Russian warship, go f**k yourself!

older by the day · 08-03-2022 12:37pm

This is a bit controversial but if the west had stayed out of it. Move the Ukrainian government west. Let Putin put in his pro Russia chronies. Then fight a guerilla war. Topple the government and bring back democracy. The west could have fixed up their bounds ditch. And Ukraine would not be destroyed. And for the normal lad going to work he would have his family. Much the same way the French saved Paris in ww2.

Say my name · 08-03-2022 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118750115#Comment_118750115

The bounds ditch was fairly well maintained by the Russians in the ussr in Europe. You'd be shot crossing it.

What makes you think the bounds ditch wouldn't be similarly fenced now if the Ukrainians gave their country to Russia and hoped later to cross back?

58,000 free French forces were killed by the Nazis during the occupation.

Jews and anyone that didn't take their fancy were on top of that.

Same happens in Russia today if you're not liked and low profile. You're disappeared.

Journalist who broke the story of Russian government bombing their own subway to justify the war in chechnya was poisoned with pullonium.

older by the day · 08-03-2022 1:08pm

Because sooner or later the majority of the people will have there say. And if the Russian army is a bit shaky. Then it is easy for them to get overwhelmed the more extended they will get

Bass Reeves · 08-03-2022 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118750115#Comment_118750115

And where would Putin stop if the west rolled over and left him tickle it belly. This war was going to have to be fought some place. If not Ukraine, the Baltic states/ Finland or would we wait for Putin to invade Poland or East Germany.

Putin and dictator's like him are only every stopped by war. They keep pushing until someone says stop.

The mistake was in 2014/15 when he invaded Crimea, the US and EU governments then should have put boots on the ground and used the 1995 Ukraine nuclear disarmament gairantees as it's excuses. But Obama was all show to an extent.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118749991#Comment_118749991

He might look doddery but either him or some of his administration ate very sharp and running this fairly right. He was always a deal maker or do we are told.

He has none of Trump's bluster. Trump's plan last weekend was to paint Chinese marking's on US and European plane's and BB Moscow.......what amazing is it seems he was serious🙄🙄🙄

In a way I am.wsiting for analysis of this in 3-3 years time to see was it Biden( I suspect it was) or a few of his top aids.

Macron and Scholz tried there best to stop Putin, the Israeli PM at present as well as other. Biden administration have been on the ball since the start.

patsy_mccabe · 08-03-2022 2:15pm

Without knowing for certain, you have to suspect there is huge tooling up of Ukraine forces with weapons, jetfighters etc from the west. Officially there is no enforced no-fly zone, but if Ukraine can decimate Russia in the air, its' a war they can win on the ground. It's a brilliant move in a way. Play along with Putin's demand and allow the Russian's to fly over Ukraine, but slowly pick them off one by one with western Javelins' etc. Putin can't complain about it as he will be publicly conceding how effective the Ukraine's are. The West can simply say, well there not our weapons.

Judging by Putin's latest demands in the Reuters article linked above, the war does seem to be turning in Ukraine's favour. Long may it do so.

08-03-2022 2:41pm

An army marches on it's trucks....

https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1500213943012319252?s=20&t=eLl2HYm47kDU3lbeUq2HzA

Easten · 08-03-2022 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118750852#Comment_118750852

The Ukrainians don't agree with you. I don't see this ending quickly unless the west draw a line and say enough is enough. The longer it goes on the more likely Russia will fail but it will still be another holocaust that the west allowed

For Ukraine:

Home country
They are fighting defensive
Unlimited weapons supply from the west
Better weapons tech
Almost unlimited line of Volunteers
Out numbered yes but will to Fight to the Death
Option to go to Gorilla warfare for years if Russia gain control

Against Ukraine

Smaller army
No nukes
Very late in getting weapons from the west and struggle to get them now
Already lost ground to the Russians
Risk of them being isolated from supplies
Sanctions will take a long time to grind down Russia
Could be trapped in the cities and bombed to pieces

For Russia

Largest army
Ruthless leader who doesn't care about peoples lives
Heavy artillery
Home population kept in the dark and fed lies
They control the Skies
They have the threat of Nukes to keep the west from getting involved

Against Russia

Old equipment that hasn't been maintained properly
Supply lines not working properly
Using artillery on civilians
Low moral amongst the troops
No Volunteers or Will to fight
Cannot get the enemy to engage in the open
Getting bogged down, the longer the War goes on the weaker they become
Huge sanctions cutting off money and technology from them
Running out of money fast
Risk of revolt in Russia now is very real and they need the war to end fast
The rest of the world is outraged and even China is starting to turn on them now as the risk of a world recession is the last thing they need

Easten · 08-03-2022 3:50pm

I agree no one can be a winner from this. The world is not going to be the same again either. Europe should never again be so dependant on one Country. If anything Europe, China and the US could be classed as an Oligarchs too as they have benefited from Cheap and plentiful resources from Russia while knowing full well that it was fuelling the Kremlin

Easten · 08-03-2022 6:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118751726#Comment_118751726

And Ireland, we've become a little luxury USA with the amount of single person SUVs and Cars, cheap holiday flights, cheap food, Cheap imports like Russian timber as well as the Oil.

amacca · 08-03-2022 7:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118752617#Comment_118752617

Yeah in fairness we can't exactly act holier than thou or take a high moral ground here

Hopefully this will focus minds on the things that really matter and the pen pushers will take their heads out of their collective holes and make fairer more sensible decisions rather than the easy way out or knee jerk populism

yosemitesam1 · 08-03-2022 8:07pm

Putin seems like he's pretty much on track to get what he wanted from the start.

Zelensky open to giving the assurances re nato/security.

What happens with the donbass region seems to be up for agreement on. Putin might have never been too bothered about it. Something to give away to close the deal...

If things were going as bad for the Russians as the western propaganda was suggesting, why would he give any ground up at all?

amacca · 08-03-2022 8:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753078#Comment_118753078

He will have to be given something if he is to back out gracefully

Putin leaves with his tail between his legs and nothing else then he might as well escalate as he's a dead man walking anyway in that event imo

yosemitesam1 · 08-03-2022 8:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753133#Comment_118753133

If he was under as much pressure as twitter and media here would try and make us believe, it's pure madness to give up anything.

Obviously things are not going as good for zelensky as was made out.

Waffletraktor · 08-03-2022 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753078#Comment_118753078

All this is about Russia not wanting Ukraine to become the new Eu petrol station and the curtain would be raised on them as the need wouldn’t be there to deal ith them and loss of influence. Getting Nato off the Eurasian steppe is a bonus as every air port/field in Romania to Poland and back would be needed to host the fighter bomber fleet to go on the offensive. The aim in all of this was the hydro carrbon reserves in the Crimea area and stopping Ukraine becoming a 1st world nation on the resource wealth and Europes prefered choice.

Something that's become un fashionable in the west these days of going and securing self interest above all else, and until the next technological leap forward with hydrogen propulsion and the RR style micro reactor Europe can go cry unless it's willing to go take what's needed as there aint much mineral resource to be easily got at anymore. The rare earth elements needed for the fancy stuff will be the new oil.

Giving out about putin being 18th century when you expect everyone to hold your values and play 'fair' is sadly being proven wrong as is economies based on buying insta likes and posting coffee to each other buyng cheap shyte to be thrown away tommorow from China. The clip of Putin laughing at greta saying it's not right to just allow wealthy westerners have fridges and why shouldn't others shows the detachment of western values from what's happening outside the bubble.

08-03-2022 8:30pm

Excellent news

https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/statement-of-the-minister-of-foreign-affairs-of-the-republic-of-poland-in-connection-with-the-statement-by-the-us-secretary-of-state-on-providing-airplanes-to-ukraine

amacca · 08-03-2022 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753173#Comment_118753173

I don't know is the simple answer

I do think he could be under pressure as he looks to have badly misjudged the reaction and misjudged the effectiveness of his "special operations".......

But if you don't give an inch and press home the advantage then you've cornered a rat......but importantly one with the kind of options that would make you think twice about the wisdom of taking him on right now.....chemical warfare, thermobaric, tactical nukes.....Im no expert at all but I cant be sure these wouldn't make an appearance if Putin is fighting for his life........you could be talking millions dead if you play poker with this guy.....he has demonstrated he is a dirty player on many occasions.

Would he cross the rubicon? is he a bluffer? History wouldn't judge you too kindly if you decided to call pre flop and it turned out he was willing to do it and those around him were too afraid to stand in his way

The chips on the table here are millions of lives........its past the point of no return if he does it but until that point things can be going spectacularly wrong but he's still in the game because he's got that ace card.........depressing as that is.

jaymla627 · 08-03-2022 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753218#Comment_118753218

You’d think so but it seems the White House is getting cold feet now, it’s time to put up our shut up on their part

https://mobile.twitter.com/TaraCopp/status/1501284300892770311

Say my name · 08-03-2022 9:45pm

http://twitter.com/Adoptedbycats/status/1501290134620327943

Waffletraktor · 08-03-2022 10:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753688#Comment_118753688

You'd think Merkle had to be a 5th columnist or just sooooo selfish to get her moment on top.

09-03-2022 12:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753672#Comment_118753672

Was on a call most of the evening, just caught up on that now. Surely too good of an offer to refuse. Stingers and Javelins are already killing russians and aren't walking over borders by themselves so what's the problem.

Bass Reeves · 09-03-2022 1:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753261#Comment_118753261

I have learned over the years when facing a bully you walk into his space. When he steps forward you step forward.

However after going eye to eye, if he hesitate's do you push on or give him room to step back.

Being a total bollix I tend to step forward and take my chances. Other's accept s 1-0 win even though it seems they lost

yosemitesam1 · 09-03-2022 8:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118754940#Comment_118754940

From the russian pov that is exactly what Putin did stepping things up to the west.

Both sides are bullies in the other's eyes...

Say my name · 09-03-2022 9:17am

Putin is not a rational person.

Otherwise we wouldn't be where we are.

https://twitter.com/AndrewPRLevi/status/1501362971699814403?t=v0vatfCbibBOau31HETSMw&s=19

Easten · 09-03-2022 9:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755121#Comment_118755121

The flaw in your rhetoric is Putin didn't wage war on the west, his brave stand up to the bully move as always is to pick on a minor neighbour country. One who thought he could walk into and they would steamroll over.

What really was planned was to invade, put in puppet government the rape and pillage the country and the Oligarchs would divide up the spoils to fund there never ending party.