Is it time to join Nato

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118738968#Comment_118738968

Your hilarious I'll give you that

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118738974#Comment_118738974

Even when our own government say it?

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739000#Comment_118739000

Explain please?

3bn a year is more than a National Childrens Hospital PER YEAR

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739014#Comment_118739014

How many childrens hospitals would you like to build

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739020#Comment_118739020

Yes, that's the point I was making 🙄

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739029#Comment_118739029

And yes we can well afford to spend up to 3bn on our defense capabilities, even after several childrens hospitals,

You don't actually have any valid argument really ,

Sounds

If Ukraine was in the European Union now, wouldn't Nato have gone in and hit russia? like you're saying, they protect all EU states, but what happens when Ukraine is part of the EU? hopefully soon.. will Nato have to step up and go in? I don't wish war on anyone, not innocent people, but that murderer cannot be left get away with what he has done to these people and their country. This is as bad or worse than what hitler did. What's the point in having protection, if your neighbors can come in and destroy your country and your people. I can't turn on the news since yesterday, I'd be too upset. Nearly everyone we spoke to on YouTube that had live cams in and around kiev are gone, who knows what happened them, nobody knows yet.

Appologies none of my info was related to Ireland, I'm more concerned about Ukraine people.

BalcombeSt4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118738790#Comment_118738790

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735492#Comment_118735492

Yes, the idea of joining NATO because Russia is at war with Ukraine is laughable & makes zero sense. Why not join it after the Chechen war, Georgia war, Dagestan, North Caucasus insurgency war, Russia intervention in Syria & Iraq, or intervention in the CAR civil war? Russia, like the major NATO countries, has pretty much been involved in military conflicts since the end of the Cold War. What makes this different, are the people of Ukraine worthy of support but not Chechenya or the Central African Republic? The US is still carrying out airstrikes in Iraq, why not join NATO because of the US airstrikes in Syria & Iraq. Or the massacres carried out in Gaza by Israel, a number of times there was calls to expel the Israeli ambassador over war crimes against the people of Gaza.

Putin is a despicable gangster, but he is clearly no threat to Ireland.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739014#Comment_118739014

The health budget is over 22bn. Did Ireland get seven National Childrens Hospitals last year? Or are budgets more complicated than that?

Those are some comparisons that the Irish Government decided to use as counterparts in the recent defence paper. Are there no childrens' hospitals in Denmark?

jackboy

I still haven’t heard a decent explanation how spending the extra money would be useful, other than the crazy idea that Russia would bypass the whole of Europe and invade us for some unclear reason.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118738967#Comment_118738967

You'd have the invading forces building up in a relatively unpopulated land, wide open to being taken out by UK forces if they decided to or were asked to by Ireland, and doing nothing useful other than getting ready to do another invasion into Wales but giving the UK plenty of time to rearrange defences in Wales at the same time as preparing another front to come in from NI. Can't see why the UK would hesitate to take out invading forces into Ireland seeing as the only reason for someone to invade Ireland would be to then invade the UK, even if it is a stupid way to invade the UK. No reason why Ireland wouldn't ask the UK to do so either and welcome the UK doing so.

No reason to invade Ireland at all. Even if the aim was to take out some technology centres, you'd just do that remotely or with some local sabatours.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739573#Comment_118739573

Yep exactly right. Well said. It's a pointless debate really.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735558#Comment_118735558

This is absolute nonsense.

Attacking Ireland would be as easy as attacking Vatican City, but bombing the pope would not be consequence free

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739042#Comment_118739042

An additional 3 billion a year is well over a thousand euros per household

I would much prefer to spend that money ending homelessness or supporting refugees than building SAM missiles that would be destroyed in the first wave of any serious attack leaving us just as vulnerable as if we never had any in the first place

helto

The British government recently ensured that the murderers within the British armed forces would get away with killing innocent Irish people. The British armed forces waged a 30 year reign of murder and torture in Ireland up to the very recent past. These are facts and it's without looking at Britain's roll in Ireland pre 1969.

They are our biggest threat. Full stop. The last time it was left to ordinary Irish people to defend themselves against attack. Like the brave Ukrainians, not only did they protect their communities from ethnic cleansing, they went on the attack and sent many of the enemy home in body bags. This is our history, we've consistently stood up to invasion and attack and have fought back.

We don't need NATO to defend us.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739643#Comment_118739643

We don't need Sams ,

We've already spent billions on homelessness and got not now where and we've spent several billion on asylum seekers/refugee's over the years and again very little has changed or improved,

We do need active radar installations around the country , better naval assets,and an actual airforce with better and more helicopters , Surveillance capabilities.

WillYizCopOn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118705768#Comment_118705768

Couldn't agree with you more. It would be naive to think otherwise. So yes I think we should join Nato or a European Army. We are sitting ducks. For those who think otherwise, look out your window right now and visualise an invading army on your street, burning buildings, families torn apart, fear in children's eyes. It's a reality right now in Ukraine. Who's next?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739772#Comment_118739772

Curious logic, what are we going to get for our defence spend using that logic? I'll tell you, we would be more likely to shoot ourselves in the foot than anything else.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118737245#Comment_118737245

And the fact is, our foreign policy is to go on peacekeeping missions under the umbrella of the UN, knowing full well that any of the 5 top members have a veto.

Yes, I am well aware of that fact at present, hence why this discussion to perhaps remove the triple lock. You are afraid to remove it, in case we go full savage.

So why the taunt about the British mark?

It's not a taunt it's a fact. For the most prominent defender of all things SF/PIRA, it's kinda funny that you are OK with the Brits having a veto on our foreign policy.

I have repeatedly said I accept our foreign policy and that to achieve it under the widest umbrella possible is the only way to do it.

Great, you are entitled to your opinion, as I am. Pity you didn't think of the above before you advocated the invasion of the North.

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735729#Comment_118735729

What makes you believe they are murdering and raping thousands? You need a lot of evidence to back that conjecture up.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118737892#Comment_118737892

It isn't.

Neutrality is not enshrined in the constitution, so a government of the day can change it if they want to.

Eamon Dunphy's latest podcast with Diarmaid Ferriter is a worthwhile listen as if smashes away many of the presupposed arguments we have about our 'neutrality'.

Ouch Chinese Byrne

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736485#Comment_118736485

We're a far different prospect to Ukraine, geography alone makes any Russian invasion extremely problematic. Even the Wehrmacht from France didn't realistically contemplate invading.

Also very importantly we are a premier EU country, invading us would be a direct attack on the EU, as in an invasion of Germany, France, Italy etc.

Nobody seriously believes that is a realistic prospect.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739856#Comment_118739856

Out comes the handy cliché and stereotype again. Time you updated that one mark, it's tired.

Ha ha, you advocated for a scenario where the north could be invaded or we could have entered legally(re: ourselves) on an aid mission.

I was fully aware that an aid mission would be illegal without authorisation and that diplomacy would solve that rather than the British 'bombing us back to the stone age' nonsense and hyperbole.

Have to say, it was a fabulous moment when you said you favoured defence forces that could decide to go where they wanted. 😁

WillYizCopOn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739892#Comment_118739892

"Nobody seriously believes that is a realistic prospect."......Famous last words

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739934#Comment_118739934

Ha ha, you advocated for a scenario where the north could be invaded or we could have entered legally(re: ourselves) on an aid mission.

I advocated the ending of the triple lock, not invading a sovereign NATO nuclear power.... there IS a difference Francie.

I was fully aware that an aid mission would be illegal without authorisation and that diplomacy would solve that rather than the British 'bombing us back to the stone age' nonsense and hyperbole.

OK, so you fully admit that any incursion by the Irish Defence Forces into the North would be illegal under International Law, condemned by the UN, may have triggered NATO's Article 5 which means the Americans and French and the rest would come to the aid of the UK.... yet, you STILL advocate it as a reasonable and possible course of action?????

WTF!!!??

Credibility annihilated.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739892#Comment_118739892

Nobody bar the warmongers and the folk who want to be in a club.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739977#Comment_118739977

Absolutely I did because it was the morally right thing to do and because what happened after (the IRA filling the vacuum our moral cowardice created) was known to be inevitable and tragically happened.

There is a reason those Russian jets and subs etc that have been playing chicken with NATO powers were not 'blasted back to the stone age' mark, because nobody seriously believed they were a part of an invasion. Exactly the same as a flagged aid mission would have been seen. Invasion forces behave differently as even a fresh faced recruit in the FCA would be able to tell you.

Your preference would have made it entirely legal for us to go in...so thanks for that. If tensions ramped up again in the north, maybe you would be so bold as to suggest it this time if aid was needed.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118740005#Comment_118740005

Absolutely I did because it was the morally right thing to do 

ROFL :)

Ireland becoming an international pariah, losing the trust of the Americans in the process, plus suffering a sound military defeat..... yea but still worth it for the feelzz

Definition of a keyboard warrior right here.

Your preference would have made it entirely legal for us to go in

Eh, no, it would not have.

Is the Russian invasion of Ukraine legal? No, it's not. An invasion of the North by Ireland would also not be legal. What on earth made you write that gibberish?

It's clear you are straying away from your usual area of expertise here, and it's fully apparent to all.

FrancieBrady

Removing the 'triple lock' would then achieve what mark?

Seems to be you that has issues with the UN, can you flesh them out?