Is it time to join Nato

breezy1985 · 22-03-2022 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118818935#Comment_118818935

What will I find in North Strand.

Yurt2 · 22-03-2022 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118818920#Comment_118818920

A lot of Curious George's around here who refuse to use a search bar.

Just plug it in and see what you come up with. Be less cock sure about what you know and don't know about history.

22-03-2022 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118818779#Comment_118818779

Deos this not essentially amount to an admission nato is hopelessly compromised by political interests??

and further expansion only serves to further the political interests of the bigger european countries

Essentially a military wing of eu,ukraine and co are free to join it,but i cant see any real benefit in doing so,i think notion that ukraine being in nato would have prevented a russian attack and war crimes is hopelessly naive......

unless it is willing to do to russia,what russia is doing to ukraine its pointless really and thankfully neither i dont see too many politians willing to put neck on the line to commit war crimes againest innocent russians

Yurt2 · 22-03-2022 3:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118818955#Comment_118818955

Oh cmon now Blaaz you're not actually seriously making the point that were Ukraine in NATO that Putin wouldn't have restrianed himself from launching a war?

Please. I'm happy to respond to speculation as long as it's grounded in some sort of reality, but that's just silly Billy stuff and I think you know so.

KieferFan69 · 22-03-2022 3:12pm

NO to NATO and NO to American troops using Shannon

breezy1985 · 22-03-2022 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118818947#Comment_118818947

Ok I had forgotten about that.

I will rephrase. The only foreign army to ever purposely carry out murder of innocent civilians since the formation of NATO were in NATO.

Yurt2 · 22-03-2022 3:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118818995#Comment_118818995

Ah those Nazi divils and their faulty compasses. Bet you didn't think you'd log in today making excuses for the Luftwaffe in WW2 in the effort to recover a pointless posting rabbit hole you found yourself in.

Yurt2 · 22-03-2022 3:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118818984#Comment_118818984

Sucks for you. Both happen and both will continue long into the future.

Long may NATO rule the skies over Europe, and lord save us from malcontents that would have Europe handed back to despots and wars of conquest in heartbeat because of their political pecadillos.

breezy1985 · 22-03-2022 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819048#Comment_118819048

Never defended what they done.

Clearly you are just one of these posters who takes and twists the tiniest bit of any post.

Who is Ireland in danger from without US protection. Do you believe China or Russia will invade the EU without the US ?

Yurt2 · 22-03-2022 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819075#Comment_118819075

My stance on Irish neutrality was made clear very early on in this thread. I'll refer you back to that.

And quit the nonsense, you're the poster going off on a mad one about Bloody Sunday or something.

breezy1985 · 22-03-2022 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819099#Comment_118819099

Simple yes or no. I'm not trawling back through the thread.

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2022 3:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118818744#Comment_118818744

Bush an Clinton playing geo- political games with real peoples lives.

22-03-2022 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118818970#Comment_118818970

Ive seen no solid evidence to contary?

Seen some fairly strong personal bias towards suggesting it....but nothing of any actual substance,all chest thumping, and smoke blowing but not an iota of actual evidence or even a leak from within kremlin

Ukraine would have found nato membership impossible to complete with an internal insurgancy/conflict,if this war was remotley about nato membership,all russia/anyone need do is keep pot stirring there and funnel weapons to the rebels

Looks to me,the work of lad loosing his grip in power,or attempting to bankrupt ukraine to extent it can never make/complete eu membership and prosper (which they would in the eu),thus spreading pro-eu membership sentiment within other smaller ex ussr countries....this hype about nato,simply deosnt stand upto scrutiny after they effectivly sitting on their hands for the last month

breezy1985 · 22-03-2022 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819223#Comment_118819223

So the answer is a solid No but you won't admit it.

Just another deflect and distract bad faith poster.

Yurt2 · 22-03-2022 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819167#Comment_118819167

Would you as an individual rather Ukraine in NATO for the protection of its people and it's democracy? Or posed more honestly, you fully understand why Ukraine in NATO under the wing of those awful creatures in Brussels and DC was and is the best thing for that nation and Eastern Europe generally.

This is rhetorical btw. Any attempt at you answering would have you striking an even more contorted pose.

Lay the blame where it needs to be layed Francie, turn your opprobrium towards where it aught to be turned. It isn't towards Brussels or DC.

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2022 4:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819428#Comment_118819428

I, the person who ignores history apparently, think that membership of NATO risked tearing Ukraine apart from within.

You are ignoring history.

Yurt2 · 22-03-2022 4:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819609#Comment_118819609

Well that's a nonsense.

The only danger to Ukraine tearing itself apart came from without with Moscow arming fringe groups and and sending Cossacks, extremists and unbadged Russian military across the border.

You're silly enough to take Kremlin hybrid warfare tactics at face value. In fact your entire stance is predicted on taking Kremlin disinformation at face value. You've proved yourself a willing consumer.

Those that actually pay attention to what was going on for the last decade or so know better.

Once again you've drank the kool aid and invite other people to take a drink.

You're hijacked and and a prime-time apologist Francie, it's time you owned up to it.

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2022 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819632#Comment_118819632

This is the history...from 2006 no less. You'll see Russia is at number 6 in the list.

At the moment, the issue of Ukrainian membership in NATO is on hold for a number of reasons including: (1) radically divergent opinions within the government (between the President and the Prime Minister) on the desirability of Ukraine seeking NATO integration (among many other issues), (2) lack of public support in Ukraine, (3) the need for considerable further reform, (4) the continuing complexity, fractiousness and uncertainty of the Ukrainian political process and disagreement over foreign policy prerogatives,4 (5) differing views among allies about Ukrainian membership in NATO and (6) Russian pressure.

Ukrainian Membership in NATO: Benefits, Costs and Challenges | George C. Marshall European Center For Security Studies (marshallcenter.org)

As I said elsewhere, perhaps it might be wise to have the discussion on joining NATO when the fever amongst the fevered dies down a bit.

The 'reds under the bed' narrative gets a bit tedious after a while.

Yurt2 · 22-03-2022 5:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819802#Comment_118819802

You must think people reading this are colossal idiots or you're really really dishonest in presenting the 6 points as a Top of the Pops list with Russia only coming in at number 6.

Maybe if you took a bit more time reading what you posted instead of doing blind Google-fu you would have come across the author's conclusions:

On NATO membership:

"Although I have tried to address these issues objectively and to present arguments concerning both the benefits and costs, I am sure that it has been clear that my view is that the benefits, far outweigh the costs."

On Russian interference and hybrid warfare:

"One analyst cataloged Russian current tactics towards Ukraine as follows: “1) ignore Kyiv’s pro-Western foreign policy, especially its NATO ambitions, at official level; 2) foment destabilizing developments inside of Ukraine, deepening the historical division of the country and halting Ukraine’s drive to NATO; 3) use direct economic, social, and cultural pressure as instruments of foreign policy;"

Rather buttresses my point and makes yours rather silly don't you think?

Try harder, do more reading, and be a better poster Francie

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2022 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819834#Comment_118819834

We KNOW that Russia has done all it can to stop Ukraine joining NATO Yurt..we know.

What you are ignoring is that Ukraine joining NATO risked Ukraine destabilising itself for a myriad of reasons of which Russian black ops was only one.

Now, please take the points made and backed up and stop the fancy (not a lot) footwork to try and deflect away from them.

Yurt2 · 22-03-2022 6:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819865#Comment_118819865

Francie you're as blind as one of the three blind mice. You've drank so much Kremlin-Aid you don't know which way is up. You even post an article from a think-tank without reading it - an article that assesses NATO membership as clearly beneficial to Ukraine - and try to spin it as a reason why they shouldn't have pursued it. 🤣

Since 2004, Russia has used every method it can throw at Ukraine, to tear the state down, arm extremists, send mercenaries and shadow state actors across the border, carve up the nation - and you downplay and file that alongside "myriad reasons" such as how their defense industry is structured - all to point the finger of blame away from Moscow and try to get others to buy it.

With every post you make, you're mining the Putinbot coal seam ever deeper.

Aside from your thorough dishonesty about your angle, you're also a deeply confused poster.

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2022 6:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819893#Comment_118819893

So back to the question we go again, IF NATO membership would be beneficial to Ukraine, HOW COME they are not in it?

I haven't offered an opinion on whether it would be beneficial for Ukraine or not BTW. The topic is, is the tme right for US to oin.

Yurt2 · 22-03-2022 6:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819909#Comment_118819909

To repeat Francie, this isn't the Oxford Union and I don't answer stupid questions that are an attempt from a low-quality poster to get into the pigpen.

"You haven't offered an opinion on whether it would be beneficial for Ukraine"

My word you are a dishonest poster.

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2022 6:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819922#Comment_118819922

Ok. Not hard to know why you won't answer. You are in NATO fever mode. The fact here is that while what Putin has done is a litany of war crimes and utterly condemned, NATO's concern is not, at heart, real people and their lives. We should have nothing to do with that.

I'll leave it at that.

Fasano · 22-03-2022 6:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819966#Comment_118819966

So what is the concern then?

are you saying NATO countries have moved thousands of personnel and equipment in to Romania, Poland, Slovakia, Czechia and the Balkan states for **** and giggles?

KieferFan69 · 22-03-2022 6:34pm

One of the most despicable things the Irish state has ever done is let American troops use Shannon

Yurt2 · 22-03-2022 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819966#Comment_118819966

BUT Nato. I've not seen a single post from you where you reluctantly criticize the Russian war without offering up BUT NATO, prevarications. You're codding yourself and other people if you think for a second people don't see through this, and concerns for Ukraine or anyone else are to the back of your mind. It's a desperate shame for the Republican movement which you're so outspoken about, because there's many like you within the ranks - and the movement will pay for it.

You're no better than Moscow Mick Francie, and unfortunately about as articulate.

I've been completely honest about my stance, NATO is not a luxury for Europe - the organization has kept a lid on fratricidal nationalist tendencies on the continent, has backstopped the European peace for three-quarters of a century, and allowed multilateralism and democracy to flourish against the forces that would tear it all down. It even protects the poor fools that under its umbrella are free to agitate with Kremlinite nonsense they picked up second hand. Long may it protect the people of Europe from fascists, fools and fifth columnists.

You're part of the BUT NATO crew - a ragtag coterie of cranks and malcontents that are fundamentally dishonest about their position and where their true loyalties lie. Even in the face of the most dangerous fascistic conflict the continent has seen in many decades, generated by a criminal enterprise that has hijacked a great European state, you continue the prevarication and washing your hands of your true opinions.