Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Field east · 19-08-2022 7:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490798#Comment_119490798

God, Russia is so innocent in your eyes. Will you tell us why Russia is interfering, occupying annaxed various parts of sovereign countries eg Georgia, tTransnistra, Crimea, part of China.

XVII · 19-08-2022 2:46pm

democratic revolution.

jesus wept, some utter nonsense in this thread. Maybe you'd want to ask all the people who didn't agree with this "democratic revolution" how they felt about it? Ah no wait, they were murdered and raped by your heroes Azov, Aidar, Dnipro-1, Donbas, Kyev-1 and other Ukrainian battalions in a very democratic way.

and whoever brought up "it's all covered by invasion" excuse: yes, Russia did bring in an army to protect those who didn't agree with the "democratic revolution". How would you feel if UK would start murdering all the Irish living in NI just because they had a different view on the government?

God, Russia is so innocent in your eyes. Will you tell us why Russia is interfering, occupying annaxed various parts of sovereign countries eg Georgia, tTransnistra, Crimea, part of China.

no one ever said here that Russia is innocent. But it's time for people like you to start realizing that Ukraine is far from being innocent either like it's being painted in the media. It has been run by criminals for ages, it's as corrupt as Russia. There are NO free or democratic elections. Yes, they have started working on that lately but if we are talking in the context of 2014, they were VERY far from being innocent.

Gatling · 19-08-2022 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494071#Comment_119494071

Did you read all of that on RT and Sputnik

XVII · 19-08-2022 2:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494113#Comment_119494113

UN / OHCHR and Amnesty reports, something you most likely haven't heard of.

Gatling · 19-08-2022 3:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494148#Comment_119494148

Read them and laughed at them,in most of the reports there is little or no mention of the Azoz battalions other than claims from Russia .

Citing amnesty international 😂😂😂

And the Azoz battalions will go down in history as Hero's and legends in their defense of Mariupol not just from the last 6 months but holding off the Russians for 7+ years despite being out manned , outgunned and out equipped

XVII · 19-08-2022 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494307#Comment_119494307

"49. Other documented cases appear to be linked to the military presence in densely populated civilian areas, such as towns near the contact line, and general impunity. A man with a mental disability was subject to cruel treatment, rape and other forms of sexual violence by eight to 10 members of the ‘Azov’ and ‘Donbas’ battalions in August-September 2014. The victim’s health subsequently deteriorated and he was hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital34"

www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_14th_HRMMU_Report.pdf

keep laughing mate, it's very funny one.

XVII · 19-08-2022 3:41pm

And the Azoz battalions will go down in history as Hero's and legends in their defense of Mariupol not just from the last 6 months but holding off the Russians for 7+ years despite being out manned , outgunned and out equipped

yes, maybe in your brainwashed head but definitely not for any sensible person out there.

Fighting Tao · 19-08-2022 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494335#Comment_119494335

Back to day zero….Russia interference in Ukraine. There where the blame lies. That is when it all started. Mention whatever you wish happened since, as it is nonsense due to the fact that Russian interference is to blame.

XVII · 19-08-2022 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494363#Comment_119494363

back to my comment:

and whoever brought up "it's all covered by invasion" excuse: yes, Russia did bring in an army to protect those who didn't agree with the "democratic revolution". How would you feel if UK would start murdering all the Irish living in NI just because they had a different view on the government?

so you would be fine for people to be murdered because they didn't agree with coup / revolution / whatever you want to call it, right?

Gatling · 19-08-2022 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494358#Comment_119494358

Not brain washed,but your just another useful Idiot who thinks they know what they are talking about, when in fact you know very little about Ukraine but likes a little attention

XVII · 19-08-2022 3:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494381#Comment_119494381

oh really now.

I've been to Ukraine multiple times. Been to Odessa, Yalta and Mariupol in the past too. I have relatives living there as well.

Tell us now who are you, little internet warrior?

weisses · 19-08-2022 3:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494335#Comment_119494335

I think you need to go back a bit and at least acknowledge what started all this ... Something with Yanukovych not willing to sign the free trade agreement and political association treaty wit the EU, but instead choosing closer ties to mother Russia while In February 2013 the Ukrainian parliament had overwhelmingly approved finalizing the agreement with the EU. resulting in Russia (Putin) putting pressure on Yanukovych to reject it.

Chips Lovell · 19-08-2022 3:52pm

Mod Note

@Gatling @XVII if this is the standard of debate you're going to engage in, I suggest you open Twitter accounts. If you can't have a civil discussion, don't post.

Fighting Tao · 19-08-2022 3:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494377#Comment_119494377

If people are so desperate to be Russian and live under the Russian dictatorship then they should go and live in Russia. Without Russian interference in Ukraine, no civilians would have been killed during the Maiden protests or since. Stop trying to distract from that with what if questions.

Gatling · 19-08-2022 3:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494398#Comment_119494398

I smell something off your post.

Imagine I've been to Kiev twice not my favorite place to visit,cold and not a big fan of Ukrainan cuisine,but I've been discussing Ukraine on here for about 10 years now ,

I can't remember how many people Pop on boards with the stories of Ukrainan relatives talking about neo Nazis and how good Viktor Yanukovych was ousted by the CIA

XVII · 19-08-2022 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494412#Comment_119494412

why exactly do they have to leave the places where they've been living literally for several generations?

for them Russian regime is not great. But Kyiv one is even worse. Because all it brought to them is much worse living conditions. But why do you think they should leave? Would you leave yourself?

Gatling · 19-08-2022 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494440#Comment_119494440

The worse living conditions came after the Russians invaded 7 years ago

odyssey06 · 19-08-2022 4:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494335#Comment_119494335

Rubbish.

This is what you wrote:

all the people who didn't agree with this "democratic revolution" how they felt about it? Ah no wait, they were murdered and raped

So how many people / incidences are we talking about?

The report does not provide evidence to support your claim, and what abuses did occur seem to be distributed on both sides.

The overall trend of relatively low levels of civilian casualties, observed since the ceasefire of 1 September 2015, continued.

Despite repeated requests to the ‘authorities’ of the ‘Donetsk people’s republic’ and ‘Luhansk people’s republic’ to grant OHCHR access to places of deprivation of liberty on the territories they control, such access was not provided. All these factors considerably limit OHCHR’s ability to report on human rights abuses perpetrated on the territories controlled by the ‘Donetsk people’s republic’ and ‘Luhansk people’s republic’. Due to the absence of due process, redress mechanisms, and denial of access to external observers, OHCHR remains particularly concerned about the situation of individuals deprived of their liberty by armed groups

This is an updated report:

Based on the cases documented by OHCHR from 14 March 2014 to 31 January 2017, there are no grounds to believe that sexual violence has been used for strategic or tactical ends by Government forces or the armed groups in the eastern regions of Ukraine, or by the Russian Federation in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. Regardless of its scale, sexual violence, particularly in the context of a conflict, is a gross violation of physical integrity, and it may, under certain conditions, amount to torture or to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment. Some of the documented cases, when linked to the armed conflict, could amount to war crimes. 9. The majority of cases of conflict-related sexual violence documented by OHCHR in Ukraine occurred in the context of the deprivation of liberty by Government forces or armed groups. In these cases, both men and women were subjected to sexual violence. Beatings and electrocution in the genital area, rape, threats of rape, and forced nudity were used as a method of torture and ill-treatment to punish, humiliate, or extract confessions. Furthermore, to increase the pressure, the perpetrators threatened to also detain or abduct, rape, injure or kill relatives of the victims, especially their children. In the territory controlled by armed groups sexual violence was also used to compel individuals deprived of liberty to relinquish property or perform other actions demanded by the perpetrators, as an explicit condition for their safety and release. The majority of these incidents date back to 2014-2015; nonetheless OHCHR continues to receive testimonies indicating that such practice still occurs on both sides of the contact line and in Crimea.

https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/ReportCRSV_EN.pdf

Fighting Tao · 19-08-2022 4:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494440#Comment_119494440

Everything going on today has roots in Russia’s interference in Ukraine. Ukraine started to look to the west and wanted to improve everything for its citizens. Russia did not like that and interfered and then invaded. Day zero is when Russia starting interfering in a sovereign Nation. Every scratch any individual received due to conflict since then is completely Russias fault.

Gatling · 19-08-2022 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494461#Comment_119494461

And yet people regularly pop up stating we've all been brain washed by the MSM, along with the claims of the majority of Ukraine wants to rejoin Russia,the Ukrainians were carrying out genocide in the east of the country, Russia found tens of thousands of people in mass graves and they were all Russian,all killed by the Azoz battalions,

When you ask for proof of claims you get radio silence and claims they know the real truth about what is happening in Ukraine.

They won't accept what is happening in Ukraine is purely caused by putin and his desire to rebuild the soviet union

Podge_irl · 19-08-2022 7:02pm

For a 1,000 man battalion, the Azov sure do get around a lot according to the Russian media.

fash · 20-08-2022 7:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494071#Comment_119494071

Without pointing out that more than 50% of world's neo-nazis live in Russia (where, with state approval, they form a significant part of the military and also go around beating up/torturing/raping minorities etc), It's a pity you and Russia failed to find any evidence of any of this (for Russia, very conveniently) happening in Ukraine on any scale or (unlike in Russia) with state acquiescence - it would certainly have been helpful when making its case.

It's also a pity that the UN only found less than 3500 civilians killed- by the Russians, their proxies & as a consequence of the Russian invasion, the majority of whom were killed in 2014/15 when Russia invaded & 50% of whom were killed by landmines.

It's also a pity that Russia refused to allow the international criminal court to investigate any alleged crimes for which Russia was unfortunately unable to provide evidence.

What I further find interesting is that a long time Russian speaking Ukrainian friend of mine, who happens to come from Donetsk (as well as his wife, & his parents etc who still live in Donetsk ) have no idea what (for Russia, very convenient) alleged crimes against humanity, they and others like them were supposedly subject to.

Sometimes it almost seems as if the country acknowledged as the world's greatest proponent of and expeet in propaganda and disinformation may conveniently not be telling the whole truth.

fash · 20-08-2022 7:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119494377#Comment_119494377

Aside from the fact that it didn't happen, if it did happen, then that's what the UN is for.

Why do you so readily believe the convenient, evidence free excuses of warmongers?

"Iraq has WMD";

"Ukraine committed genocide - although nobody died, we don't have evidence & no, the UN, independent media or the international criminal court are not allowed access"

"Poland attacked Nazi Germany & persecutes Germans living in Poland, we need to invade"

pixelburp · 20-08-2022 7:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119495130#Comment_119495130

It's ludicrous. Their reach is completely overblown every time someone wants to victim blame Ukraine.

Makes you wonder where the Chechan barbarian forces figure in this noble peace-keeping act were supposed to believe the Russians are acting as. Not exactly winning hearts and minds when your liberators are chopping off heads. No wonder my russian speaking friend fled to his folks in the Western of the country

ilkhanid · 20-08-2022 9:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119495130#Comment_119495130

They were busy commiting ''genocide'' in Donetsk and Donbas for years and they were recently dug into the steelworks in Mariupol, being destroyed by the Russians, yet it seems they managed to get out, skip over to Bucha just after the Russians left just in time to seize a thousand people, torture and rape many of them ,murder them totally unknown to the inhabitants of the town so as to put the blame on the Russians and then get back to Mariupol in time to continue the fight. Astonishing fellows.

pixelburp · 20-08-2022 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496729#Comment_119496729

Give it a few more weeks and I'm sure the Azov will be present in the highest reaches of the Ukrainian government. Buzzword bingo will include "pulling the strings".

McGiver · 21-08-2022 8:36am

https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1560022545356791810?t=W2HtbBWClvOVII9cWdN4KQ&s=19

A story of a Red Army defector and his account of how Red Army operates. Very much inline with what we know and/or deduce about the massive corruption pervading the whole Russian mafia state including the army.

One must wonder how could the Russians even achieved any sort of territorial gains in the first months of the war with army in this state. They must have deployed the best they had, used KGB spies, used diversion tactics and bribed local authorities/army (reports on this from the Kherson Region) to get anything at all. And of course, use people as cannon fodder, the good old Russian tactic. The Russian military personnel losses must be massive. I think Ukrainian estimates are probably correct and not inflated.

Part 2 of the account, from the invasion itself:

https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1560355153441705984?t=N-y-cI-g7FB8aBNjUeKJVA&s=19