Got a letter regarding smart meter

ELM327

Not only do they not support the in home monitor, ESB have locked that panel in the meter!

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640405#Comment_119640405

Eventually they might mandate a smart meter, but before then.....they can achieve the same thing by simply making the D/N tariff so exceedingly expensive compared to the smart tariffs that people will just migrate.

Let's face it, if smart tariffs were simply "better" fiscally than D/N we'd all be on them....

irishchris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616555#Comment_119616555

Don't have to go on smart plan but be aware having it removed will mean you are ineligible for any fit payments

ELM327

Yet again, for the millionth time, if you get it removed for an MCC02 day night meter, you are eligible for deemed fit. This is because you havent refused a smart meter, technically you are not eligible for a smart meter under the rollout.

Commoner

Can you opt out of having a smart meter installed?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642401#Comment_119642401

Yes and you should

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642134#Comment_119642134

ESB networks are responsible for Smart Meter installation, they cannot interfere between a provider and a customer by "managing" D/N tariffs in such a manner.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642497#Comment_119642497

I get that slave, but all meters are "owned" by ESB networks. They could simply say we're not supporting that beyond 2025 (or some other date), give suppliers plenty of time/notice to solve their problem(s). Happens all the time in other industries.

Now to be clear, I'm on a D/N meter. I want to remain on a D/N meter, but if the smart meter tariffs were better for solar, I suspect 95%+ of us would migrate en masse.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642512#Comment_119642512

Yes but they are not permitted to implement any changes that would change the tariff between an energy company and an end user. So they cannot remove a day night meter from an MCC02 customer (without their consent to break the supply contract).

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642512#Comment_119642512

Covered in Minister's questions, due to the electro magnetic fields created by the SM they can be permanently refused on those grounds.

I'm on D/N, I'll go deemed and going to wait a few years to see what FIT will eventually stabilise to, the market is upset at the moment so current FIT is not something to base a long term decision on

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642534#Comment_119642534

Ture, but contracts are (in general) 12 months, right? So after 12 months I'm generally "out of contract" with my supplier. Is that not the case?

They've agreed to give me a tariff for a fixed period of time, and if I break the contract from my side, there is that usual €50 breakage fee. Basically while I understand that there are terms and conditions that need to be met, it should be fine to say,

"Hey we're not supporting this after your next 12 months" etc.

Otherwise what does this look like. People will be sitting on D/N meters in 2065 going

"You can feck off right there Mr. ESB man, i've got me rights!"

Doesn't seem plausible does it?

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642553#Comment_119642553

You + me both slave. Pry the D/N from my cold dead hands!

"electro magnetic field created by SM".......hmmm, which minister was wearing the tinfoil hat that day !? :-)

Stovepipe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761040#Comment_118761040

Same happened to a friend of mine recently. The tech (alleged) who fitted it wired it up wrong and his bill soared. ESB blamed the subcontractor, who denied it but photos proved that the tech had put a wire in the wrong place. ESB insisted he pay the overcharged fee so he offered to see them in court and they backed down. In the end, he had to pay half the bill, to make them go away.

OU812

I've just been onto BGE as we're coming to end of contract on a 24hr plan. The new 24hr plan is much more expensive than their smart plan with a much smaller discount. Going to be monitoring usage for the next 24 hours to get an approximation of what to expect, But comparing their rates with my last bill which is heavily discounted.

Current Bill: €239.91

Smart Tariff: €264.63 (this is averaging the consumption & multiplying each rate by the per hour consumption)

New Rate: €692.18

So I think I'll be turning on the smart meter

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642557#Comment_119642557

It's 12 months of fixed discount, but after that the contract is for indefinite duration

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642655#Comment_119642655

I'm not seeing it. I WANT you to be right guys. I have a D/N meter as mentioned and would be quite happy to stay on it, at least until the dust settles

Indefinite contract? Contracts get broken all the time. E.g. 1000's of Panda customers who've had their contract broken by the company leaving the market. Any recourse for them? No of course not. Same here. ESB want all the meters swapped over eventually. For now, as they have way way more meters to swap out than sparks to do the job, they'll quite happily punt the DN down the road, but eventually they'll come looking - and there's (probably) nothing we can do to stop them.

idc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642553#Comment_119642553

Thats fair enough but does that also apply to suppliers - do they have to support non smart tariffs. At the moment obviously yes, but in a few years if most houses do have smart meters could some suppliers decide to only provide smart tariffs. And eventually could only leave Electric ireland as the only supplier who would be required to as they are supplier of last resort.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642796#Comment_119642796

I suspect it will come down to critical mass. Once the unwashed masses are put on smart meters and theres only a few holdouts remaining it may be either a case of leave them at it or alternatively enforced changes. But I dont see it happening for years.

del roy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642604#Comment_119642604

Same with Electric Ireland insisted we pay then they would talk to us, have to say **** conduct from them never once told us about the dodgy meters they took back from everyone, told them to go multiply, not paying a penny until its sorted, engineer came took the metre away, wrote back saying its faulty and they wrote to E.I telling them so.

Rang up E.I for an apology they were not having any of it, supervisor rang back said they listened to phone calls and they handled it ok.

God help older people who can't stand up for themselves dealing with that crowd, from the second we rang they wanted to know how we were going to pay if it was an older person they may just have given them their card details and let them take the cash from their account.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642604#Comment_119642604

How can it be wired up wrong? Surely it's just in and out?

Stovepipe

he showed me a photo of the meter and it had a wire going in, that was meant to be for selling power back to the grid, as I understand it and that wire shouldnt have been secured to the meter. His normal consumption multiplied hugely and he was stung for 6 grand. It sounds like their sales/marketing people have been told to be aggressive with customers. They were quite prepared to throw the installers under a bus and fight their corner, even though they were proved to be wrong.

Citizen Six

That sounds a bit odd. As it shouldn't be wired like that, and wouldn't be the meter installer that would make that mistake.

Any chance you could get the photo so we could have a look and try and work it out?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653030#Comment_119653030

Yeah i'd love to see it, not much to go wrong in the meters, power in, power out.

Although i have seen a bill from a high use customer where every unit on a meter counts for a multiple of units.. Took an age for my head to figure out whats going on there.

Stovepipe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653030#Comment_119653030

that's the point; the meter fitter made the mistake and when my friend complained, the ESB immediately denied all responsibility and blamed the installer's company. My friend is very tech savvy and did a bit of digging and identified the problem. The ESB's attitude was combative and aggressive from the start but he was up for a fight and fought back. They only conceded when it was made clear to them that he'd be quite happy to see them in court, knew what he was talking about and had tooled up his solicitor. The ESB reduced the bill by half. The potential cost of a court case was enough to stop him taking it further but he watches his consumption like a hawk and has always paid on time. Being a good customer was of no value to him. A good point was made on these pages already that old people could easily be intimidated by them if anything went wrong.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653322#Comment_119653322

Was your friend's a commercial account. Was he on a demand rate or was it a standard domestic rate. Was he exporting electricity as well

Stovepipe

No, he's only a domestic user but he has solar panels and was keen to get set up to export back and this new meter was supposed to be the answer to his prayers. Apart from the money involved, it was the aggressive attitude of the ESB from the off, that really ticked him off. It certainly wouldnt encourage me to get a smart meter in.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653336#Comment_119653336

Solar panels should be running back to his main fuse board, I'd have thought. And not be connected straight into the smart meter. The meter should be detecting the flow of current, and whether it's importing or exporting, on the same cable.

Stovepipe

No doubt and I have seen his system in his house and it appears to be as you say, but the problem was the installation of the meter, as before it all happened, his monitored consumption was as regular as clockwork every month and then it, according to the new meter, soared so he checked all of his consumers to see if he'd left a pump running or lights on yet nothing had changed except the meter.

Citizen Six

I could imagine there might be some issue with how the meter was configured.

I haven't looked at mine yet, to compare with my own monitors that are fitted, to check.

del roy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653336#Comment_119653336

I can confirm this, electric Ireland wanted payment straight away even though they could see it was more than our average bill x 24 times going back 10 years, shocking attitude from them, pity old people who would not know what to do

del roy

Lads

Rang up ELECTRIC IRELAND and explained I got a huge bill from them from my smart gas meter I informed them no way do I want an electric smart meter installed due to the way E.I handled my last complaint and she gave me a ref number said no problem you don't have to get one

maybe she purposely did not add .........YET

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949323#Comment_120949323

I didn’t think anyone in Ireland had smart gas meters?

del roy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653322#Comment_119653322

As you say Stovepipe, when we rang up to inquire about how we had a bill 24 times our normal bill ELECTRIC IRELAND put us thru to credit department and they wanted to know how we would pay it and when. I basically told them I won't be paying it until I get to the bottom of things and they said I had to pay next 14 days, told them good luck with that project. Imagine all the old people being intimidated by these f'kers saying but we will cut you off if you don't pay.

del roy

I see this is happening to some people again

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965721#Comment_121965721

I get one every 6 months and just postpone it for another 6 months for my own reasons.

MojoMaker

KN in my neighbourhood this week and while I missed them today they left a note saying "see you Wednesday for meter swap.

The usual question - am I still good to say no? And can this refusal be given verbally to the technician arriving to do the swap? Given it's on my property I assume yes but there may be more to it of course.

But now a second question, should I say no at this point in 2024? I'm on a decent Flogas elec plan with a nice low full-night rate which is locked in until next March.

My fear - correct me if I'm misreading it - is that once that great deal expires and I wish to move elsewhere and hunt down another rolling low night rate, will I be challenged by only being offered smart tariffs (which right now are not great)?

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162705#Comment_122162705

You can't be forced to accept a smart meter AFAIK but if it's not inside the house they can just change it. Ring and cancel it if that's the way you want to go. Everyone is different so you need to do the maths on your usage to see if makes sense in your own case.

cobham

I think they need your consent as it involves disconnection your supply for up to an hour? The meter is rented so they own it.

MojoMaker

I rang Circet on the number provided and it was very straightforward to ask them to skip my house, which they had no problem doing. No fuss or drama and no need to get in touch with ESBN.

headtheball14

Im having the opposite problem, cant get circet to install the Meter.

I got a letter saying they would install meters in estate and ring if you had any problems or didn't want it.

then started getting a load of calls from an unknown number during work. eventually took a call circet wanted to make an appointment to change meter..I said do it whenever suits you don't need access and I don't mind.

Then I get another call from the technician at the appointments time ,can't make it cos he is missing a part as his excuse. No offer to come back , I assumed he would but I think he must get paid by volume and had moved to another estate and didn't want to.come back to do one house

Then nothing, logged a call to say it hadn't happened . now emailed esb networks and they said I need to call the call centre and make an appointment again. for the love of.god just change the Meter, there are no access issues.

It's a total racket to be honest

given up now if they want to send someone to read a Meter every year it's up to them.

graememk

Yes they don't need an appointment, as it's accessible but they do need to cut your power.

So it's preferable to have an appointment rather than just showing up and pulling the power. Someone could be in the middle of work/whatever don't want to be surprised by an avoidable power outage

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162705#Comment_122162705

Should you say no? Depends. If you’ve an EV or a battery and can load shift stuff to night time (dishwasher washing machine…), then export the bulk of the solar – then a smart meter can work well. But you need to some quick maths in excel. See the other thread here on energypal.ie

I did the maths and the backwards spinning meter works out more expensive.

I moved to a 4 hour night rate on the smart meter (Energia Smart EV plan 2am to 6am (not the exact name of it)): ~8c for cheap night rate. ~33c day rate (other 20 hours). No peak rate. ~24c export on FIT. So now I use 2/3s of my juice in the cheap rate and export most the solar.

If I had a backwards spinning meter there’s no cheap rate. I’m paying full rate all the time. Ok, my export gives me that full rate (so it looks good on paper) but I’ve overspending on what I could load shift – that make sense?

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333528#Comment_122333528

If you don't need a smart meter to avail of a plan that saves you money then don't be wrecking your head about it and let them do it if they ever bother to. Or as said earlier if you don't want one tell ESBN to take you off the list.