Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813388#Comment_119813388

A mutually beneficial agreement? Reward Russia for its war crimes?

Eh no.

Russia must not benefit from its illegal actions.

Ukraine must have a future in the EU and NATO. Rebuilt with Russian money - combination of seized assets and reparations. Return of all Ukranians seized by Russia.

Russian forces withdraw from Belarus and all Ukranian territory. All strategic weapons that could be used to attack Ukraine removed from Belarus. The future of Crimea and Donbas to be decided by independent international commission - but demilitarized of all heavy weapons and all resources stay under Ukranian or international authority - not Russian.

If that doesnt benefit Russia they should have thought of that before invading.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813475#Comment_119813475

You need to bring something to the table,

You must have some ideas or suggestions?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813475#Comment_119813475

Talks start.

Russia demands Ukranian territory as its own and that Ukraine cannot join NATO.

Ukraine refuses.

What then?

Which side do you think needs to compromise there and on what points and how will that lead to a lasting peace.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813434#Comment_119813434

Russia continuing their genocidal invasion against all logic and while haemorrhaging supplies, equipment and troops is why we don't have peace. But eventually they won't have much choice.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813512#Comment_119813512

It is not a dispute.

Russia has launched an illegal war of aggression to conquer and plunder Ukraine and bring it back to being a satellite state if Russia - otherwise Ukraine will eventually follow the democratic will of its people and align with the West.

Everything else is just a smokescreen.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811681#Comment_119811681

90% of the people discussing the war on the CA thread are that naive. They are like children. There is no intellectual debate. Black and white thinking. And there are clearly people getting off on the death, destruction & misery and I suspect they never want the war to end on the 'Orcs'.

Well 90% on that thread is literally the same six posters laughing at YouTube videos of people being killed and sniggering about 'Orcs'.

To be fair, they genuinely do seem to believe they are fighting the war from they keypads. The cardboard military men are comical.

Boards threads always descend into that kind of nonsense eventually. Like at the bottom of a bottle of good wine you sometimes find the dregs settled there.

I can guarantee you that if you met one of those lads on the Russia thread in real life you would be crossing the street to avoid them afterwards

Gatling

@[Deleted User] Well 90% on that thread is literally the same six posters laughing at YouTube videos of people being killed and sniggering about 'Orcs'.

There's more than 6 posters ,several of whom have real world combat experience , unlike the 50 or so banned trolls from the same thread .

Seems people are only interested in a slagging match while claiming to be in search of deep interlectual discussion on the invasion of Ukraine, which amounts to it's all Nato's and Americas fault and ukraine should surrender.

Childish nonsense for most part

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813617#Comment_119813617

How many have military experience fighting against a similar equipped army? Because blowing up goat haters and farmers in Afghanistan and a Iraq doesn't count. Also, for those who served in the Irish army, how much combat experience do they have? My guess is zero.

It's easy to talk **** about the Russian army when you don't have to face them in battle. And statistically if Boards uses truly represent the general population. Then a large percentage of posters are overweight or obese so as an above poster said they are keyboard warriors. Nothing more.

Gatling

@[Deleted User] It's easy to talk **** about the Russian army.....

Because they are ????

The same army that lost 30,000 men + and over 300 aircraft fighting goat Hearders in Afghanistan in the 80s

8 years ago Ukraine had next to no real army poorly equipped and trained,due to years of Russian corruption directly involved in the Ukrainan armed forces all senior officers were Russians citizens and loyal to the putin regime,

Now 8 years later the 2 best military in the world (claimed) invades for the 2 time and starts to get anilated in the air ,on the ground,on the water,

So desperate they have resorted to emptying prisons and old fat retiree's with no training or equipment, being flung into a lion's den of very hungry, very angry,young professionally trained, equipped and motivated lions dead set on taking back their territories and expelling the invading orcs .

No point slagging off the Irish defense forces or people on boards for your own short comings and Russia's military failures

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813772#Comment_119813772

Well finally, we agree on something. Russia did take the wrong approach when invading Ukraine they should have stuck to their normal battle doctrine instead of the blitzkrieg manoeuvre they initially attempted. Now they have switched back to their normal tactics. They seem to be doing ok and holding their own there's even talk. Not that you will believe it that they are advancing at least in one area oh and for such a s*** army they still hold around 20% of Ukraine.

And remind me what shortcomings do you think that I have? believe it or not. I do have some military experience myself.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813801#Comment_119813801

Holding their own? Have you been paying any attention to the last 2 months?

Their "normal tactics" of using artillery to destroy everything in front of them allowed them a painfully slow advance in the Donbas over the course of 2 months that they managed to almost completely lose in the course of 1 week in September.

Gatling

@[Deleted User] . Not that you will believe it that they are advancing at least in one area oh and for such a s*** army they still hold around 20% of Ukraine...

And loosing that 20% on a daily basis..

70,000 + dead ,

Hundreds of aircraft destroyed

Thousands of tanks and other armoured vehicles destroyed,

Ships sunk,

3billion euro bridge blown up .

According to you they are doing ok ......

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811681#Comment_119811681

Intellectual debate.???...I'll tell you where the most important "Intellectual Debate" is presently taking place at this very moment. It's on the battlefield, and the decisions taken there will be the important ones, and not armchair pontificating or reams of print about this or that element of the fighting or the political scene. The Ukrainian soldiers on the front lines, they are the ones whose opinions and views count. It all boils down to them. They have to defeat, and not only defeat, but completely destroy all Russian forces on the territory of Ukraine, and that includes Crimes, to the extent that it will be many years again before Russian can threaten anyone. Slava Ukraine.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813806#Comment_119813806

He's a legend.

Unlike the other russian fella

jmreire

Yes, an agreement where Russia removes all traces of its illegal occupation of Ukraine, (inc Crimea) Returns all of the kidnapped men women and children and pays reparations for the damage it has done. Now that's what you could call a damn good basis for permanent peace talks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813822#Comment_119813822

Now post the figures for the Ukrainian side. Go on. Tell me what are their losses like? I bet it's a damn sight higher than the Russian side. And the claim that The Russians are losing 20% a day is b******* but then again lots of what you post is pure b******* You're nothing more than a pro-American mouthpiece hope your buddies in the CIA are paying you well or at least giving you the reach around.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813873#Comment_119813873

None of these guys want to make any suggestions as how to end the war ....

But everyone's is wrong and it's all Nato's and Americas fault

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813876#Comment_119813876

Read the post,

I clearly said they are losing that 20% on a daily basis.

Not they are losing 20% on a daily basis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813617#Comment_119813617

Ah, Gatling. The man who claims eight years of posting on boards makes him a military genius.

The irony.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813876#Comment_119813876

Why don’t you post your figures for Ukrainian losses so?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813890#Comment_119813890

16 + year's posting on boards

Not a genius,but knowledgeable in a lot of topics and subjects.

Having a go at me won't change a thing for the Russians getting anilated in Ukraine as we speak

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813715#Comment_119813715

"How many have military experience fighting against a similar equipped army? Because blowing up goat haters and farmers in Afghanistan and a Iraq doesn't count. " ???? You mean the same goatherders who defeated both the British Army, and the Russian Army??? Just out of curiosity, what military experience do you have yourself? Because going by your knowledge of Afghan / Iraqi battle capabilities, not too much I'd say, but I could be wrong. Russian attacks in Syria (and elsewhere) were largely only carried out from high altitudes. Any time the Russians (or their proxies, Wagne in Syria) met the FSA on the ground, they came off 2nd best. Ditto in Afghanistan. The Goatherder's destroyed them on the ground when they met. The Russians were only ever any good flying their HIND helicopter gunships over farming villages and towns, same as they are doing now in Ukraine. If you ever get the chance to talk to a Russian soldier who survived Afghanistan, take it. Will be an eyeopener for you!!

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813434#Comment_119813434

You want to try and describe " Mutually Beneficial" ?

OOP's... has been asked already several times, Mea Culpa. Carry on. ( But in case you have a comment to make Beef, go right ahead )

Sorry about the long post. Came across this comment on Reddit and decided to post it here it is. Well worth a read or you could watch the YouTube video.

10 PRINCIPLES OF MILITARY PROPAGANDA "An entertaining collection of well-documented lies" On February 25, 2022, a video outlining the main points of historian Anna Morelli's book The Basic Principles of War Propaganda (2001), which draws heavily on British politician Arthur Ponsonby's book Lies in Wartime, was published on Youtube. circulated in Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy and America during the Great War" (1928). There are also links to these books, if anyone wants to get acquainted with the primary sources.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJbRKZ_CllI

Here is a transcript of the offscreen text. I sincerely wish everyone not to participate in the spread of "entertaining lies". === Today we will get acquainted with excerpts from the work of the French historian Anna Morelli, who in 2001 published a book called "Basic Principles of Military Propaganda". In this work, she draws heavily on the famous work of the British politician Arthur Ponsonby, Lies in Wartime, which was published in 1928 and described the main propaganda mechanisms used during the First World War. It is important to note that Morelli does not give his own assessment of the events, does not divide into good and bad, but only illustrates the principles of propaganda that are used by different parties in conflicts. So let's get to know them.

FIRST PRINCIPLE. "We do not want war, we are defending ourselves." According to Morelli, the leaders of the countries always assured that they did not want war. Infrequently, war is perceived positively by the population, and with the advent of democracy, the country's leadership needs the support of the population.

SECOND PRINCIPLE. "Only the enemy is responsible for starting the war." Morelli says each side claims they were forced to go to war to prevent the enemy from destroying values, endangering freedom, or destroying us altogether. This is a kind of paradox of war, a kind of "war is peace" Orwell. In accordance with this principle, the United States declared war on Iraq because, according to them, Iraq left them no other choice. The Americans are only defending themselves against the provocations of the enemy, who bears full responsibility for starting the war. Ribbentrop justified the war against Poland with the following words: “The Führer does not want war, but the decision on war and peace does not depend on him, but on Poland. Poland refuses, then the responsibility for the conflict lies with her, and not with Germany.

THIRD PRINCIPLE. "The leader of the enemy is a real devil and true evil." Morelli writes: “Instead of directing hatred at a group of people, it is much more effective to direct it at the leader of a hostile country. In this way, the enemy will have a face and become an object of hatred. The winner will always pose as a pacifist who loves peace agreements and cooperation, but the enemy allegedly forcing him to war. The enemy leader will be presented as a maniac, a monster, as was the case with Milosevic or Saddam Hussein."

FOURTH PRINCIPLE. "We are defending a noble cause, not our private interests." The economic and geopolitical goals of the war are carefully masked by some ideal and moral values. Values ​​can be different: the destruction of militarism, the protection of small states, the protection of democracy, and so on. Propaganda will convince the population that the war is being waged solely from noble motives. The fact that many wars are pursued by economic reasons is hushed up.

FIFTH PRINCIPLE. "The enemy is cruel and deliberately commits war crimes. Our army makes mistakes unintentionally." Morelli argues that stories of enemy atrocities are one of the key elements of propaganda. Brutality is part of war, but emphasizing that only the enemy commits atrocities turns stories of atrocities into propaganda. Moreover, military propaganda does not need real incidents, it needs to invent inhuman acts in order to expose the enemy as almost Hitler's alter ego.

SIXTH PRINCIPLE. "The enemy is using prohibited weapons." This principle complements the previous one. We do not commit atrocities, but on the contrary, we go to war like knights, we fight by the rules. For example, during World War I, each side accused the other of using chemical warfare agents.

SEVENTH PRINCIPLE. "Our losses are small, the losses of the enemy are huge." Propaganda obviously has to hide its own losses and exaggerate the losses of the enemy. So, for example, during the war in Iraq, there was a ban on the publication of the coffins of American soldiers, while the media talked about the gigantic losses of Iraq and claimed that the Iraqi army did not resist.

EIGHTH PRINCIPLE. "The intelligentsia and the creative elite support our cause." Morelli says that during the First World War, the intelligentsia predominantly supported their countries and leadership en masse. Artists, writers and musicians supported the interests of their countries in their fields of activity, from cartoons to the most resonant photographs that have a strong emotional impact on the audience, such as photographs of children amid devastation.

NINTH PRINCIPLE. "Our cause is holy." The war can be literally presented as a kind of crusade, backed up by a divine mission that cannot be evaded, it must be fulfilled. As an example, Morelli cites the war in Iraq, which has become a crusade, a struggle between good and evil. American propaganda presented as a duty the need to bring democracy to Iraq - a value that arose from the will of God. The war turned into the realization of the Divine will.

TENTH PRINCIPLE. "Whoever questions our propaganda, helps the enemy, is a traitor." This principle complements all others. Here, anyone who questions at least one of the principles is sure to indulge the enemy. There are only two sides: good and bad. You can only be for or against evil. It is impossible to give a dissenting opinion without the risk of media lynching. There is no more pluralism of opinions. Any opposition is silenced and discredited by false arguments. The same war in Iraq is cited as an example. To oppose war is to support Saddam Hussein. The same principle applies in other wars.

Gatling

No peace plan or suggestions for peace in Ukraine like the return of all occupied territories,.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813896#Comment_119813896

Your arrogant macho posting style is the definition of keyboard warrior. Pretending you have experience in warfare when in reality you just look at stuff on your screen.

You just spout words like Orcs, kill all Russki military and Slave Ukraini, because it makes you feel like a bigger man than you actually are.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119814075#Comment_119814075

Vs trolling, personal abuse, slagging matches,

Sounds like a wanna be bully

,it's a pretty sad state of affairs

So let's here your peace plan for ukraine while your here ,let's see is there anything to work with

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119814086#Comment_119814086

It's not personal abuse, it's my observation of you and your posting style. You don't like that fair enough but you're not a victim of anything here. I'm just telling you what I see.

With regards to your question about peace in Ukraine, there will be no peace until the Russians have gone.

Gatling

@[Deleted User] With regards to your question about peace in Ukraine, there will be no peace until the Russians have gone.

And to think I've given up hope of getting an actual answer other than some ranting and raving about something or other not realated to the war in Ukraine.

As is the usual mo

ilkhanid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813094#Comment_119813094

...and the cooperation of the Russian government with all international tribunals set up to investigate war crimes, coupled with an undertaking to hand over all figures, military, governmental and security apparatus that are shown to be involved in those crimes.