Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761754#Comment_118761754

All that Russian money pumped into the Tory party had to pay for something.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762643#Comment_118762643

I'm sure any minute now someone will be along to ask for proof that they are not bombing themselves.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762570#Comment_118762570

That may be true of some but for her specifically, not at all - She is a professional spy , have a read of the link in my earlier post around her activities with the NRA.

She knows exactly what she's doing and why she's doing it.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761043#Comment_118761043

I completely condemn the killing of civilians. Especially children not just in Ukraine or Donbas but anywhere by anyone. You can call that whataboutery or you can agree that the killing of children is wrong.

You or I are not in a position to call this a war crime from our positions thousands of miles to the west, in the safety of our own homes.

I hope that this incident will be fully investigated by those tasked with investigating war crimes, the International Criminal Court and that those responsible will answer for their crimes if found guilty.

As with any pursuit of justice there is an established process.

You or I declaring an incident as a war crime is meaningless regardless of our anger at the senseless loss of life. One of the victims was a young girl. I have a young girl of my own and I don’t know how I could cope with losing her. I want this war to end. I don’t want any more children or parents dying.

I believe all human life is sacred and all human life is equal and that we as humans have a special duty to protect the most vulnerable in our communities, children, the old, the disabled.

Call me Al

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762278#Comment_118762278

Oh well isn't that something.

Our old pal Maria Butina back on the scene again. This time without the Republican party/NRA alongside her.

She is of course always going to tow the party line. She knows the score though, and you can tell that by her evasiveness and deflection when answering.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762978#Comment_118762978

She got elected to the Duma when she got back home after being sentenced to 18 months in jail for her NRA activities - she served about 14 months in total.

So I think that tell you a lot as well.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762905#Comment_118762905

Yep she is a brainwasher not the brainwashed

Brussels Sprout

There may be many Russians who are truly naïve and clueless about what is really going on in Ukraine. Maria Butina is not one of them.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762905#Comment_118762905

Oh right, I hadn't heard of her before and didn't know anything about her. It's very noticeable that the western media are generally steering well clear of these Putin propagandists and not giving them a platform (would be completely pointless, as they would just come on and tell lie after lie).

Brussels Sprout

With a lot of the Kremlin media (e.g. Sputnik and RT) banned from twitter it can be difficult to see official Kremlin propaganda in English.

If you are curious what they are pumping out look no further than the official account of the Russian Embassy in the UK

In the past few days they have tweeted:

1. The victims of the Mariupol hospital bombing were actually crisis actors - It was actually empty all along and was instead used as an outpost by the Azov battalion
2. Ukrainian nationalists have been moving tons of ammonia to Kharkiv and "teaching residents how to act in a chemical attack"
3. Russian military do not target civilian infrastructure. Ukrainian radicals and Neo-Nazis are holding civilians as hostages
4. Documents have been found showing that the USA has been making bioweapons in Ukraine
5. Documents have been found showing that Ukraine was about to attack the Donbass (prior to the Russian invasion)

I'm actually a little bit concerned about #2 there as it almost seems like they're setting the stage for them to drop some very large bombs there themselves (and blame the "ammonia") and/or use a chemical agent themselves. Here was that particular tweet:

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1501642645403320330

liamtech

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1501913563073556498

https://twitter.com/mission_russian/status/1501823680434819074

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1501919224201158656

Above are official tweets from Russian Embassies in London, and Geneva - The 3rd tweet refers to footage of a lady, appearing pregnant, who appears injured, bloodied up, and trying to walk down a bomb damaged stairs. (For anyone wishing to view this, it is widely covered in the media)

Referring to the above though on a International Political level, this is the official position of the Russian Federation.

As i see it there are two possibilities:

• Consciously Lying- They Do Not Believe this: It is entirely bad faith, they are lying, consciously. If this is the case, i see no further reason, or benefit from having diplomatic relations with Russia. There is also no further reason to take into account what they (the Russian State) are saying. One could argue this has been the case for days (i would agree), but in terms of the media, the various news agencies have continued to follow press conferences, and official statements - I dont see any further need to do so.
• They actually believe this: They are behaving thusly due to a complete distortion of reality. They are in fact a 'Qanon' like state actor, which is going to point to a sunny day, and tell you No, you are mistaken - its actually cold, dull, and raining. They believe their own propaganda, and will continue to dispute verifiable facts, and always to the advantage of Russia. We could throw around the word brainwashed but IMHO, if this is the case, they have brainwashed themselves. Nothing they say, officially, or in their media, can be taken as credible - nothing what so ever. And similar to above, is there any case what so ever for maintaining diplomatic relations? Or attending and covering press briefings?

Obviously back channels can, should, and (believe me) will remain open. But i would not dignify them what so ever at this point.

imho

Brussels Sprout

jinx

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762928#Comment_118762928

Yep as predicted and expected, you refuse to acknowledge it even as a probable war crime.

Your words are fine in the abstract but ultimately meaningless. You will always find a way to way to dodge calling out Russia. First it was no war crime no one killed. Then it was child killed, but we don't know what really happened.

Until this established process is complete, your posts don't seem to have any meaning do they. If you won't even comment on war crimes except to try to excuse them away and then say we need to wait for some distant process to complete. Your posts just become exercises in throwing up a smokescreen to the benefit of Russia, downplaying their actions, presenting their preposterous propaganda and deluded rationales for the invasion as if they were something you agree with.

You accept that Russia are clearly in the wrong in their invasion of Ukraine. Yes?

They have turned cities into battlefronts. The blood of those who died in yesterday's attack is on Russia's hands. They are culpable for the dead and wounded. Yes?

You accept that Russia has a war crimes case to answer both for the war itself and specific actions in that war? And that such a case may be difficult or impossible to conduct if Russia holds the territory on which it occurred and refuses to acknowledge the ICC authority? Yet you would still reject the consensus opinion of neutral observers?

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763406#Comment_118763406

You even have Hannity getting in on the "Bio-Weapons" story and having to be corrected live by an actual Journalist working for Fox News.

Remember , this whole line of propaganda was first aired on InfoWars in the US which has enabled Russia (and China) to row in behind and further amplify the lies.

ambro25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763406#Comment_118763406

There is a halfway-house, which is that they are lying on orders.

But, and of course, ”I was only following orders” ceased to be an acceptable defence in 1945 in Nuremberg, and it does not change your point (with which I agree) that they should be completely and thoroughly deplatformed.

Beside the geopolitical urgency of enforcing absolute autarky on Russia, it would help put an end to the proxy whattaboutery that still manages to survive online after the last 2 weeks.

Tell you one thing: I don’t envy Pavel and Irina Averageovich on their travels in the coming years, they’ll be about as popular and welcome as a dose of the clap wherever they go.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763593#Comment_118763593

I saw that yea. And various videos flying around online RE Tucker Carlson. I dont think its scaremongering, or exaggeration to say this is a deliberate attempt to create a meaningful discord within Western Societies, and therefore, their Governments. The last 10 odd years have demonstrated the power of 'Post Truth' - i dont want to Segway away from the topic. But what have we seen, in Ireland and abroad recently?

• Anti Vax groups and thinking - growing at an alarming rate
• Qanon in the states (with adjacent groups in Europe and elsewhere)
• Brexit
• Trump

Just to be clear i am not bringing the above into the argument. Just asking you to imagine:

• Protests in the west claiming Ukraine/Russian conflict is a 'Civil War'
• Large scale demonstrations - Arguing that the west is 'Aiding NAZIS' - and demanding that this stop
• Groups demanding that relations with Russia be normalized, and that 'Russia is defending itself'

Clearly, they can, and will, (and already have) influenced people. And these fictional accounts of 'Neo Nazi Ukrainians', and 'Bio Labs', and 'use of Human shields' are being thrown out - to aid those who are sufficiently primed. Who can then act to convert more, and distort our impression of this war. Once there is a solid base - said base will be sufficient in size to effect policy. Anyone who doubts this, please remember, there are 2 Qanon Members of Congress

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763633#Comment_118763633

I have no doubt that some average Russians realize the truth. And perhaps some are being forced to act, and propagate nonsense. Absolutely.

But IMHO the state itself is now, either lying consciously- or they believe their own lies - by state i mean, foreign ministry, government, embassies, and proxies/agents-of the above.

In terms of Russian people, i feel sympathy for them. The ones who know the truth, are going to be vilified; for the actions of those who have been brainwashed - and this is entirely wrong - but highly likely. I wont vilify every day Russians, but if they chose to speak nonsense to my face on this issue, i will not accept it. And will argue back - thats all i can do

Retr0gamer

The bioweapon thing is disturbing as it could well be a false flag to deflect away from chemical weapon use in the Ukraine.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763777#Comment_118763777

By the looks of things Russia Will drop chemical weapons in Ukraine and likely turn around and say the chemicals leaked from an American lab in Ukraine ,and people will lap it up and blame America and NATO while claiming to be appalled by the Americans hiding chemical weapons

Retr0gamer

Did they drop Chemical weapons in Syria?

BurgerFace

Is RT down in Ireland? I notice a lot of people in the US, Netherlands, Italy, Slovenia etc stating that it is down in those locations.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763827#Comment_118763827

Chemical weapons were used by blamed on Assad ,and then there was tons of propaganda to Claim anyone but the Assad/Russian were using chemical weapons

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763949#Comment_118763949

Yes,I believe it is.

Hacker terrorists 'Anonymous' turned their ire on various Russian media online platforms and took some of them offline entirely.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763988#Comment_118763988

Starting to like those guys

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763992#Comment_118763992

I mentioned on the Russia Today Thread, that they are in the process (seemingly) of winding the network up. Its been taken off the air in multiple countries. And it was removed from several Satellites so

If you think about it, it makes sense. It only really served one purpose, and that purpose is now defunct.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763495#Comment_118763495

Jump to whatever conclusions you want. You as an individual labelling things as war crimes is what is meaningless. You can label someone a murderer by what you see on an online video. But until they face a trial where the facts are established your belief, however strongly held is meaningless.

corkie

CNN 'Structured ambush': Video appears to show strike on Russian tanks

Ukrainian officials claim the military have defeated a Russian tank regiment outside the capital Kyiv and videos appear to show a number of tanks on fire or destroyed. Retired Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton says that the video seems to show a tank commander that was taken by surprise and is an example of an "unexpectedly incompetent" Russian operation.

Has the traffic jam of tanks/vehicles outside of Kyiv started moving in?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118764009#Comment_118764009

Just thinking the invasion has been a catastrophe for the Russia propaganda machine. Whenever anyone outside the country hears the words 'Russia' or 'Putin' now, they think of them being liars and charlatans. The regime can never recover from this.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118764287#Comment_118764287

I'm not sure but there seems to be more videos of captured and destroyed Russian hardware today than is typical - so something's definitely coming into contact with the Ukrainians.

There's a Turkish guy on twitter who tracks equipment losses (Tanks, Planes, Ships, Artillery, Armoured cars etc) in wars and by his count the Russians have now passed beyond the 1000 figure for losses in this invasion. Today is the 15th day so that's averaging over 65 per day. I know they have a huge army and massive resources but those are phenomenal losses - and that's before you even mention all of the dead and wounded soldiers.

https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1501967506285727746

Subzero3

Don't know why Russia don't use drone's. They surely have loads. 2 or 3 at work before the ground troops move in. If they can't do that they need to flatten the place.