Doctor's Not Taking Debit Cards

Kintarō Hattori

Folks,

I'm just wondering why a lot of doctor's don't take debit cards in the 21st century. My own GP doesn't take them, it's cash only. My partner's GP does take them but recently she went to a different practice where they don't take them and again it's cash only. I'm sure it's not a question of fiddling the books but when these practices are busy, often employing admin staff, why don't they take them? We're moving to a cashless society regardless of whether we like it or not.

Atlantic Dawn

It's generally a tax dodge, they won't give you a proper receipt for the cash either.

Nigel Fairservice

My GP takes card but doesn't exactly advertise it. They will take it if you're stuck but cash is preferred. They only thing I can think of is the tax element.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714250#Comment_118714250

How do you mean a proper receipt? In the case of the latest doctor, my partner was issued a receipt. It's got some details and a stamp.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714273#Comment_118714273

This practice absolutely doesn't. He was trying to send her out to find an ATM.

wonski

wonski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714250#Comment_118714250

99% if not 100% of patients will ask for a receipt as it is needed for revenue /health insurance refund.

I always get the receipt when paying cash without asking anyway.

GP's are not stupid. Anyone who paid them wants a receipt.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714250#Comment_118714250

That's a rather sweeping statement to make, and an untrue one as well, I would say.

Any time I have paid cash to a doctor, I have received an official receipt that has been accepted by revenue for tax rebates.

FobleAsNuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714412#Comment_118714412

just FYI, but Revenue accepts receipts written on a napkin with lipstick - they don't question anything. until, of course, you are randomly selected for an audit, then they will trace it back to see if tax has been paid and whatnot

source: was on a board of directors for a non-profit

freshpopcorn

Some businesses don't want to accept card for whatever reason and we've had countless threads on it.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714411#Comment_118714411

Nowhere close to that %age.

The reason companies like tax assist exist is that large amounts of people do not claime the tax back on medical payments.

If 10% of their customer don't take an electronic receipt the GP income on that 10% can be doubled

Geuze

I'd say the reason is to do with bank fees / card fees, etc.

Mind you, there is always a consultant or two on every quarterly list of tax defaulters published by the Revenue.

wonski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714644#Comment_118714644

Well if those companies are doing so well their customers must have the receipts, no?

touts

Went to one Out of hours service with my son a couple of years ago. The receptionist could barely understand how we didn't have a medical card. Then I wanted to pay with card and you would think I had asked her to fill out a 50 page form in triplicate to invoice me. She had to go looking for the machine. Then plug it in. Then call a doctor to see if he knew how to work it. Then work out how to print the receipt. She asked me would I go to an ATM and get cash and I said if I left I was going home and not driving around the town at 11pm with a sick child on the back seat just because she didn't know how to use technology from 1990. It didn't go down well.

It sometimes amazes me the Russians found a computer system to hack in the Irish health service.

Larbre34

Every market stall and coffee cart I've come across in the last 18 months now takes cards using simple and cheap systems like Sum-up.

Given this and the fact that physical cash is a fomite for infection, there is no justifiable excuse for GPs not to accommodate card payments in all cases now.

They are either being cheap or engaged in low level tax fraud by persisting with cash only and they should be challenged and reported to the Medical Council if they don't get with the programme.

.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714795#Comment_118714795

Point

Your head

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714250#Comment_118714250

It's very noticeable how many small businesses in retail have been having terrible problems with their debit/credit card machines of late , not of course that I'd be suggesting anything un toward mind you, so to speak 👀👀👀😏

My own GP accepts debit cards with Gusto 😏

My GP practice only started taking cards last year.

Now they've gone to the other extreme - you have to pay at time of booking appointment or they won't book you in!

Sleeper12

It's nothing to do with a tax dodge. If a GP takes cards they will still get more than enough cash for fiddling the books if they are into that.

Card machines cost money. Every transaction the GP has to pay a fee. GP is saving 1000s each year by not taking cards. Medical card payments go directly into the business account

wonski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715313#Comment_118715313

Well you said "The reason companies like tax assist exist is that large amounts of people do not claime the tax back on medical payments."

They must have a receipt to claim anyway so in order for these companies to exist the GP's must have issued the receipts for them.

The 10% of them don't make it viable to scam the revenue.

To be fair I am not sure what your point was so maybe I am stupid.

Fair enough if that's the case.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715494#Comment_118715494

Card machines are cheap. I got a Sumup machine in December for €19 - that was with 20% discount from Sumup. Its absolute peanuts..... (I am a small craft worker and have markets at Christmas). The dogs in the streets have card machines these days. Sumup take an absolute minimal charge, its about 30c on €50. So please give me a break about the poor doctors and their fees on card machines, those days are gone. Its a an excuse for tax evasion pure and simple.

TheRiverman

I use my card every time I go to my GP, no problem, never asked for cash, receipt issued without having to ask. Phone consultation, card every time, receipt emailed to me immediately after card transaction goes through.

Sleeper12

I didn't say anything about poor doctors. I'm saying that Some businesses can save a small fortune by not taking cards. I'm saving over €1k per year in fees. This pays my van insurance, tax and DOE. I'm happy to take cash, cheque, Revolut or regular bank transfer. These work out much cheaper for me than cards. I have nothing against cards. I have several myself.

Most GPs aren't taking on new patients. They could care less if one or two don't come back because they don't take cards. Why pay the fees when you don't have to

My original point is that it's nonsense to suggest that not taking cards is for tax fiddling purposes. Its as easy to fiddle tax even when taking cards

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058235340/doctors-not-taking-debit-cards

tax avoidance

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118716558#Comment_118716558

saving a grand per year ?

many GP clinics take in a grand per day before lunchtime

Gant21

My doctor takes revolut. Super job.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714250#Comment_118714250

Why is this tax dodge crap being raised again on boards.It's like a merry go round.could it be something with card company charges,terminal charges?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118717064#Comment_118717064

Because its quite possibly the answer. Cash handling fees charged by banks, security risk, theft, time required to lodge cash are all reasons why a business would prefer to take electronic payment rather than cash.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118716966#Comment_118716966

That makes absolutely no sense. We get this answer every time a business does not take cards. If a GP took cards they would sill have enough cash clients to fiddle the books if they want to. GPs give genuine receipts for cash or cards. Clients can avail of tax relief on these receipts. Where is the tax avoiding?

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118716966#Comment_118716966

Nothing wrong with tax avoidance. And it wouldn't matter how they are being paid.

Tax avoidance is the legal use of the provisions of the taxation codes to minimise individual or corporate liability to tax. Tax evasion is the deliberate concealment or mis-statement of reportable income or assets and is illegal

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118716432#Comment_118716432

Where there are large amounts of people who don't have any ide for a receipt then they will not be so insistant about asking for one. Your point was that 100% of people ask for receipts which is a nonsense. 100% of people do not do anything

KildareP

I think a lot of it is that old habits die hard.

Cash lodgement fees are often higher than the equivalent value taken electronically plus you need to factor in insurance against robbery or forgery (or be willing to take the full hit if it happens).

Trying to get all GP's onto something as simple as Healthlink and e-mail and away from written scripts and faxes has taken decades.

However this means that there are paper trails, so even if you only take cash, everything runs and gets logged through your practise management software anyway.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715494#Comment_118715494

I really don't think this is the reason as the bank will charge them more for handling their cash when lodging with the bank. The per transaction fee for a debit card payment is very low.

I can't imagine a doctor's business practice is working on strictly cash basis in that it pays all suppliers and staff with cash. They will need money in the bank and therefore would need to lodge the cash therefore incurring the expensive cash handling fees.

On top of that is the the security risk and admin costs as well as somebody having to go to a bank to lodge it.

Any business that does not accept cards is just shortsighted and throwing away money.

SEPT 23 1989

no 1 profession on the revenue defaulters lists

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118718701#Comment_118718701

Here's the thing, Fees for medical cards are paid directly into GPs business account. This is more than enough to run the business throughout the year. Cash gets lodged into a saving account totally free of charge. This can be transferred into the business account to pay taxes at the end of the year. For small business cash has no fees. Revolut is free but cheques, Cards & bank transfer incur costs. For my business & for many single GP practices, Taking payment by card is the most costly & taking cash is the cheapest / free option.

I'm not really trying to argue that cards are more expensive than cash for many small business, although this is the case. My main point is that doctors accepting cards can still fiddle tax on the cash they receive. The automattic reaction on all of these threads is blindly stating that cards aren't accepted because of a tax dodge. This simply isn't true because they can dodge with or without cards.

dxhound2005

I took a look at the Defaulters lists for the first three quarters of 2021, to see if there were a lot of GP's. None, but some Medical Staff / Services providers, and a medical consultant. People need to report the dodgy doctors. There is a form on the Revenue site to do this anonymously.

Part 2 of the lists.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/list-of-defaulters/index.aspx

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714769#Comment_118714769

Thought it was more expensive and hassle to do cash lodgements

Doctors do get selected for audits a fair bit but every business does a fiddle to varying degrees

The bigger businesses just do legal fiddles commonly called avoidance

heretothere

My doctor didn't have a card machine for years. I always refused the receipt on the day and called back in January of the following year for a listing of all my visits for the prior year. So doubt tax evasion was the reason for not having a card machine there. It was annoying though, I'm glad they have one now.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720526#Comment_118720526

I wish people would stop associating tax avoidance with fiddling, just not through. Doing something that does not incur tax, ie avoids it is not a fiddle.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721353#Comment_118721353

Idiot

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720526#Comment_118720526

Tax avoidance is not legal in Ireland either. It is specifically addressed in s.811 (and other sectuons) of the Taxes Consolidation Act.