Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723143#Comment_118723143

Like stingy Americana who can't understand that the 90s are over.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723241#Comment_118723241

In terms of the perfect storm of economic damage, inflation, political division, ongoing election integrity issues, new commitment of forces abroad in Europe, trying to avoid nuclear war etc, I think it is.

bear1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722675#Comment_118722675

What? Right, I live in Warsaw. 300km more or less from the warzone. I'll go out on a whim and assume as I write this I'm the closest to the war than anyone on this thread.

Our currency has been decimated and I mean decimated. It now costs me a fortune to go anywhere within the eurozone.

Our fuel prices in one week have grown about 25c per litre. In a week.

The city is swamped with Ukrainian cars, refugees swamped at the border, poles going all over the place to help. Food and medicine in shortage because everyone is buying them to bring to the borders so the prices have sky rocketed for the rest of us.

Military all over the place and a sense of "are we next?" Over our heads.

And Russia are hating this? Off ta **** with that shite. No one attacked Russia, no one bothered them. They attacked, they threatened nukes, they've caused currencies to be worth next to nothing, they've caused our fuel prices and energy prices to become a thing of luxury.. people have lost their homes, father's dead as they can't leave the country, Ukraine is essentially destroyed.

Hating this? What complete and utter shite

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722557#Comment_118722557

The West pushed their hand?

Russia reduced gas output to the EU and Moldova (Who relies 100% on their gas supplies and had elected a pro EU leader a few weeks previous) and increased the cost while at the same time making deals with China to build pipelines. This was towards the end of last year. There is no gas shortage.

The invasion of Crimea and Donbas was to take control of vast shale and sea gas fields. Ukraine has huge reserves, on par with Iraq. In 2012 Dutch Shell signed agreements with Ukraine and started development on their gas production systems. In 2014, the Russian puppet in charge was overthrown and then the Russians moved in as quickly as they could and secured what they could. Subsequently Shell pulled out and Russia crushed Ukrainian gas supplies, ultimately cutting them off.

Now we have a full scale invasion, primarily for the natural resources with the strategic gains being secondary. The thing is, those strategic gains are not iron clad, they can at least pillage the gas supplies for as long as possible. They cannot guarantee safety from the west by subduing a nation in this way, there will be a long drawn out incursion. Russia is now a pariah state and have China as their only trade partner, who no doubt will want to keep them at arms length and at the same time take great advantage of the Russians who are now on the ropes.

They done this to themselves. The greedy Oligarchs chose to invade Ukraine. They chose to start to drift towards China and they chose to continue withdrawing from the west while their main trading partner depends much, much more on the west than they ever will Russia. At no point did Russia have the upper hand in this situation, it was always China and they got played. Their own ego, their delusion of grandeur has ruined a nation and it has contributed to many pointless deaths.

The Russians have no one to blame but their Oligarchy.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723124#Comment_118723124

Just a note, fax is still useful because it creates a reliable timestamp. Useful for legal and financial documents. Sure there are new digital ways to do this, but it's not uncommon to see adoption of new technology being slow in these environments.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723460#Comment_118723460

In that context it is understandable now but it's not why they do it.

Email is an up and coming thing in Germany. The Idea that you could send an email on a train is a step too far Yet though.

Off topic so I'll leave it at that but it's all stuck in the 90s

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723124#Comment_118723124

What on earth could have happened in the 90s in Germany that cost them a lot of money? I can't think of anything that happened at the start of that decade in Germany. Not one thing. Anyone?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723601#Comment_118723601

That's 30 years ago. Countries like Sri Lanka, Thailand, Kenya were still being electrified in the 90s.

Every one has an excuse, they still wouldn't tolerate the basis interest service that much of Germany have now, nor would those doing business with them.

No shame in investing in essential services, modernity, staying relevant. It's a testament to German efficiency and diligence that they get away with it

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723580#Comment_118723580

Dam it. Your making me wish I knew German now. It sounds great. I would miss decent Internet do.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723755#Comment_118723755

You have a good point.

AMKC

So thinking about the Ukranian people last night and one thing they have that they should use against the Russian army is the power of media. If some of them walked up to that convey with white flags and showed them the real news maybe convince them what they are doing is wrong and even turn them to fight any Russians that will not turn. Its worth a try.

I can't believe how quiet it is in here. Must have been very little happen last night which is a good thing if that is the case.

AMKC

I see that other demented moron Sergio LeBron is talking on Sky. Why are they even broadcasting him? We know he like Putin is not right in the head.

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724017#Comment_118724017

Yes, I was relieved to see Kharkiv hasn't fallen when I woke up

Capt'n Midnight

Other firms listed here

Maersk (container ships) is a huge one. DHL won't be making deliveries to Russia either.

Oil prices going up even though alternative supplies have increased because Russian oil isn't being bought because you have to get tankers in and out of the Black Sea. The Turks have already closed the straits to Russian warships , TRT said it's a war so the Montreal Convention got triggered.

WION Indian news - just debunked claims that Ukraine were holding Indian hostages as human shields. So I'm guessing that's from propaganda or trolls on Indian social media.

Sky channel 523 - FTA / Freesat 28E DVB-S 11625 V 27500 2/3 QPSK

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724017#Comment_118724017

There isn't a chance in hell of any Russians actually fighting their own, and as more guerrilla tactics get used anyone approaching flag or not or even those large crowds in front of tanks will be treated as hostile. Russians aren't going to have the same scrutiny as the US applied to them.

Varik

Personally think Russia will hold back for a while.

They've no hesitation to level the cities, and the more people they drive west the less they've to deal with and the more the EU has to.

It's hit 1m now in Poland, and some estimates have this going up to 4m but if the Russians want it higher I can see 10m or more crossing.

Capt'n Midnight

CNN saying China asked Russia to delay the invasion until after the Olympics.

May have a knock on effect on trade.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724522#Comment_118724522

Its a lot harder to get soldiers to fire into unarmed crowds in front of them than you seem to think. It can be done, of course, but it tends to involve dehumanising the "enemy" significantly, something Russia have very much failed to do here.

hotmail.com

Doubtful Ukraine will be admitted to the EU as their economy is in dire straits.

liamtech

IMHO - this is my take on the current media situation

The below are links to what seems to be the Official Ukrainian English language media - the Youtube channel is carrying all official statements from the Ukrainian Government, including its Foreign Legion Recruitment Video. Many videos are clearly being targeted by Pro Russian users, with some comments accusing said country along similar lines to Official Russian Accusations (NAZI, Ultra Nationalist, Western Puppet, Coup).

https://www.youtube.com/c/UATVEnglish/videos

https://uatv.ua/en/

IMHO, while acknowledging the above may exaggerate Russian casualties, they are useful links to have. Yes, they include the (as of yet unconfirmed) Ghost of Kiev, i would personally forgive this. Britain, shortly after the fall of France in 1940, engaged in similar media stunts. Including urging civilians to gather scrap metal to aid in the war effort. After the war, it was acknowledged that said project was a PR Campaign to bring unity at a dire situation. And while some metal was indeed recycled and used, the main task was public unity, and it succeeded.

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/feature/recycling-win-second-world-war

So if the Ghost of Kiev exists - yes he/she is a legend, and the 21st centuries first 'Ace in a Day' (5+ take downs in 24hrs) - If he/she doesnt exist, the campaign is a noble one from a morale building point of view.

In terms of the 'pro Russian' statements, both here, and on other media. I would hypothesize that we can divide these into two camps:

• the first is obvious Russian and Moscow aligned proxies, who will simply attack/condemn/deny/distort anything coming from the Ukrainians. For anyone who has any doubt that this is not the case, i provide a link to an 'American Twitter User' who is claiming that many videos showing fighting, and Russian attacks, are in fact 'disinformation' - When examined further, this 'American' seems fond of citing/tweeting the 'North Korean Official State News Releases'; in fact this seems to be all they tweet - while i have no proof, i dont think it is mere speculation to conclude that this account is fake, and is an example of what can now be expected on a regular basis

https://twitter.com/realdillonwise

• The second are what can unflatteringly be referred to as 'Useful Idiots' - This sadly includes some Irish Politicians including Claire Daly, and Mick Wallace. Who continue to make soundings condemning NATO Expansion and Aggression. We could include the likes of George Galloway in this camp, although he is considerably worse in my view, and has been on RT since the invasion, 'ranting' about the hypocrisy of the west etc. With the caveat that i am giving my opinion here, i would also include in this camp, those people who are misdirecting their anger of other conflicts (Palestine, US-Iraq War etc), in a general anti western way. This is, IMHO, not helpful. But they are obviously free to express their opinions, in what ever medium they chose. Certainly they are not as overt as the likes of Galloway.

Finally there is the question of what is ACTUALLY going on in Moscow/Russia proper - and this is complicated. On one hand we have the likes of Alexander Povetkin (former Russian Boxing champion) backing Russia -

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing/alexander-povetkin-claims-russia-fighting-26347792

On the other hand, we have twitter users in Russia providing links/videos of protests against the war, including one GHASTLY tweet showing an elderly survivor of the Siege of Leningrad being arrested and taken away by Russian Police

https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1499080826599919633?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499080826599919633%7Ctwgr%5Ehb_0_8%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fdiscussion%2F2058195983%2Frussia%2Fp574

I know there have been some complaining about 'link dumps' - i completely understand but i would argue this; We are not going to get many(if any) official stories of protests from within Russia. I could have included a link for the above tweet, carried by an official News Agency. it has been picked up by several western media outlets. But i think it appropriate to include it in its raw form. That said, i welcome discussion around this. I am attempting to post in line with the policies of this forum but obviously if the Mods have an issue, i understand completely and wont dispute their position

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724681#Comment_118724681

Saw that but as usual no named source.

I was really disappointed Biden carried on Trump's China bashing baton. Fox News sells the internal domestic threat and CNN sells external international threats. The USA like Russia is controlled with fear.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724522#Comment_118724522

"Russians aren't going to have the same scrutiny"

The whole world has sanctioned them. The same world that patted Bush on the back.

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725089#Comment_118725089

By their own people

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724860#Comment_118724860

Harder now, but how many ambushes or surprise attacked before they don't assume they are unarmed.

liamtech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GssYjPXBE08

The above is a decent video, from 25 Feb this year. It analyzes the arguments used domestically to justify the war in Ukraine. i find it very disturbing and the language used is Vile. Includes contributions from Western Policy analysts and foreign Russian Academics

• Refers to Ukrainian Govt as Dogs that need to be put down
• Refers to the essay (8 odd months old) that declares Ukraine an 'invented state'
• Refers to argument that 'All Russians should belong to a Unified Russian Nation'

I consider it worth a watch, and it is from CBC Canadian news - so we can absorb with little caveat (IMHO)

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725356#Comment_118725356

Dehumanising language by a government should always be a massive red flag for an impending crime against humanity.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718347#Comment_118718347

Maybe they just have other things to be doing at the moment than filing for inquests?

ODriscoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721499#Comment_118721499

Very good points.

I have no idea anymore than anyone else, but doubt the simplistic news we are getting.

I can see no statement from any Putin source that claims they were expecting a quick victory! Putin really would be mad if he thinks he can take all Ukraine, unlikely he is that stupid.

Even the much repeated 'stories' about lack of fuel, holding up the long Russian convoy, far more likely they know its a kind of trap to move any faster, could be heavily mined for all we know.

More likely Putin for now is after specific areas, the entire southern coastal peninsula above crimea, the east a wide buffer zone beyond than the 2 self declared ethnic Russian republics and some of the north maybe.

Any more objectives would be logistically impossible to hold for long in any form of stability.

There are reports that 'ukranian' forces (not sure if regular Ukranian army or their far right militia) were retreating strategically from the east and then mass shelling villages with artillery. If you accept these reports then neither side are paying much care to civilians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3F3dh8pCIs

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726410#Comment_118726410

Fair bang of propaganda off this post.

Even got a mention shoehorned in about the far right

eastie17

why would any sane person "accept those reports"? Sounds like your a bit of a Russian apologist from the content of your post, so you haven't heard a statement from a Russian source that he was presuming a quick victory. Mustnt be true then I guess is the conclusion you would like us to take. What about the opeds they had prepared and got published by mistake after Day 3.

Where are these credible reports you mention that the Ukranians are shelling their own people?