Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736015#Comment_118736015

Transnistria could be a problem. As it's a Russian recognised bit of Moldova beside Ukraine. The rest of Moldova could in theory reunify with Romania as the lesser of evils.

xper

Moldovia’s airspace is closed to all transiting air traffic, regardless of origin, for safety reasons, similar to a large tract of Russian airspace north and east of Ukraine. It’s not due to any sanctions directed at any particular country or bloc.

Capt'n Midnight

98% of Ukrainians – including 82% of those of Russian ethnicity – said they did not believe that any part of Ukraine was rightfully part of Russia. (1,040 adults in Ukraine were interviewed by telephone between 1 and 3 March 2022. Results have been weighted to be representative of all adults in Ukraine.)

So much for anyone suggesting there is support in Ukraine to join Russia.

Their situation is very like Ireland's was in the past. A massive famine where the worst effects were because of impositions by a foreign government. The civil rights in NI and the treatment of NI by Westminster give parallels to why Ukraine wouldn't want to be Belarus. Looking at how powerless the SNP are in Westminster shows how much influence Ukraine would have in a parliament where 89% and of the Duma voted through the 15 year/5 year hard labour law for fake news. (No votes against , no abstentions)

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735856#Comment_118735856

On the first page (before war started) I wrote that Putin already made his biggest mistake and will only double down on stupid by invading, I am afraid I underestimated this, he put a revolver to Russian economy and happened to draw the part of the barrel with the bullet.

I think Putin might yet get his wish and get that chapter in history books alongside Lenin and Stalin and Peter and Catherine the Great, but the heading will be “Putin the Imbecile”

Indeed, the Russia's 'threatening moves' prior to the invasion have turned out to be the equivalent of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tInMR7QQUVc

liamtech

Just some general thoughts

• Iv seen a few asking what the UN could do. Well there is general condemnation of Russia, and growing impatience with their representative. The walkout during Lavrov's speech (Lavrov is IMHP a 21st century Joachim Von Ribbentrop at this point) should be noted. However if anyone proposes the UN send in peacekeepers, unfortunately that is out of the question. I say this 'factually' btw, in my heart i would favor such an intervention. But it cannot happen. The UNSC would be required to agree to such an intervention. And this will not happen, due to Russia's VETO. If you examine any UN peacekeeping initiative you will see political reasons for said interventions. The Korean War for example. One might wonder how this took place with a UN Rubber Stamp; It was due to Russian 'abstention' in response to China being represented by Taiwan, as opposed to Beijing. (This was in fact the first signs of a Sino Soviet split, as Russia could have intervened, but used Taiwan as an excuse not to)
• In terms of certain parties who are rambling on about 'Ukrainian Far Right Nationalists', in a horrid attempt to equivocate on this issue. Historically, this always occurs during conflicts. Said users may attempt to justify their argument based on failings of USFP, and an unwillingness to see the stark 'black and white' nature of what is occurring atm. I dont think there is anything we can say that will change their minds. I intend to reply to the posts, but the messages are 'not being received' in my view. Others can and will respond in their own way, but i reiterate. This situation is Black and White. What we are witnessing is a War of Aggression. While normally frowning on comparisons of modern world leaders, with the NAZI German Leadership - the comparisons are appropriate at this stage.
• In terms of the international communities response. I dont think its an exaggeration to state that the entire democratic world has reacted with outrage. There will undoubtedly be the examples of Undemocratic regimes who will continue to do business with Russia. however be under no illusion, Russia is 'toxic' at this point. I cannot see serious U-Turns, or even semi 'normalizations' being met with anything other than stark condemnation. We have even seen large multinationals voluntarily refuse to do business with Russia (Samsung, Apple, Nike, Google, etc), and this should not be underestimated

In terms of the worst case scenario - That Kiev Falls, and the Ukraine is over run - i would predict the following response

• Continued measures in line with the above International response
• I expect that no western Country will acknowledge a changing of the borders RE Ukraine. Therefore if Ukraine is absorbed into Putins Russia, this will not be accepted, or acknowledged
• If a Satellite State (or multiple states) are created within the territory of the Ukraine Proper, i cannot see any democratic state accepting diplomatic relations with it. Embassies around the world should not be turned over to any Moscow backed Ukraine Puppet.
• Relations should continue with the only legitimate Ukrainian state - That is the Zelenskyy government. Be it in exile, or perhaps existing in a dramatically reduced geographical region (perhaps with a capital in Lviv, if Kiev is over run) - This IS the UKRAINE.

I wonder whether the volatility in energy prices and the complications of depending on other nations like Russia for energy will rapidly accelerate the transition to renewables and EVs.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736015#Comment_118736015

They have several thousand Russian peacekeepers permanently based in part of their country ,they already know they are in a precarious position in all of this ,a few years ago Russian media started a broadcast in Moldova saying the economy had completely crashed trying to force a run on the banks ,the Moldovan government came out and said it was lies mean while Moldovans citizens blockaded Russian bases to prevent them from taking to the streets

hotmail.com

Pressure for Ukraine to surrender will begin to mount as casualties rise.

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736259#Comment_118736259

Few problems with that; first is the issue of consistency of energy generation (wind power is great until the day it does not blow which has been an issue this winter for example), second is the cost to not only install but to connect and run all the new ways to generate heat, third is look at the material that goes into them and where they come from. For example Russia is the world's largest exporter of Palladium which is required for the fuel cells that goes into EV vehicles etc.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736299#Comment_118736299

Doubt anyone in Ukraine are considering the option of surrender ,I'm sure they will gladly accept the surrender of Russia ,they have already taken hundreds of Russians who have surrendered ,there is very high moral amongst the Ukrainian military and civilians

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736313#Comment_118736313

The first problem can be solved by diversifying the source. For example, not relying on wind power alone. On the second, the cost could be worth it if it meant not relying on rogue states. Third point is valid.

Probably best we don't digress into an energy debate, I'm just questioning whether we should continue to rely to heavily on Russian gas in Europe.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735856#Comment_118735856

The takeaway is the Chinese will be looking to divest themselves of dollars/US bonds.

We could see the end of the dollar as the global reserve currency.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735136#Comment_118735136

This guy isn't Irish but yes he is exactly like that. He doesn't trust authority figures at all. It's a personal thing with him. He doesn't trust the bosses in work. He doesn't trust the other companies we work with. He's actually a generally paranoid person on a personal level. He's the only person I knew who used lock his deskside locker at the end of every day (he didn't trust the cleaners) and he told me that he had a computer at home that he never connects to the internet or any networks. He's also a libertarian - basically thinks he should be free to do whatever he wants so the idea of restrictions made him angry.

None of the above annoyed me too much. What annoyed me was that he was repeating clear and obvious lies - things that a child could prove to be falsehoods long after everyone else had made it clear that they weren't interested in hearing them anymore. What's worse is that he was contemptuous of everyone else for not believing them. He's be the kind of dose to use the work "sheeple" for example. Like ok buddy you go and believe your crackpot theories but don't try and judge others for not believing in your nonsense.

Anyway this has nothing to do with Ukraine so I won't discuss it further

/rant

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736338#Comment_118736338

But do you think people will buy into something set up by china and Russia ,

Don't think the dollar will be going anywhere ,it's still going to the global reserve currency for the very distant future ,

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735130#Comment_118735130

Do you believe that every captured Russian is being given tea and biscuits and a talking to?

Or is this one side of the narrative?

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736323#Comment_118736323

Ukraine potentially have several milion men of fighting age.

They won't give up attacking Russian troops whatever happens

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736372#Comment_118736372

And weapons are flowing into the country from Nato ,14 cargo aircraft landed in Poland yesterday with their cargo being delivered across the border to ukraine , that's a serious amount of weapons and supplies rolling in to support the Ukrainians defense,in 9 days the Russians have already lost more men, tanks , aircraft than America did over the combined time of Iraq and Afghanistan over 20 year period ,I think that's staggering

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736369#Comment_118736369

Can you provide anything to provide other wise because this sounds a little laoded ,

It seems across the board ukraine are treating POWs very well , wasn't it Russia who was grabbing Ukrainian military personnel inside ukraine and bringing them to Moscow for sham trials ,for Ukrainian soldiers defending their own country inside their own Borders not russia

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736427#Comment_118736427

Torture of prisoners on BOTH sides has been well documented prior to the recent invasion so why believe this has now magically stoped?

The Red Cross has Ben called on to investigate the torture of recent Russian POWs.

Has Ukraine not stated that they will no longer take artillery units prisoner because of indiscriminate shelling of civilian targets?

Certainly if you are to be completely in sceptical and unquestioned believe the propaganda all Russian soldiers are given cigarettes, tea and cake and allowed to call their mothers.

At least when the cameras are rolling.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736426#Comment_118736426

What’s the point in a country having trillions of reserves if they can’t be accessed at the whim of the US?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736458#Comment_118736458

Sceptical,

Nah I'm calling something else ..

I think it's effort to try demonise the Ukrainians as some kind of Bogeymen like in other threads that usually go it's all NATOs fault , American did this and America did that ,

I've been waiting hundreds of videos of the Russian invasion of Ukraine and I've yet to see Ukrainians treat prisoners badly ,they certainly haven't been tortured and sent to another country to face sham trials as we seen in eastern Ukraine when Ukrainian soldiers were captured and sent to Moscow to face sham trials .

Somethings just never change

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736411#Comment_118736411

How many's that, and is there a source? Just genuinely curious cos I had been thinking exactly how severe the losses had been - accounting for ukrainian exaggeration and their own slanted media ( I refuse to call anything inherently based on existential defence "propaganda" as it has inherently malevolent, duplicitous connotations).

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736458#Comment_118736458

If it's well documented then a few links should be easy for you to pop up there

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736566#Comment_118736566

Ukraine are saying they've killed 9,000 Russians (which is a massively, verging on implausibly, high number). The US had 7,054 soldiers killed in action in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia themselves say they've had 498 soldiers killed in action so far.

Even the figure of 498 seems high, by comparison they had 15,000 soldiers killed in action in their Afghan war, which lasted a decade.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736559#Comment_118736559

Scepticism isn’t something to discard in times of conflict.

If anything war calls for increased cynicism rather than unquestioning belief.

You say you haven’t seen Ukrainians release any videos of Russian POWs being mistreated therefore they must all be treated to tea and biscuits like the propaganda videos portray.

Right?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736724#Comment_118736724

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/un-documents-prisoners-torture-abuse-in-ukrainian-conflict-prisoners-united-nations-russia-kyiv-donetsk-b1877283.html?amp

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736566#Comment_118736566

This guy documents hardware losses in the conflict based on verified evidence. Despite the big losses recorded, he himself acknowledges it's just the tip of the iceberg and says the loss rate is extraordinary compared to Iraq or Syria (which he also covered).

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

AbusesToilets

I find it incredible that Russia continues to conduct daylight airborne operations. Very stark contrast in comparison to the US/ Nato forces, in terms of capabilities.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736458#Comment_118736458

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6v3nnxOrh4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8MajqG-ZSg

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17822554/moment-starving-russian-soldier-surrenders-cries-to-mum/

The Ukraine has everything to gain from NOT torturing or Mistreating Russian POW's

• They continue to highlight the illegal nature of Russian actions, not just to the world, but to the Russian People. Torturing POW's undermines these aims
• The Ukraine has everything to gain from sowing descent/discord in Russian ranks, by making it clear to Russians that surrendering will result in no ill treatment
• By adhering to the above, the Ukraine can and will (and has) maintain the moral high point. It is theirs by right given the Russians have broken international war, but by treating Russian POW's humanely, they only amplify this position

Compare the above position to that of Russia

• Ukrainian soldiers are 'Nazis'
• Ukrainian citizens are being 'held hostage' and used as 'human shields'
• Ukrainian population has been 'brainwashed', to deny that they are, in fact, 'Russians'
• Documented cases of Russians and Pro Russian Seperatists being bus-ed into occupied territories to stage 'Pro Putin Demonstrations'

I will not (yet) go as far as to say Russia has something specific to gain from torturing - HOWEVER

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-699343

They have stated the above - official - statement on what they will do RE foreign volunteers fighting with the Ukraine.

Bottom line is that this conflict remains Black and White - continue to equivocate and offer false equivalencies if you will. - also please provide a link to back up this statement

"Has Ukraine not stated that they will no longer take artillery units prisoner because of indiscriminate shelling of civilian targets?"

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736815#Comment_118736815

Dated July 2021