Ukraine bans men aged between 18 and 60 from leaving the country (due to conscription)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118692560#Comment_118692560

Stinks of sexism 🤣

Conscription of men only stinks of sexism then

iptba

With conscription just of men, many of the conscripts will have dependents. So they get conscripted over women with no dependents. In some cases, the mother may no longer be around or be in some way not be suitable as a single parent due to mental and/or physical illness, injury, addiction, etc..

By only choosing men for military service, countries are effectively choosing that a lot smaller proportion of women, or none at all, will be conscripted in a time of need. People can make excuses that in a time of war, corners can be cut but it is being built into systems to make is easier not conscript women if only men have to do military service. Many women could do many useful roles with the right training (as we see in paid roles).

fits

If you can’t get enough people through volunteering then the battle is largely lost already. Not everyone is suitable to be a soldier.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118691685#Comment_118691685

Just hire Dub scumbags who enjoy attacking people.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118692891#Comment_118692891

Reeks of desperation. Lads in their 30s, 40s and FIFTIES huffing and puffing and up against fit trained battle ready Russians in their late teens and 20s.

Thelonious Monk

Quite the tangent even for boards men standards to feel hard done by

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118693132#Comment_118693132

Russian kids. They shouldn’t be there either it’s a tragedy.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118692546#Comment_118692546

I read the article in the opening post. You clearly don’t understand the response, but that’s no immediate reason to think you’re a bit simple minded. It’s the fact that you think anyone is convinced you have any interest in equality provides sufficient evidence of your mindset.

But for what it’s worth, no, I don’t have any interest in equality. I understand that in any case there was always more to war than equal numbers of men and women on all sides. Plenty of gay men who want to join the armed forces in Ukraine have to contend with the unspoken policy of “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell”, not just an American phenomenon -

https://amp.dw.com/en/lgbtq-troops-and-vets-go-to-war-with-homophobia-in-ukraine/a-58059054

Every army needs it’s jarheads, but far more necessary in war is Intelligence. Eggheads like Alan Turing and Grace Hopper are far more useful to the war effort than any amount of misguided misfits -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118692560#Comment_118692560

It depends on how monogamous you want your society to be. The experience of France after WW1 which saw a shortage of men of fighting age in WW2 is an example of the problem which resulted.

frosty123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118693120#Comment_118693120

Wouldn't last 5 min when push comes to shove 😐 run on home to their mammy's

iptba

bubblypop

>In order to repopulate a nation after >conflict, you will need more females then male.

So what are you suggesting? Seems like you are suggesting polygamy which is not something one hears many modern western women calling for? Indeed, I think feminists might call it a patriarchal system. Currently it’s illegal to have more than one wife.

PS My quote button doesn’t work for some reason.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118696642#Comment_118696642

I'm not calling for anything.

I'm merely suggesting a possible historical reason for men being conscripted over women.

And you do know people don't have to be married to have sex right........

It's absolutely not fair. Doesn't mean it's not the right option though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118692128#Comment_118692128

You live in Ballybough, Ringsend and Dorset Street? Impressive.

I grew up very close to Ballybough and yes, I do have a problem with the area.

endacl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUXqH1rhHrc

fryup

but what about sissy boy's??

iptba

As I mentioned, my principal interest in this topic relates to conscription in general and military service in general.

However, just to deal with a specific point referenced in this thread in case it gets forgotten in the future: although "women between 18 and 60 who are 'fit for military service' and work in a broad range of professions" were required to register for military conscription, according to a report in December, they haven't in fact been conscripted to the best of my knowledge, unlike men between 18 and 60.

Israel have mandatory military service for women.

iptba

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719655#Comment_118719655

Yes, some other countries also too. But many don’t even when women can hold a considerable number of jobs in the paid military.

Most countries with mandatory military service have exemptions anyway, so not really mandatory at all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118693132#Comment_118693132

Maybe, but in Urban warfare, there isn't such a need to be so fit/battle trained. There have been many examples throughout modern history where the local population of an urban centre have managed to significantly maul a professional military.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118719561#Comment_118719561

I don’t get the point of the thread then to be honest. It’s in the Gentleman’s Club forum but seems to be more concerned with the idea that women aren’t conscripted as opposed to discussing the idea of men being conscripted? It’s bloody confusing to be honest.

I’d care more if the the thread was just about the value or none of conscription as it pertains to men, but making the point that women aren’t conscripted just seems petty tbh, it’s kinda why I was thinking that surely can’t be the issue.

iptba

If say, women with no children were conscripted, fewer men with children (including some who are a primary caregiver) would have to be conscripted for similar numbers.

And in general, the more women that are conscripted, the fewer men that need to be conscripted to get similar numbers.

I've also seen people say that if women get conscripted, governments could be more reluctant to conscript at all. Or be quicker to stop wars, or change tactics, if they're coming home in body bags in significant numbers.

Sandor Clegane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118692482#Comment_118692482

Be more in their line to send politicians to help the wounded, force them to do the fighting if they really believe in the cause, Vietnam was a war they shouldn't of been involved in, same as Iraq.

That's why mandatory service and conscription is bollocks, you could get sent to fight in some bullshit phoney war and die for nothing.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722055#Comment_118722055

I think I see where you’re coming from, and it explains the confusion - we have different views on the underlying principles of conscription. You seem to be in favour of the idea to the degree that you’re arguing women, as well as men, should be conscripted, whereas I’d be of the opposite view that not only should women not be conscripted, men shouldn’t be conscripted either.

I think Muhammad Ali’s views of the draft in America at the time of the Vietnam War sums it up better than I ever could -

“Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go ten thousand miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?

No, I am not going ten thousand miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would put my prestige in jeopardy and could cause me to lose millions of dollars which should accrue to me as the champion. 

But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is right here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality…

If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. But I either have to obey the laws of the land or the laws of Allah. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail. We’ve been in jail for four hundred years.”

https://alphahistory.com/vietnamwar/muhammad-ali-refuses-to-fight-1967/

iptba

There are basically two options relevant to this discussion if one doesn’t believe in conscription (or military service):

- I don’t believe in conscription (or military service) but if some country decides to impose it, I think it should only apply to men, women should be exempt.

or

- I don’t believe in conscription (or military service) but if some country decides to impose it, I think neither gender should be exempt

iptba

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118751825#Comment_118751825

I suppose given the times we live in one could even add a third:

- I don’t believe in conscription (or military service) but if some country decides to impose it, I think it should only apply to women, men should be exempt. [Sample justification: men were conscripted in the past so positive discrimination is justified, could change culture, etc.

whisky_galore

Gender quotas for conscription, for the day that's in it...

Well, honestly, I see no real difference between men and women, in terms of conscription. Perhaps this is due to having lived in Asia for so long, but if you look at many SE Asian countries they have a greater emphasis on women serving in the military. Such armies will still be stacked heavily towards male participation, but they don't have the same hangups that occur in the West about women serving as frontline troops.

I'd be in favour of women sharing the same burden in terms of men facing conscription. Put men into the roles which they're particularly suited to (more physically demanding), and the same for women, who might hold fixed emplacements, or operate AA assets.

Although, TBH I can't help thinking of myself and my male friends being conscripted. None of us are strong, or particularly fit. So, the gap between women and men being conscripted, there's a good chance that the women are fitter from the beginning, than many men out there. 😂

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118751835#Comment_118751835

There’s a whole ton of options that anyone can consider? Conscription and military service are not the same thing in any case - I have the greatest of respect for anyone serving in the defence forces, I have many objections to conscription.

Seeing as we’re in the Gentlemen’s Club forum, and conscription has historically applied to men, and it has been detrimental to men’s welfare, I don’t see how anything good can possibly come of forcing women to register for the draft. It’s the height of nonsense to suggest that extending conscription to women has anything to do with gender equality, whereas opposing the draft as it applies solely to men is in the interests of men’s welfare.

That way everyone who wants to, gets to stay at home, regardless of their sex, and they don’t get involved in conflicts they didn’t start, and everyone has the choice as to whether or not they wish to join the defence forces and serve their country, knowing that there is a risk they may suffer with significant mental health issues in later life, if they don’t come home in a coffin.

Who exactly benefits from seeing their loved ones suffer the effects of fighting in a war they didn’t want to be involved in, or burying their loved ones who were forced to fight? There’s absolutely no benefit either to men, to women, to anyone, of such a twisted way of presenting such an abhorrent concept as if it’s motivated by notions of gender equality.