Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Gatling

It's been reported a care center for disabled adults was hammered earlier in Russian strikes ,no reports deaths but patients were in the facility 300 + people all electricity , water and heating have wiped out .....

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770874#Comment_118770874

Military flights or moving troops through Shannon airport?

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770968#Comment_118770968

News is only a small part of what RTE does. If it was on the radio, I’d expect it not to be news, and more opinion unless it was the hourly news etc.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770851#Comment_118770851

I dont see the article link. However i have seen numerous headlines RE a 'Turning Point'

I infer from the phrase 'turning point' - they mean it strategically. I will use a historical analogy from ww2, if i may

1944

Montgomary: Favored a tactical approach to ending NAZI Germany. He proposed a surgical spearhead to pierce into Nazi Germany, head to Berlin, capture the capital. He proposed this but was turned down by Eisenhower. Instead, Ike did authorize Operation Market Garden. Idea being that using paratroops and a fast moving armor, the allies could breach the front line in Holland, capture the bridges over the Rhein, and within a short period of time occupy the Ruhr. And end the war. It would have saved time, and not incidentally lives and equipment. And more important to this analogy, the physical infrastructure of Germany would have endured less destruction

Utter failure, the phrase 'A Bridge too Far' coined, and the end to this tactic.

Patton: Favored a more general approach to advance, on a wide front. Destroy German positions with a combination of Air Supremacy, and massed artillery, coupled with advantages in number of both Men and tanks. No targets spared, no German positions left encircled -

This is what happened in the end.

The reason i bring it up. The Russians tried Monty first in this war. Clearly reckoned they could take this country in days, maybe a week. Capturing the airfields outside Kyiv to allow deployment of massed infantry. Take over the running of the country

- the benefit would have been; avoids having to utterly destroy the Ukraine, its infrastructure, its cities, its factories, its people.

This seems to have failed. So the 'turning point' may refer to Russia going down the road of Patton. In a nut shell, this is gonna get nasty, ugly and brutish. But not necessarily short. Think of what we have seen in the past few days

• Many reports of whole residential areas in Kharkiv. Similarly around the outer suburban areas near Kyiv
• Cities being pounded in the south. Were the objective to simply take out the government this would be unnecessary
• Hospitals and factories being hit now, The pretense of this not being an all out war (if anyone believed this) slips
• hints at even worse weapons (strategic bombing, chemical weapons, etc)

Anyway, thats what i read into the term. I think there was some with military experience on here earlier - i have no such experience, beyond reading. I welcome a 'slap' from someone with more experience/expertise - and i welcome it cause i am actively hoping im wrong RE the term, and the war

(anyone want citations see Cornelius Ryan 'a Bridge too Far')

Headshot

Do we ever see a point in this war when enough is enough and NATO setup a no fly zone?

If we see a chemical attack?

If we see Nuclear Plants getting attacked and potential another Chernobyl?

Have we also heard anymore on the Polish Jets getting to Ukraine? Quite frustrating this seems to have stalled as you would think it'd be a big help to Ukraine.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771105#Comment_118771105

Yes, the main news bulletin, the news at one.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771125#Comment_118771125

Iv been following the JET FIASCO since Day one, Its unbelievable. Not speculation to suggest that Putin is 'deterring' this. at least for now. I would expect it to come up again., especially if there is an escalation in the war.

As to NATO - they have a clear and unambiguous red line; Their border. Sadly I dont see that changing

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771125#Comment_118771125

The migs aren't happening they are afraid putin will attack a Nato country in all likely Poland ,who they recently installed Patriot missles systems to protect against Russian aircraft ,

At this stage we need putin to have a go at a Nato country , that's the only redline ,it's already a given they will attempt a chemical weapons attacks , especially what the Russians were spewing out and the UN earlier

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771168#Comment_118771168

Yes that seems to be the case according to Biden

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1502353759455821833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502353759455821833%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.1news.co.nz%2F2022%2F03%2F11%2Flive-biden-says-us-fighting-russia-will-result-in-ww3%2F

Look I can understand why you don't want to confront Russia in Ukraine but ffs why do you lay all your cards out on the table. Russia know they can now do anything they want in Ukraine without repercussions at least military

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771193#Comment_118771193

Ukraine .

ODriscoll

Regardless of what people want to selectively believe or ignore

The United Nations Refugee agency in 2014

state!

Civilians in eastern Ukraine killed by rockets

Jul 26, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTY4s8sMMPM

2014

The United Nation's refugee agency says fighting in eastern Ukraine has forced nearly a quarter of a million people from their homes so far this year.

As the number of civilian deaths continues to rise, human rights activists are calling on both sides to stop using rockets in populated areas.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771182#Comment_118771182

Have the Russians the capability to track military aircraft arriving everywhere in Ukraine? Could some aircraft not be spirited into the country and put into service by the Ukrainian airforce unknownst to Russia?

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771200#Comment_118771200

I wont criticize NATO or the strategy. Merely i think some ambiguity could have been left. Telling Russia in plain terms, what you will defend, and what you wont. Bad idea

Better to use ambiguous terms

Watching the situation closely

Further escalations in civilian casualties will be seen as provocative and an escalation

Targeting of civilians will result in grave consequences

Biden did do something similar to this today in response to a single question on chemical weapons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yztaWh0sYfg

Read what you will into this - not overly impressed by Biden thus far - although obviously better than the alternative that was available

(a large pile of spent uranium in a suit, would have been more useful than Biden's predecessor imho)

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771279#Comment_118771279

Exactly some ambiguity would of been ideal here

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771200#Comment_118771200

He’s setting up The Ukraine as a sacrificial lamb…. Drawing a line at their border… in other words… go any further and you are going to get it…

problem is… Russia take the Ukraine, Europe could be in peril, your friends who have helped YOUR country in conflict after conflict…

Biden is really a joke of a president… a soft headed mumbling, stumbling ughhhh..not got the brains or the stones..

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771250#Comment_118771250

Saw some USAF expert on CNN talking about the 2 division of s-400 AA all along the Belarusian border, they've up to 400km range so that's most of the way across the width of Ukraine almost to the Romanian border.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118765591#Comment_118765591

The dirtiest unit in the Russian army would not even take the 2 that Kyle Rittenhouse had to shoot.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771361#Comment_118771361

Il respond to you @pcardin - I said my piece a while back to the cited user. He is not behaving or conducting himself in good faith

• He posts the same thing over and over again - here and in other places
• He never actually engages in conversation.
• numerous times i pointed out obvious flaws in his argument. He reacts by entirely ignoring the response, and just keeps going. Therefore futile to engage with
• He repeatedly referred to the conflict as a 'civil war' which i found outrageous
• nothing anyone said made a dent - literally - he is just posting to cause an argument as far as i can detect

Like i stated, i said my piece a while back. I wont dignify him by responding again. i have him on ignore. I saw some of his comments in quote, and its clear - nothing has changed. I wont tell you what to do, but as @Brussels Sprout said - the IGNORE function is fantastic. consider it a MUTE

For what its worth, i hope he is a bot. it pains me to think someone could behave like this of their own free will

A lot of good arguments are spoiled by some fool who knows what he is talking about. —Miguel de Unamuno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771314#Comment_118771314

What conflicts have Ireland been in since the war of independence and following civil war. Even if you include the war in the six counties between the provisionals and the U. K. armed forces as an Irish conflict (some do some don't), what European countries provided military assistance to Ireland against the U.K. In all that time?

You could argue for the German rifles provided before the 1916 rising perhaps and even then that's an example of practically nothing.

As for Biden, well rather than withhold assistance because they won't manufacture fake stories about his opposition, under his presidency the U.S. has so far provided the Ukraine with military intelligence, arms and money, as have a number of NATO and non NATO countries, which is about all they can do given Ukraine isn't a member of NATO which even at this point even most five year olds must be aware of and understand. NATO and non NATO countries, have also agreed to take in refugees from Ukraine without complaining about the fact that they are doing so, unlike some posters on here.

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771433#Comment_118771433

yeah, but what does he/she wants? Russian rubles, to buy vodka in order to sink his/her guilt and shame for being a rat?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771353#Comment_118771353

They have multiple S-400 batteries in Belarus and Crimea. That's enough to basically control the skies of Western Ukraine. We don't know if they have moved any S-400s to within Donbas, but even from over the Russian border they should be able to control most of Eastern Ukraine.

Ukraine has had success with small drones but anything with a decent radar signature is a sitting duck for the Russians. It's believed they have run out of drones also because one of their drones crashed in Croatia the other day and it was some 70s relic you wouldn't use unless you had nothing else. One of those drones that shoots film and you have to develop it when it comes back.

Nordner

100,000 Ukrainians possibly coming here over the next while. They will get PPS numbers, Child Benefit, Social Welfare and accommodation....meanwhile, Syrians, Afghans, Iraqis and Africans etc were stuck in direct provision for years....is that not just a tad racist?

It is awful what is going on out there, however, Nato and The West have to take some of the blame for 'poking the bear' and encouraging Ukraine to seek EU and NATO membership.

This was always going to be a Red Line issue for Putin, as he said many times previously. Does not mean he is right, by any means...maybe this could even lead to his downfall in the long run, who knows? Perhaps this was NATOs plan all along? To goad him into attacking Ukraine and then getting himself bogged down in a prolonged occupation and insurgency while sanctions and mounting Russian casualties bleed his coffers and his approval ratings dry...Very cynical if that is the case, when you consider how much the ordinary Ukrainians are suffering right now...

The Bio Labs are a worrying development. Their existence admitted in a Senate Committee hearing the other day by Bidens Under Secretary of State, and special advisor on Ukraine, Niland, under questioning from Marco Rubio....strangely this was not reported on RTE...instead they played a clip of a Washington hack spouting some crap about how his Irish Catholic Grandfather would have called the notion of any Biolabs in Ukraine complete 'Malarky'.

I wonder how many government officials across the US and EU have been busy buying up oil and gas futures these last few months btw. Quite sure those fuckers could see this coming a long time ago...one thing is for sure, some of these pricks are making a fortune from this crisis...

Abramovich being sanctioned at last for his links to Putin...took 100s of innocent Ukrainians to die before BoJo and Co finally acted though...Wonder when they will sanction the Saudi owners of Newcastle United for the US backed genocide their country is carrying out in Yemen? Would not hold my breath. The hypocrisy is disgusting....

We seem to be lurching from one crisis to the next this century...from 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, 07/07, Madrid bombings and the wave of islamist terror attacks across Europe and US, to the 2008 financial crash, bailout for the banks, austerity for the rest of us, Arab Spring, Syria, Libya, 2014 Ukrainian uprising, annexation of Crimea, Donbas war, Brexit, Trump, Kashoggi, George Floyd, BLM, then Covid, January 6th Capitol riots and now we are on the cusp of WW3 and in the middle of an energy, food and climate change crisis...Total **** show from the get go!...surely be to **** we can do better than this?

Anyways...at least we have Paddys day and the extra bank holiday to look forward to....even if it is going to piss rain for the next week!😂😂😂

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770841#Comment_118770841

"We like them, we believe them."

That is very different from not a big deal in Ireland. Many world events are not a big deal in Ireland. That doesn't mean the Irish think it is a great idea and believe everything they are told about an event.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770968#Comment_118770968

Have there been many untrained non Ukrainian volunteers to go actually fighting? Seems like they would hurt the Ukrainians more than help them really. Seen plenty of Ukrainians and military people go. Both of which either have the training or at least the language to go and be of assistance.

However there is a pretty big difference between invaders and defenders. Generally defending people from attack is seen as braver than attacking people.

liamtech

https://www.axios.com/russia-ukraine-iron-curtain-4e03e4dd-cdaf-4029-97a7-e15a8cd2f4d1.html

I actually thought about opening a separate thread. I would not be surprised if someone wishes to do so. The above article is actually terrifying, and accurate. Although some people are hesitant to say it, many have now acknowledged that it has happened.

• "It's over," says Alexander Baunov, a senior fellow at Carnegie Moscow. "All the vestiges of liberalism will be purged."
• "We're not yet in 1937," says historian Sergey Radchenko, referring to Josef Stalin's Great Terror. That 1937 is now the measuring stick is itself frightening, he says, because things could still reach that point, "and even if we're not in 1937, it's pretty damn awful."
• "The rules were clear and they are not anymore," Baunov says. "We can’t say what is dangerous and what is not. You don’t know what sort of repression you can meet for the things that were tolerated before."
• Educated Russians knew they were living in an autocracy, he says. Many had made peace with that. But they never expected to once again live in the type of country where “portraits of the Great Leader" hang on the walls.
• People who work in journalism, the arts or for global firms are watching their career prospects evaporate. Russians have fled the country by the tens of thousands. "At the moment, borders remain open and those who are who really cannot stand this regime anymore still have options," Radchenko says, "but those options are diminishing every day."
• Educated Russians have long discussed the conditions under which they might emigrate, says Baunov. For many, border closures, social media shutdowns and “the deglobalization of Russia” were their red lines, he says. Others simply feel that they can't live as normal in a country that is attacking its neighbor.

In effect we are witnessing history. A moment in it, that will become a focal point. Before, and after; Pre and Post 2022. A New Iron Curtain, and i will add (because many are thinking it) the Second Cold War 2022-?

Love to know what others think.

Larbre34

I think Putin won't survive in power long enough to erect a shower curtain, never mind an iron curtain.

Several things are happening now. Thousands of Russian troops, mostly young conscripts, are dead. You can't hide that. City Centres and commercial districts are shuttered, western brands are gone. You can't hide that. The Ruble is worthless, foreign currency transactions are banned, exports are halted and employment for many, evaporated. You can't hide that.

Soon, perhaps even as I write, even the most ardent Putin fan, State Television watching Soviet nostalgic, will be asking themselves, why is their such a disproportionate response to our special military operation? Where are our young men? If we are so strong and righteous, how are we in such a condition?

Whatever about a State apparatus like North Korea, where people don't even know what they don't even know, it is absolutely impossible to take 145 million Russians and ask them to just accept a five decade regression in their lives. To accept the loss of travel and luxury consumer goods and fine foods and big German cars and university education and well paid jobs with global corporates. To subdue a discontented population that size, you'd need another hundred million agents of the State.

Campaigns like the one being run out of Lithuania, to literally telephone Russian households and speak to them about whats really happening, will eventually bear fruit. Even aside from ordinary people, the Oligarchs have become used to a certain lifestyle that is being snatched away from them and they are more than well enough clued in to know thats all down to Putin.

He has many enemies now within his Country, hundreds of thousands of new ones every day that this fools errand continues. And even if it stopped tomorrow, Russia has lost its trading status maybe for decades, or at least until a wholesale replacement of the regime takes place.

Iron curtain? More like one of gossamer. A transparent illusion.

goldenmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771710#Comment_118771710

@Larbre34 - Campaigns like the one being run out of Lithuania, to literally telephone Russian households and speak to them about whats really happening, will eventually bear fruit.

There are wheels in motion on many fronts to penetrate the state imposed ignorance of ordinary Russian folk. In no time at all millions more will be aware of Putin's warmongering and blatant lies, and an insurgency seems inevitable.

But until/if that happens, it's still the fear of the nightmare scenario he could impose on the world that keeps you awake at night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-60697261

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771672#Comment_118771672

Yes, this is a turning point in history. I've been always calling Russia a fascist regime but what is happening now is an actual fascism. It was de facto fascism from say 2008 and deepening day by day but now, along with series of military interventions, international sanctions it's a full blown fascism descending into a European North Korea Lite.

Not that Russian regimes were ever liberal or democratic in any sense. Apart from a short period of quasi-democracy under Jeltsin, Russia was never really a free coutry and always a despotic regime since the early statehood of the Muscovy.

The "Russian polity/nation" was created when Muscovy came to the fore and ascended to the leading role taking over the role from the Kievian Rus (the original Rus) by conquering (some of) it in 1200s by allying with the brutal Mongols. Muscovy was essentially a thuggish state of mafia working as tax and tribute collection for the Mongols. This is the first root cause of Russian culturally ingrained despotism. When "Russian empire" was created by extreme expansionist policies between 1600s and 1700s by conquering North Eurasia, culminating by officially naming the empire "Russian", thus stealing this ethnonym from the original Kievian Rus, the empire was found on serfdom, absolutism and mythical ideology of Russian historical uniqueness and greatness (aided by the Russian Orthodox Church). This is the second cause of Russian culturally ingrained despotism. Since then the Russian elites have not really changed and continued in Russian exceptionalist and historical uniqueness mindset. What is worse that all the regimes - Tzarism, Leninism, Stalinism, Putinism all all building upon themselves and are ideologically evolution/iteration of each other.

The historical revisionism and chauvinism prevalent in Russia goes like this - Tzarism was good but Communism was better. Communism was good but Putinism is better. Each iteration of the Russian regime is better at demonstrating the Russian greatness and uniqueness. Vast majority of Russian people (who are reduced to serfs really) believe this, genetically and culturally ingrained in them over centuries of despotic elites.

70% Russians in Russia support Putin and his support has increased over last 1 month. Russian emigrants are much more split but even among them there's a large % of Putin supporters, supporters of Russian chauvinism.

Most West and South European folks do not understand the above or are naive about Russia and Russian system of government and thinking. Those of us from CEE who had historical experience with the "boot of the Russian soldier" have no doubts...

To your question 😊 Yes, we're witnessing a start of a Cold War 2.0 and a geopolitical realignment which will involve China and maybe Turkey. China is in a win-win scenario here. Technically Russia is a Chinese quasi-puppet already. If Russian economy collapses (which it likely will) then China can buy Russia cheap and make it into its resource (and labour?) hub, it would be almost fully controlled economically speaking. Chinese won't occupy it, just control it economically, will integrate Russia to "North EuraAsian Union", which is what deluded Russian elites always wanted but probably not in this way!

Russia is no world power as its obvious to everyone. Russia is gone, China is ascending. Hope the EU can hold on.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770121#Comment_118770121

I'd compare it more to the bottom of the Premier League team dropping to the Second League 😎

We've been talking with our compatriots what is the likely root cause of the Russian "military tactics".

Either Putin is saving gear and money or doesn't have the gear that's officially on paper! Because it's all broken, obsolete or stolen.

🇺🇦Ukraine’s military: Russia has fired 154 Iskander missiles, 97 Kalibrs, 21 Tochka Us, 56 X-type missiles, against Ukrainian cities.

They should have thousands of Iskander and other higher grade ballistic missiles.

I wouldn't be surprised if Russian nuclear stock is in a similar condition, most broken or stolen.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118772015#Comment_118772015

Russia is no world power as its obvious to everyone. Russia is gone, China is ascending. Hope the EU can hold on.

The EU can thrive if it finally dispenses with the archaic idea it can have its toe half in the federal waters, appeasing those clinging to romantic ideals of sovereignty. The small to medium nation state has had its day - the UK is discovering this ATM to its cost - and IMO a USE must happen for Europe as a social, economic and political force to remain relevant and powerful. Otherwise we'll be trampled over by China, India or whoever becomes the next great physical presence. Indeed this crisis is showing that a unity of purpose is more important than ever - doubly so with the first of what may be more pandemics to come. The EU can't just wing it anymore, hope the constituent states align eventually.

As to Russia, it's a dead entity and doesn't know it yet. Even it's population is declining, while its economy withers, and the danger here is like a dying wasp is more dangerous than the harmless dottiness of the UK's own tailspin into global destitution. Russia has nuclear weapons and a resting belligerence that could be lethal if Putin's successor decides to embrace a properly nationalist strategy. My worry throughout has been the nagging suspicion the next guy is going to make Putin look rational and sober.

Can a country be removed from the UN security council BTW? Seems like there should be an escape hatch for its permanent members but presumably the clue is in the name here.