Is it time to join Nato

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790558#Comment_120790558

Opinions which fly in the face of facts are worthless.

BalcombeSt4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120794543#Comment_120794543

Norway & Sweden weren't involved in imperialistic wars? What?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Norway don't need to post Sweden. Both have been involved in at least two this century alone.

It's a fact, Ireland as a state was not involved in any imperial war, either as part of a military alliance or single combatant, unless you count the crushing of the Irish Republic by the Free State as an act of imperialism.. It has nothing to with feeling anyway sort of way, there's plenty pf more things that make me ashamed of this country, pervert priests, mother and baby homes, magdalene laundries, the huge inequality in Irish society, the fawning over every US president who comes here, the abandonment of the Irish nationalists in the north, the lack of a proper NHS, homeless crisis etc...

BalcombeSt4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120793143#Comment_120793143

Haha, true, but even the hard working Irish I still feel wouldn't fancy in a Russian winter with especially with the sound of Katyusha rockets firing on them.

Podge_irl

Ireland as a state didn't exist during times of imperialism. Imperial forces of the state we were part of were absolutely chock full of Irish soldiers however.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120795272#Comment_120795272

you're gonna have a hard time finding many in the world who would enjoy that

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120795224#Comment_120795224

Nope not imperialistic wars.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120792871#Comment_120792871

There has been no war in Western Europe in 70 years. The Balkan Wars were in former Warsaw Pact states and didn't impact on any NATO members. Pretty much a good outcome by any measure you care to take.

Many of the former Warsaw Pact and Soviet state have been imbroiled in wars on their own territory from the Crimea to Moldova, Armenia and Azerbijaan to the breakup of Yugoslavia. History will record a much better outcome for NATO members.

Unless of course you think all those wars were somehow the fault of NATO.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120792908#Comment_120792908

From a purely selfish point of view, you could argue that neutrality has served us well. It has allowed us to pontificate and lecture to the rest of the world while hiding hypocritically under the protection, mostly, of the UK, and to a lesser extent, other NATO members.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684117#Comment_120684117

It should be very clear by now that if the Russians are capable of destroying something they will, - it's more a question on what, and Ireland might not be on their focus lists and get away lightly.

But yes, I do think that Russia would have the military capability to occupy Ireland unless the Brits come to the rescue. Sure, you can laugh about my opinion, make fun of me, ridecule me, but if the Russians would invade Ireland, start interrogating you, torturing you, tearing down your house and raping your wife muliple times you will have a different opinion. And if you again, start asking why they would do that, is that they simply enjoy it, - same as in the Ukraine.

However at that time of Russian occupation of Ireland you will certainly no longer be able to express your opinion in the way you're used to. Also Ireland would sure be of strategic interest in case of a more global war, as an island in the North East of the Atlantic, with all or most of the transatlantic internet cables going via Ireland.

The Irish defence forces are small and incapable of defending. Their primary strong suit are UN peace missions.

Even if a majority of people of Ireland should despise NATO, even hate it, hate that the British are in NATO and that's the reason for not joining, at least Ireland should build up a military to the tune of Switzerland, and also join the planned SKY shield. There would be enough US business investment to protect as well.

Also, Ireland has to date no real own Irish air defences, that part is actually done by the "much hated" British RAF.

So it's now up to you to explain how much neutrality is part of Irish identity.

And yes, also the Nazis were interested in Ireland, as this documentary shows:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAL2273tNbc

Tony EH

Nazi "interest" in Ireland never went beyond paper plans. They simply didn't have the resources to engage in anything realistic. There were some mild attempts to encourage anti British sentiment and to make the British worry about a possible occupation, but this was never on the cards as an actuality. There were also some mickey mouse interactions with some IRA members and the Abwehr, but Operation Green was always a non starter because of a lack of genuine interest. In reality, Germany's wish for Ireland was that she remained neutral and not come into the war on the side of the British. This was particularly so once Operation Barbarossa was launched.

On the other hand, Britain also had paper plans for Ireland too (Plan W) that weren't in our best interests either as they were desirous of our ports facing the western approaches. In fact, we had more to worry about with regards to our nearest neighbours during WWII than anything the Germans had in mind, especially in the early years of the war.

As the war progressed, however, beyond 1941 and the German invasion of Russia neither Britain or Germany viewed Ireland as anything because their military interests were flung further than our shores.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755900#Comment_120755900

They will be arriving in Ukraine soon ,

markodaly

https://twitter.com/omarcagnato/status/1678739237296914432?s=20

..

downtheroad

Hard to understand our "neutrality" when we facilitate a meeting like this in our country.

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2023/09/23/zelenskiy-holds-unscheduled-meeting-with-head-of-sudan-in-shannon-airport/

greencap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121147329#Comment_121147329

Holy shyte!

Hotblack Desiato

If we were "neutral" in an invasion of a peaceful European nation then it's obvious that it's just cowardly bullshit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121147329#Comment_121147329

That's actually surprisingly neutral for us.

There were no Irish officials there. Shannon airport was used by those two nations to have a discussion.

Much better than us allowing Yankee jets to fuel while on their way to bomb innocent civilians.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121149325#Comment_121149325

We weren't neutral in WW2 and we're not neutral in Russia's invasion of Ukraine so I'm confused as to what you're on about?

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121149433#Comment_121149433

A neutral country would not have allowed this meeting to take place on on its land.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121149678#Comment_121149678

How can you stop anyone having a meeting?

If Russians had a meeting with North Koreans in Ireland right now, we couldn't stop it either.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121149691#Comment_121149691

The president of Ukraine arriving in Ireland was hardly unannounced. This was sanctioned by Dept of Foreign Affairs, who will try telling you Ireland is a neutral country.

Hotblack Desiato

snip

delusiondestroyer

Doesnt matter if we joining NATO or not we are only along for the spin anyway its the big countries that will decide our fate.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121149678#Comment_121149678

Why not? A neutral country is exactly what you need for helping negotiations take place during conflicts.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121149433#Comment_121149433

We don't allow any armed aircraft,

So no we didn't allow some Yankee jets to fuel on their way to bomb innocent civilians,

We did allow over 50 different militaries aircraft to land and fuel at Shannon.

None of which were armed fighter jets or bombers of any kind

clampedusa

Why would we join nato when Russia is getting the head boxed off it by Ukraine.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121149437#Comment_121149437

We weren't neutral in WW2?

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150920#Comment_121150920

As the Chief of the Army asked Dev back at the beginning of the Emergency, "For planning purposes, who are we neutral against?"

Eire was very definitely on the side of the Allies, even if it kept an official veneer of neutrality.

Hotblack Desiato

Well yes - from U-boat coast watchers to Donegal overflights to weather reports for D-day we favoured the Allies especially late in the war. But we remained neutral and a non-combatant.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121151823#Comment_121151823

We were as neutral as the circumstances allowed. But we played a very careful game with two countries that had invasion plans written up against us. Out of the two, the British plan was the more realistic and the more probable as well and we were observant of that reality as a German invasion was always an impossibility due to the fact that they hadn't the resources to carry out a seaborne landing.

Britain, on the other hand, "ruled the waves" and already occupied part of our country, and at the beginning of the war we were, naturally, more cautious with regards to a British invasion because we had just kicked them out after centuries of them coveting our soil. As the war went on, however, we tended to side with our neighbours and the hope for a German defeat for obvious reasons.

Flinty997

Germany invaded Norway and Britain tried and failed to stop that.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153514#Comment_121153514

They had the ability to launch airborne invasions and we hadn't the ability to stop such a situation at the time,we still don't have the ability to this day ,

Germany could have easily taken large parts of the country, majority of the country before anyone could do anything about it