Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

moon2

What if nato didn't do what you just said. What if they simply defended Ukraine from attempted genocide? Recapturing and defending Ukrainian borders doesn't require invading and annexing Russia.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756443#Comment_118756443

That's just bluster and nothing else ,nato are involved they are arming Ukraine and supplying real time intelligence on Russian forces inside ukraine ,

We're already at ww3 it just hasn't been declared

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756745#Comment_118756745

Nuclear bluster?Sounds like fun .

We are trying to get out of this alive.

pixelburp

Further with the ongoing issue of Chernobyl being in Russian hands, looks like power has been cut off completely, albeit according to ukranian sources - maybe the Russian forces have hooked it up to "something" but I defer to those with expertise on nuclear power plants

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/09/chernobyl-power-supply-cut-completely-after-russian-seizure-warns-ukaine

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756198#Comment_118756198

Another false equivalence. And always they try to create false equivalence to benefit Russia.

What meddling was going on?

Was it on the same scale from one side as the other?

Why don't you point that out in your posts. Instead it is one liners like "Russia were not the only country..."

Why are they always one liners creating false impression what one side has done was on the same scale \ transgression as the other?

So it has to be dragged out of you by other posters and then you get defensive?

"Methinks the lady doth protest too much".

That's why multiple posters on the thread have called you out for being a Putin apologist. Maybe thats not your intent but your posts seem to skew that way.

busunderer

Paddy taxpayer about to be rode good and hard based on Helen McEntees words on Radio 1 News at 1

generous freebies for any amount of Ukies

tooka

My take is It’s impossible to know exactly what’s going on in Ukraine.

according to western media it’s either Ukraine are winning the war or Russias plan is not working due to a mix of incompetence, cowardice and stupidity.

if russias plan was to first air strike all key Ukrainian infrastructure, secondly slowly move their way through Ukraine and encircle and cut off from food and supplies Kiev and other cities, and when this was achieved use air strikes to force depopulation and surrender of these cities than I think their plan is working

many people have said putin might be taken out by his own and maybe he will but I think there is a better chance zelinsky will be taken out by his own if Kiev is being smashed and he won’t surrender

just my thoughts

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756824#Comment_118756824

well compared to our near neighbours we're showing a bit of compassion

ambro25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756405#Comment_118756405

Reportedly, none so far.

Whereby the Belarus commander tasked to put the pro-Russian Belarusian contingent together, resigned.

That was 2-3 days ago, IIRC.

Seen a few squads of ex-Belarusian Army volunteers fighting for Ukraine on social media. Also videos of anti-war protests and muscly arrests in Belarus.

Edit - here:

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1500407854062354432?s=20&t=Uq8t8lQO4ssugsNqLv5wtA

Detritus70

Before reading this, yes I am very well aware that Western forces engaging Russian forces directly is a very bad thing. But bear with me.

There is a tiny part of me that wonders if Putin would really launch nukes if there were some undercover western troops operating in Ukraine. We could just use the Putin excuse book, "What uniforms, sure you can buy these anywhere, no we're just regular Ukranians, doing regular Ukranian stuff" and "we're holding manoeuvres, what you mean war? According to you guys there is no war" and of course "we know where Putin is and we have 100 nukes aimed at his ass, whatcha gonna do?"

My theory being that Putin would indeed launch nukes if Russia's territory was attacked directly, but what would happen if peacekeeping or undercover units were in Russia's way in Ukraine at any give opportunity, would Putin launch over something he can't directly prove? And if Putin is willing to launch on a whim in any case, then this indicates that this madman needs to be stopped and put in his place.

In short, my bet is that Putin won't launch nukes when we interfere in his illegal war against a soverign country since he has no business being there in the first place. At least if we use the exact same bullsh*t playbook Russia does. Maybe we should throw down the chips and demand to see Putin's hand, because I say he's bluffing. He won't risk WWIII over Ukraine.

tooka

As far as I am concerned Any westerner calling for nato intervention in Ukraine either directly or indirectly should fly to Poland and make their way to Ukraine and grab a gun and join the fight

or just shut up

Any assumption that Putin is "mad" will inevitably lead to silly conclusions.

I really wish people would stop doing that. He isn't mad or insane, his actions are fairly predictable and in character with how he's been behaving and speaking for many years now.

He seems pretty rational to me, even if his actions are deplorable.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756824#Comment_118756824

It was only a matter of time before seeing this kind of begrudgery - I just didn't think it'd start in the first fortnight.

Quin_Dub

I would not be at all surprised if there are NATO aligned "advisors" already in Ukraine - People that can be disavowed if necessary , but there to train or provide intel pathways to Ukrainian troops, but each operating solo.

They'd be easy enough to hide among all the foreign volunteers that have been coming in.

I can't see a move up to unit sized operations though.

tooka

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756966#Comment_118756966

How many you putting up?

Irish_wolf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756861#Comment_118756861

Agreed. People don't realise how much of this war is being fought using information and media. Ukrainian propaganda would have you believe that the Ukrainians are routing the demoralised starving Russians with ruthless efficiency and holding the lines in glorious defiance. The Russians would have you believe that everything is going according to plan and the losses are over reported and the delays, just minor inconveniences. Somewhere in the middle is the truth, but we will not know the real story for many years I would say. We need to be very careful speculating based on information as it comes to us. War creates chaos and confusion and we see only a snippet of the real story.

I really think the government need to run a campaign about awareness of consuming this war time propaganda. It can be extremely damaging as we have seen from the truck attack on the Russian Embassy. A normal-ish (for Ireland) man driven to extremes because of the upsetting images from the war. There are ordinary people leaving their wives and kids to take up arms in Ukraine. If they are killed we will never know, if they are captured I dread to think what will happen. If we were a middle eastern country the world would see this as radicalisation.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756824#Comment_118756824

Well lube me up cause this taxpayer is ready and willing

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756901#Comment_118756901

If you are willing to launch nukes in any capacity whatsoever I think you are beyond caring if there is proof for your excuse or not.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118757006#Comment_118757006

The truth won't be somewhere in the middle. It will be a lot closer to the Ukranian side than the Russian.

Of course, in a war we can expect a certain bigging up of how things are going. But Russia's flat our lies are all encompassing.

The upsetting images from the war that you seem concerned about weren't faked were they? How were they propaganda? People reacted to the reality of what Russia was inflicting.

Should the government hide this reality or shouldn't people know what's going on?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756745#Comment_118756745

If what you describe is WW3 then we have been in WW3 since Korea in the 50s

busunderer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756966#Comment_118756966

Begrudge ? Its economic reality unless you are a clown.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756961#Comment_118756961

Well - If the question is "Putin has gone mad" then I'd agree his behaviour is consistent with his actions for quite some time.

But that doesn't mean that he hasn't been a Sociopath with delusions of Grandeur and a deeply flawed vision of his "Russki-Mir" for a very long time.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755845#Comment_118755845

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756063#Comment_118756063

Interesting points above. IMHO as always

Jets from Poland

I doubt that the planes being offered was a gamble to try and deter the Russians. If it had been it would have been far more organized, with a timetable offered. Along with possibly more hardware. I posted about this earlier today and the time line involved

• EU offer of Jet fighters
• EU withdraw offer
• US discusses offer and Green Lights a deal with Poland
• Poland OFFICIALLY announces that Fighters will be handed over.
• US 'Surprised' by this - offer rescinded

Not mere speculation to suggest, we are 'missing a few moves' in the above timeline.

Could be 'internal' (US Reps/state dept, 'back out' of deal. Tucker Carlson went on Fox last night and seemingly bashed the idea as US entering defacto war with Nuclear Russia - may have swung some republican base, and therefore Republican Reps)

Could be External (Clear unambiguous back channel that Russia will attack jets BEFORE their entry into theater of war - will lead to escalation - Russia will 100% View as NATO involvement)

A combination of both is possible

ON BELARUS - Question as i understand it relates to the stability of the Regime.

I would suggest that it is NO WHERE NEAR as stable as Russia.

• Russian people have been primed for this invasion for quite a while - aside from squashed protest in Russia, Russian population seem to be behind their leader - we have NO such evidence with regard to Lukashenko and Belarus - and he (in my view) clearly screwed up with his revelation of Military plans/maps last week
• Putin has fostered a cult of Personality in Russia (Large amounts of people backing him, believing in his vision, etc) - Lukashenko only remains in power thanks to Putin/Russia - massive protests after last election

I would not be stunned if a move were made against Lukashenko. THAT SAID: Russia may well have considered this possibility. Germany had planned for, and immediately acted when Italy began to falter in its support for the AXIS - see Operation AXIS 1943 - would not surprise me at all if the Kremlin had a plan to seize full control of Belarus if the regime was 'on the verge' of collapse. Their absence (in meaningful ways) from this war so far, does not reflect Kremlin 'faith in Minsk'

@Danzy on NATO

• Nothing of the war thus far would suggest that Russian forces could withstand even a modest NATO attack. I would expect NATO to succeed in any such situation, within the Ukraine
• Therein lies the problem: Putin/Russias hand forced. They are being hit by an enemy they cannot conventionally beat - rational to begin preparations for the use of (AT MINIMUM) Battlefield 'Tactical' Nuclear weapons
• Such involvement would facilitate Putin to remind them of 1941 ('Surprise German Offensive attack against the Soviet Union) - i cannot emphasize enough that although Putin undoubtedly knows NATO would only be intervening in Ukraine. His population are primed to view the Ukrainian state as NAZIS - propaganda would argue that NATO are 'attacking the Russian Motherland in alliance with NAZIS' -
• Very dangerous situation

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756895#Comment_118756895

Not unexpected - just posted my thoughts on Belarus - definitely denotes instability in Minsk - Lukashenko cannot bank on military backing

Irish_wolf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118757070#Comment_118757070

"The upsetting images from the war that you seem concerned about weren't faked were they? How were they propaganda? People reacted to the reality of what Russia was inflicting."

They were very likely to be genuine, hence why they are so upsetting. Propaganda doesn't need to be fake, in fact it's even more powerful when it's real and in your face, and Russia are giving the Ukrainians plenty of ammo every day in this regard. I'm just suggesting that people avoid getting caught up in the whirlwind and to avoid getting fixated on the atrocities being committed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118757122#Comment_118757122

Doesn't mean he is crazy or insane.

A sociopath is not automatically insane.

tooka

It’s easy for people sitting in Ireland dream up these grand plans of how to defeat Russia by giving Ukraine planes

the reality is of Ukraine start winning this war due to intervention of Poland, Russia will bomb Poland.

sure why don’t Poland give us their planes and we can gift them to Ukraine ?

What could go wrong

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118757070#Comment_118757070

I'd tend to agree.

While the Ukrainian numbers on Russian casualties and equipment losses are clearly over-stated and the Russian view is clearly vastly understated , the numbers being reported by NATO Intelligence and others are closer to the Ukraine figures than the Russians.

For example , the Ukrainians claim to have killed 10,000 Russian troops whereas the Russians have only admitted to ~500 deaths.

NATO (UK and US Intelligence) puts the Russian losses at somewhere around 4,000

Detritus70

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756958#Comment_118756958

Why? I'm not in the armed forces. Do I have to roll up my sleeves, grab a garden hose and start putting out the fire when my neighbour's house is burning rather than call the fire department? Should I run into a bank and tackle several armed robbers?

This comment is childish. Maybe people who make such comments should shut up.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756958#Comment_118756958

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118757180#Comment_118757180

##Mod Note##

Up the posting standards please