and it's not the only territory they have those goals for.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156445#Comment_119156445

Russia was an autocracy which has quickly accelerated into totalitarianism. You are repeating it's propaganda.

pixelburp

To be honest I've kinda floated in and our of this thread cos it feels like we've hit the moral absolutism phase again, where Ukraine wasn't perfect therefore... something? A little lost here where certain trains of thought are leading.

Don't think it's a state secret that many countries east of the Danube struggle with issues of corruption - including those within the EU itself - but the Russian influence within them, including tinpot dictators strip mining the country's assets ala Ukraine, is both noted and flagrant. And either way: Russia invaded a sovereign nation; if Ukraine is to sand off the edges of its institutional issues? Ya don't start with a hostile invading force shelling the country into ruin, an incursion that coalesces all previously warring factions within the nation. Way to go Russia, soemtimes I wonder how you were ever a global power.

In other news: I see NATO leadership is chatting with Turkey to try and find a path for Finland and Sweden to join. I wonder how they'll square the Kurdish circle here.

In other other news: I see our own M Martin is speaking up for Ukrainian EU membership again. To circle back to issues of corruption, I'm honestly against it. We have enough problems with Hungary et al already.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157057#Comment_119157057

If we're talking corruption in eastern Europe, then present day Russia is off the scale compared to the others. How has Putin managed to amass a rumoured $200 billion fortune as President? We're clearly looking at a major league swindler and international criminal figure....deeply corrupt.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156993#Comment_119156993

When Pro-Russian Ukrainian politicians are demanding the Kremlin nuke Ukraine, one has to ask if Pro Russian Ukrainian politicians had the interests of Ukraine and its population uppermost in their thoughts:

https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1515836703910551555?s=20&t=t8sm34wH-MCNKaVfFGIcgg

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155769#Comment_119155769

How do you have so few posts if you registered in 2012? Took you a decade to collect your thoughts was it?

fash

https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1533104366319960064?s=20&t=rFnDqrTKs2pUSLgGM68zzg

A compare & contrast on positions 1 month ago & today. Warning: view on a big screen or with a magnifying glass to spot the difference.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158575#Comment_119158575

Maybe so but all the devastation (and class) lies on the Ukranian side of the border.

They will get their deserts* though in due course I have to hope.

* in longstanding reputation if nothing else.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156993#Comment_119156993

Yanukovych ordered snipers and other police forces to shoot at the civilians protesting against him peacefully at the Euro maidan. This is all documented.

Getting rid of monster like that is not a coup d'etat. Maybe in Kremlin troll's head.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157500#Comment_119157500

Yes, it's a different league. I said that before...

Russia is a FIFA World Cup, Ukraine is a county division.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156544#Comment_119156544

You are absolutely right. Let's go back to the buses in Crimea and the multitudes who were ferried out so they would not vote.

So, according to one or some, "would-be" Crimean voters were removed in order to skew or dilute the vote.

Is that accurate thus far?

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119145541#Comment_119145541

You say that Russia ILLEGALY anexxed Crimea.

Can you state what law was broken to copperfasten your illegality assertion?

I'm not an expert so I'm hoping that you know more about the law than I do.

How was it illegal?

(Just asking)

BurgerFace

It doesn't really matter now.

What we have here is something that will stay and outlive us all. I was speaking to my friend Alexander and he said that this will last 100 years. I asked him how he knew or could say such a thing and his answer was beautiful and prescient. He said, Northern Ireland was a temporary affair. And that was 100 years ago.

So, I would tend to tacitly agree. Ukraine is about to become a landlocked entity. The Russians will capture Odessa and then that's pretty much it.

And in 50, 60, 70 years our grandkids will look at a new map of Europe.I'm not saying that it will be better or worse, just different.

All the talk about how the Russians are retarded and how their tanks don't work is the fodder of amateurs. All the talk (and that's what it is...TALK) about Putin being a madman is futile and childish. Who took over Ireland? Was it Henry VIII? I'm sure he was called a big fat guzzling corrupt bastard who had his wife killed and then found another.....or maybe 5.

Ukraine is finished in its current format and when Putin is dead it will be split and splintered.

A shame, I think.....but watching the moth-eaten Ukraine flags being taken down is a tad sad. Will football games still have bullcrap blue and yellow flares going off in the stadium next August? And other such crap like "No Invasion" next to the scoreboard?

myfreespirit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160081#Comment_119160081

Was the Crimean referendum independently monitored and assessed?

Were the EU or OSCE invited by the Crimean authorities to monitor the voting and counting for the referendum?

No, they were not.

At best, therefore, the referendum results are suspect, at worst, the results are fraudulent and invalid.