Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

PCeeeee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775015#Comment_118775015

Moderation working well so

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775015#Comment_118775015

I dont recall the incident you describing happening In Ukraine .... That poster brought Ukraine using Grad systems on civillians in 2014 ... I brought up the shooting down of acivilian airliner in 2014 in that same region. Not so much to do with a Mod note but rather your inability to use context when making a point

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775151#Comment_118775151

You brought up the logic of if one side shoots down a civilian airliner it gives carte blanche for the other side to shoot down airliners. But I am not going to be drawn into a discussion about the US shooting down civilian airliners.

Gatling

Russia shooting down airliners Is not uncommon unfortunately 7 to their name over the years ,in the context of flight MH17 over ukraine,.

But we did that to death and nothing to do with the current situation in Ukraine

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775305#Comment_118775305

One can only hope that the proliferation of US supplied anti aircraft missiles in Ukraine won’t make European skies as dangerous for civilian and commercial aircraft as the supply of stinger missiles did in Afghanistan, at one time the most dangerous skies in the world.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/sns-worldtrade-missiles-lat-story.html?outputType=amp

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775471#Comment_118775471

It won't ,

Russia is the biggest threat to aircraft in and around ukraine and the Baltics , civilian or otherwise the same goes of commercial shipping ,how many commercial shipping vessels did they attack in the last three weeks ,

No cause for concern from some

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118774859#Comment_118774859

You are saying the drone crash - reported as Ukrainian by Western media - may be a Russian "false flag". Nobody in the West is even saying such a thing, it is apparently your own concoction out of the blue. You read my post and immediately concocted a conspiracy theory about false flags.

This is Alex Jones tin-foil hat nonsense, the conspiracy theory forum is this way

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775503#Comment_118775503

Do you not countenance the possibility that of the billions of dollars worth of weapons pouring into Ukraine at least some of them will fall into the wrong hands. Especially if the conflict is prolonged.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775553#Comment_118775553

Still the biggest threat to civilian airliners or commercial shipping comes directly from the Russian military and nobody else , doesn't matter how many javelin missiles flow into ukraine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118772564#Comment_118772564

Politics mods are normally on the ball life outside the site takes priority and rightly so given it is an unpaid position.

Edit see Quin Dub has caught up with the thread

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775540#Comment_118775540

Claimed in the media , there still hasn't been any clarification as to who owned and flew this drone through several nato /eu states ,

the joys of propaganda like when someone claims there opinion is fact and try to shoot down any other opinion ,

I see Russian media is saying it came from Ukraine so the opposite to that claim must be the Truth.

The War Zone’s Tyler Rogoway, after close examination of the visual evidence, strongly believes this drone was actually a Tu-141 “Strizh” reconnaissance drone that must have severely malfunctioned. Nobody knows if it was launched by Ukraine or Russia at this time, but some accounts state it had Russian red stars on it. Even more confusion is added to the mix by sources from the Ukrainian military which said the drone did not belong to them.

, it is not possible to verify who is really operating the drones, as some sources mentioned the presence of the “Z” symbol which was seen on many vehicles since the beginning of the invasion.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775553#Comment_118775553

Strange you are so concerned about weapons misplaced. Where was your concern about the weapons Russia sent to the separatists? Or mercenaries? Or just abandoned?

Where is your post showing concern for civilian ships hit by Russia?

But this is what concerns you? Never concerned about Russia. Always concerned about the West and Ukraine.

You aint fooling anyone with this charade.

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118773637#Comment_118773637

I saw it referred to as a "Soviet-era drone believed to have come from Ukraine".

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775629#Comment_118775629

With red stars and Z symbols on it

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775540#Comment_118775540

Its not a conspiracy theory to suggest Russia engages in false flags. The only tin foil hat territory is to suggest they do not... maybe it is Ukranian but its hardĺy CT to consider otherwise.

Varik

Quick google says the drone had a range of 1000km and if it landed in Zagreb in Croatia, then it's either getting launched from the western and still Ukrainian controlled part or just on the Moldovan border either the Moldovan side in the Russian part or across the border again in a part the Russia don't control fully.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775595#Comment_118775595

All of the Western aviation outlets are reporting it as likely Ukrainian.

There is a simple explanation - it's a very old piece of equipment, it went the wrong way and they couldn't bring it back. End of story.

Instead of accepting the simplest (and most likely) explanation you have gone into tin-foil hat mode. I get it, you have been hearing about false flags and your imagination has gone into overdrive. You are ranting about false flag attacks and how every other poster on this site is "Russian propaganda".

Take a step back and get some fresh air. Not everything is conspiracies. To what end? What could be the purpose of the "false flag attack" you have conjured up? The Ruskies send a 1970s drone off to crash and trick people into Ukraine has crap old drones... great, now what? What does that achieve militarily?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775603#Comment_118775603

Ever vigilant ody. Even on a Saturday night.

It goes without saying that I condemn attacks on civilians. Is your lack of condemnation of Ukrainian attacks on civilians in Donbas an endorsement? Of course not.

I am pointing out we have been at exactly this point before. The US funnelling billions into a proxy war against Russia and it didn’t end well for anyone.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775712#Comment_118775712

Strange. You still havent shown any concern for Russia abandoning vehicles. Or arming mercenaries. Again. Reasonable to conclude that was a smokescreen and not a genuine concern or else you would be concerned about the fate of those weapons.

I amnt the one pretending to be claiming to be neutrally 'just asking questions' when obviously being pro Russian and never missing an opportunity to deny excuse deflect false equivalent or whataboutery their disgraceful conduct in the war.

You 'condemn' civilian deaths in the abstract. Without assigning culpability it is meaningless hand wringing.

I am still waiting on your condemnation of civilian deaths for which Russia is culpable. As in mention Russia in the condemnation.

They launched a war of aggression in Ukraine. Theirs is the ultimate culpability.

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775669#Comment_118775669

I think it was meant as from Ukraine the region, rather than Ukraine the nation. It was Reuters, they tend to be pretty good. BBC speculated that it was from the "Ukrainian War".

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775699#Comment_118775699

As i posted in the original Post.

There isn't anything to prove it was Ukrainian , with red stars and Z markings it's not as simple as your claiming it to be ,and it's not a conspiracy theory ,

You can save that for a start

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775749#Comment_118775749

I can just see it now.

Grandkid: Grandad what did you do in the war?

Ody: I made a poster on Boards.ie individually condemn atrocities they had already collectively condemned.

Grandkid: Wow

I unequivocally condemn any civilian deaths be that Jonathan Ball and Tim Parry in Warrington, Paul Maxwell and Nicholas Knatchbull in Mullaghmore or children in Iraq, Afghanistan or Ukraine I condemn them all. There is nothing “abstract” about it.

Any Abandoned Russian vehicles don’t look like they would pose much of a threat to airliners compared to the billions in high tech mobile, shoulder mounted systems that are flooding the country.

I am concerned about Russia arming mercenaries. I presume you are not concerned about the proliferation of arms as long as they are pointing in the “right” direction. For the moment.

Gatling

@SafeSurfer Any Abandoned Russian vehicles don’t look like they would pose much of a threat to airliners compared to the billions in high tech mobile, shoulder mounted systems that are flooding the country.

SAMs , artillery, Rockets, anti aircraft guns don't pose a threat,

Is it because they are not American weapons ?

Manpads only have limited range ,not in the same category as a SAM such as the Buk missle used to shoot down flight MH17 over ukraine.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775931#Comment_118775931

And you know none of the abandoned russian weapons are a threat? How exactly? They have no shoulder launched SAMs?

Russian proxies have already shot down one airliner over Ukraine and were shielded by Russia.

Why do you expect Ukraine to be less responsible than Russia and its proxies with its weapons? No reason just its the particular piece of Russian propaganda you are pushing today.

Once again you apply one standard of information that is pro Russian than one that fits your pattern of anti Ukraine ones.

You see condemning civilian deaths in the abstract is meaningless hand wringing and crocodile tears. For all we know as far as you are concerned those deaths are the respinsibility of Ukraine, NATO whatever - anyone but Russia.

Like some of the lies posted earlier in the thread that Ukraine was responsible for every single casualty in Donbas in 2014 - 2021. Not one person was killed by Russian proxies according to this lie. For all we know you believe that lie. Do you?

So as expected you refuse to condemn the deaths of civilians by Russia for which they are culpable. You cant bring yourself to mention Russia and condemning civilian deaths in the same sentence.

Yep just another attempt at deflection anyone can see through. With added whataboutery. This is the Ukraine thread and your pro Russian playbook is empty without it.

The charade is up.

Quin_Dub

##Mod Note##

Despite the very clear warning in the earlier Mod Note, some posters are not doing as requested.

@Gatling and @SafeSurfer - Take the rest of the weekend off.

Don't post in the thread again until Monday.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775947#Comment_118775947

You have spend most of the thread denigrating Russian military, equipment, how it was barely servicable and now suddenly when it suits you argue that it’s deadly.

Use your head Gatling. Why were the skies over Afghanistan deadly for civilian aircraft? Because highly mobile easily concealed stinger missiles were readily available.

I suspect you already know this and are being disingenuous.

https://rusi.org/publication/threat-manpads

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118776117#Comment_118776117

A quick google search shows that almost all air crashes in Afghanistan were military: a few civilian crashes on takeoff and landing (not shot down).. Very little evidence that Manpads were a lethal factor for civilian operations. Now a Russian BUK is another thing altogether: these things don't fall off the back of a lorry into the hands of some terrorists.

fryup

is it a given that American military elite in the guise of NATO are training & arming Ukraine insurgents ??😶

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118776310#Comment_118776310

There would be huge amounts of assistance going on, but we are hearing nothing about it (for obvious reasons). They wouldn't be 'insurgents' btw, as Ukraine hasn't actually been occupied - defenders would be a better word.

fryup

and the CIA would have a hand in it no doubt