Identity....?

Sugar_Rush

Is this something you think about, ever?

Your "identity".

What does that even mean?

I think it's a topic so pertinent at the moment as in many respects it's what countries go to war over (and have since the start of time).

Maybe AH is or is not the appropriate forum but it's not exactly a "current affair" as it's a matter for perpetuity/ongoing, not just "current", and despite being politically relevant (the heart beat of politics in many respects) you just know "Politics" moderators won't see it that way.

Capt'n Midnight

I had a friend , David who was a victim of ID theft.

He's now called Dav.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058234889/identity

Not sure what you are on about exactly, anyway I identify very much with being a woman and feel very female at a deep level and couldn't imagine being a man is it that sort of identity you are talking about?

Capt'n Midnight

Was it the Greeks who said you are three people ? Who you think you are, who others think you are and who you really are.

An octopus doesn't have personality or rather if they do it changes a lot day to day, being timid or brave or active or whatnot, I like that about them. Shapeshifting aliens are among us.

Never has identity mattered more. Never has it mattered less. People get worked up over it but in reality there's more social movement and more social acceptance, there's laws against discrimination, there are labour saving devices and power steering and mechanical aids, driverless cars and all sorts of advances in medicine and prosthetics, bionic eyes exist.

Apart from affordable housing and the rich getting obscenely richer there's never been a time with more equal opportunities for us.

While you can't ever fully eliminate prejudice, identity matters less than ever in defining how people are treated.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118699904#Comment_118699904

The OP is talking about who we are deep inside beyond being a man or a woman.

My identity is something I can't articulate because it's a sort of core sense of who I am. For example I can't say that my profession is my identity, or being a wife and daughter, etc. It's more than all of that because God forbid if my life changed on it's head tomorrow I know I would still be me.

I actually think it's really important to not latch on to particular roles when thinking about our identity. For example if your whole identity is based on being a mother, how do you let your children go when they become adults? If it is your job what happens if you lose it?

I'd agree that identity is a huge topic at the moment. It's something we still don't have the right vocabulary to really think about properly, never mind trying to talk about it.

I'd also agree that identity is a key factor in war, but not in terms of being what we go to war over. What we go to war over is decided by people in power, who are looking for more power, or money, land, security, etc. Identity comes into play more so on the ground level. You have to create an 'us' vs. 'them' mentality or you'd never get people to fight for you.

Identity on a more societal/interpersonal level has become fairly harmful IMO. The human mind works fairly quickly to label things, because it helps us make quick decisions. But it means we often label people pretty broadly and make a tonne of incorrect assumptions about them. It also leads to people feeling like they need to live up to all assumptions under a label if they want to belong to it. Then you've got the uglier aspects where you get these 'us' vs. 'them' scenarios, people hating and hurting each other for no good reason, or living in fear that they'll be rejected by their community if they can't live up to the community's shared identity.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118699904#Comment_118699904

That's an extreme incarnation of it but yes, that of course does constitute identity.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118700024#Comment_118700024

Kind of missing the point but okay....

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118700047#Comment_118700047

That becomes an issue, if ones identity determines their sense of purpose in life and that gets taken away, where does that leave them?

I truly believe that's why some women tend toward having a bunch of kids so young, not cause they believe they can raise them adequately (as the opposite happens) but, to give themselves an identity and sense of purpose.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118700084#Comment_118700084

Emotionally driven and determined.

If our actions are emotionally driven (which of course they are), that's what fuels the impetus for violence or to clash with others.

Going to war over resources etc., historically perhaps that was a factor, but recent opinion (which I agree with) emphasizes it's again, an emotionally driven agenda (sometimes imperialism, racism).

Look at Putin?

No doubt he's got a burning inferiority complex, historically he's taken every opportunity to promote himself as some kind of He-God; I mean if there was ever a case of over-compensating.

What I mean to say is, at least it is my opinion that identity is an extrapolation of emotional structure/competence, approach, understanding, awareness.

Like the above poster mentioned gender-identity, a person is unquestionably conditioned, say in the case of a man, towards effeminacy which renders a physiological outcome of believing in some capacity they are a woman, and under certain physiological terms, they are (as their genes have essentially began to express themselves as such, not entirely, but to a certain extent - effeminate features, slender frame, effeminate gait etc.).

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118700084#Comment_118700084

And I would just add to your initial sentence in that, it's not we don't have the vocabulary to think about it, as the vocabulary of most modern languages is actually quite comprehensive - it's just we don't have sufficient awareness of the topic to define it specifically in the words and language that we do have at our disposal.

The broad means to characterize this phenomenon is known as, "cognitive function".

Jequ0n

The funniest thing about the ever increasing confusion of one’s own identify is that people genuinely think that anyone cares about who they are.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118701795#Comment_118701795

Doesn't work like that chief.

We're all connected..... electromagnetically and shit.

We're all connected.

All connected...... sing it with me now....

https://youtu.be/sSvQaP1FG7M?t=44

...... all connected.

Sugar_Rush

There's definitely the potential for some better conversation on this topic.

Considering globalism, culture and identity threats and crises the world over, and it's not like Ireland is immune to this.

Hell we have a pretty grim history attempting to defend our historical ethos's which have become so obscured, most of us don't even know what they are any more.

........

Maybe if we introduce media which popularizes the concept of identity in (what some consider to be) more glamorized terms.

Taken from the film called (not entirely co-incidentally) "Identity", I guess you could say this is kind of a bad ass scene, but it portrays the killer whom assumes the identity of 9 different individuals in his own mind (known clinically as "dissociative identity disorder"), as a means to cope with some deep seated trauma?

https://youtu.be/_W1joC0Y0Vg?t=35

Some contend with this condition, the actual biochemistry of the individual varies as they cycle from one identity to the next.

i.e. the supposedly ethereal concept of "identity" in reality has appreciable (to profound) physiological implications.

goldenmick

Identity.

Starts with the same first 2 letters as idiot.

Just saying.

BaywatchHQ

My identity is defined my inceldom, isolation and depression.

sutrapall

Identity is "the state or quality of being identical, or the same; sameness."

The more you identify yourself with a label or thing, the more bland and less unique you are likely to be in terms of person.

The more an identity is displayed on the outside, blue hair, big mouth, "look at me, listen to me, I'm an X!" and so on, the less likely there is any substance inside. Simple compensation.

Identity comes at the expense of character, so in a world of internet marketing its natural to encounter less character, and more identity. Bland, boring, insipid people parading their lack of character by stepping into line behind a pre-approved identity.

But that is looking at identity on a personal level only. On a national level, it is a very different thing. In fact, you could almost swap the meaning.

Overall, you may be a character, but that doesn't mean you have character.

Sugar_Rush

Interdasting conversation and determinations over the politics subforum, in relation to the idea of "sovereignty" and identity.

......

Let me take another tact here, hmmm?

......

Riddle me this, learned minds of AH;

What is it you suppose, that defines identity?

What defines the nature of ones character?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058234889/identity

Yes, I do think about it quite a lot.

And I'm not sure I know what it is. I mean, I know that I have personality traits that could be described quite easily but I don't know if they are a core part of my being or whether they are just ways that I think/act in particular situations.

I also, throughout my life have looked at people who are very passionate about a particular thing, such as being a fan of a sports team, and how that seems to be part of their identity and not feeling that it is the same for me even though I am a fan of sports and some teams in particular.

I think your identify would be something that is unchanging about you or how you think or act in all situations. Or it could be a feeling or a motivation that you have about something that you would be willing to put yourself in harms way for in order to defend. Such as fighting to retain your freedom or risking death by throwing yourself in front of a car to protect your child. In both cases, I would suggest that that motivation was part of someones identity.

The fact that I do not have a family (or partner) means that I cannot consider how I feel about them or within that environment in terms of identifying my own identity and that is something that I think would influence a lot of people when they think in this way.

One thing I have noticed since I moved to the US is how religion is something that would immediately come to mind for some people when they think of this question. I know some devout people back in Ireland but for them I think they see it as how they act or believe something whereas here, with at least 2 unconnected people I have met, they very much see it as something as who they are. To give you an example to demonstrate this, one of these people is a music student/composer and recently announced he is performing a piece he composed. And when he shared this information with a group of us, he said that his experience in deciding to devout himself to Christ is the basis for the composition. I would be 100% sure that if I asked him what his identity was, that his faith would be one of the first things he would mention in his answer.

AllForIt

I don't think about it ever, it's complete nonsense.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733646#Comment_118733646

That's like saying you don't think about how the respiratory system works or that oxygen keeps your body functional.

Just cause you don't understand or pay attention to it, doesn't make it nonsense.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733646#Comment_118733646

Well it's nonsense the way it's being discussed here....

It does not matter how you identify because right now the most fundamental principles we live by are being challenged and there is no choice but to stand up for them, if we fail to do so then we all will suffer the consequences.

Irish men and women did not fight a revolution to have us held hostage to a dictator. They fought it so that we determine the destination of the nation, be it UN, EU or even NATO membership, they are our decision to make. And after an extremely painful period they also demonstrated the need to accept the decision of the electorate even when you don't agree with the decision. And people who try to put ideas and words into death heroes in an attempt to justify their stance, only demonstrate how little they understand our heritage.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736250#Comment_118736250

This demonstrates a complete deficit of awareness as to the actual comprising concepts of identity, what it means or what it is.

Some people have to wave their flag and cry nationalistic importance, probably their overcompensation for feeling inwardly irrelevant.

Identity is individual, just cumulatively reflected in national heritage.

Excessive nationalism for the sake of it without the express focus on quality of policy and life quality is a pass time for the idle.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736048#Comment_118736048

Not a very good analogy. Everyone has a respiratory system. Identity is supposed to distinguish you from others.

I'm gay and classed as a 'protected minority'. But my identity is not 'gay', while other gay people would say it is their identity. Personally if I were pushed to state an identity it would be white western far and above the fact I'm gay. I would base that on the fact there are other parts of the world that are decidedly not white western and I don't mean simply geographical location when I say western. I suppose I mean culturally. But I wouldn't make a big deal of that either, I know it's just a culture I'm accustomed to. I'm not particularly nationalist either, not in the political sense but in the waving the Irish flag proudly wherever I go, or get teary eyed when Ireland does well in international sport or in any respect.

To elaborate on why I said it's nonsense, I think it's nonsense if one focuses on a single characteristic of oneself and say it's your 'identity'. I think it's quite a decisive idea in many ways. It causes unnecessary division, which can't be good.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753209#Comment_118753209

To elaborate on why I said it's nonsense, I think it's nonsense if one focuses on a single characteristic of oneself and say it's your 'identity'. I think it's quite a decisive idea in many ways. It causes unnecessary division, which can't be good.

It doesn't necessarily mean that someone has decided to focus on something about themselves and and select that as their identity but that people recognize that there are elements to their persona that define them so forcefully that it could be said to be their identity.

You are conflating identity with appearance.

Sugar_Rush

This right here.

https://youtu.be/i59BbOpfvBQ?t=320

The true motive of conflict in Ukraine.

It's about identity, it's about emotional conflict, it's essentially grand-mal bullying maneuver from a resentful autocracy toward a nation that's accepts and promotes freedom of thought;

From an expert.

riclad

thats national identity, say someone identifys as russian that does not mean they support putin or they war on ukraine, identity is complex,

eg do you see your self as working class, white, male, straight, theres also racial identity, are there kids who identify as irish/polish, because thier mother is polish . and theres religious identity, eg irish,female,catholic etc are you middle class, working class, or just very well off ? are you a dub or a if i can use that word, culchie, someone from a rural area.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118868568#Comment_118868568

That's definitely an over complication, re national vs personal vs societal vs gender vs income echelon etc etc.

Not trying to shoot down anyone who contributes but again, it just goes to show how little we actually comprehend the concept itself.

goldenmick

Having to define your "identity" matters not one jot. Just live your life, without having to categorise, label yourself or project who you are. You have life, isn't that enough?

The human race is nothing but billions of ants scurrying about the place, each here for only a short time, and there are a million and one things a whole lot more important to say and do in that time without stressing over the need to "define your identity". Ridiculous.

riclad

We all have an identity whether we like it or not. Eg Irish, working class, male, religious affiliation, or atheist. It shows in how you dress, your hairstyle, do you only buy brand name trainers, or you an iPhone or android user. Eg we all belong to different tribes, Catholic, protestant, Muslim, etc I understand there's maybe a few punks left or anarchists that might reject labels, so people define the self by other things, I'm a gamer, I'm a Liverpool fan, in the 60s there were mods and rockers, in the 80s new romantics. Why do people spend 200 euro on a jacket or a designer watch, because they want to project a high class image . Normcore is buying basic clothes so as to portray a neutral image. Non threatening outside the changing modes of fashion the clothes you wear are part of your identity the image you want to portray or to fit in with your friends

bellylint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058234889/identity

Nope not in slightest. You can try and impugn identity onto me but that is your rhetoric, and possibly to suit an agenda.

I live my live and when die in 50 years if somebody remembers my name I will be lucky. That is what is for the vast majority of people I would propose.

I would advocate to try not giving a **** and try to focus on this **** that makes you happy.

Sugar_Rush

Wars have been fought since the start of time over the concept.

Continue to be fought (verified by a political professional in the publication video).

How can all these replies possibly trivialize the implications of something so profound.

.......

I guess it's the equivalent of fatalism in the face of something we just can't effect or control (except in this case it's something we just fail to understand)..... ?

bellylint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118868911#Comment_118868911

That is not what identity is. Identity is what makes you different from other gamers and liverpool fans. Not your 'tribe' aspect of things. Anyways the question from OP was do you think about it. We all have identity whether we can comprehend it or not, Does it make a difference in your life is what the OP is overtly asking though I would be open to the point that he is asking about tribalism

bellylint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118868823#Comment_118868823

ah to be fair one person doesn't define an interpretation - that is just willfully glib

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118868947#Comment_118868947

It's the (unfortunate) reality of our time.

Though to be fair historically it's been much much worse (re cultural/identity understanding and resultant conflicts).

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118868943#Comment_118868943

If it defines our very gene expression, it's probably fair to say it makes a difference in our life.

Sugar_Rush

History of Ukraine V Russia tensions:

https://youtu.be/l1WL2VJOn2A?t=130

Again, comes firmly down to identity.

Brass tacks:

What is identity?

It's what defines our beliefs and behaviours.

And what underwrites that?

Emotional disposition.

And what determines emotional disposition?

.........

How men relate to women, and vice-versa.

That's it, that's all.

.......

When all is said and done, we're just one great big fumbling mess of sexual morons.