Newly built social homes sitting idle for over 8 months in Wexford

mary 2021

There is no traveller culture unless you count animal cruelty as an ethnic culture thats all they can seem to do consistently and with relish !! They keep their caravans clean and destroy the environment around them with toxic litter and filth & again steal dogs and breed dogs and sell inbred dogs with loads of health issues. The irish traveller is quite toxic and all the virtue signallers in the world will not change my view of them. There are 3 starving horses near me and every night at 11pm i go down and give them hay from my own horses hay I also bring water they never check them......cruel cruel bast-ardos they dont deserve a house all they do is wreck it and use it for keeping the stolen dogs in !! They should all be sent to the Ukraine to fight that would be a good solution !! send all the prisoners there and give the cells to the refugees.

mary 2021

Traveller culture my hole they never register or passport or micro chip their horses or dogs thats the law and every garda avoids the issue. They are thuigs and bullies and the garda are afraid of them "!

teachinggal123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746704#Comment_118746704

I didn't decide anything. The data and knowledge speaks for itself.

If you agree that culture "encompasses the social behavior and norms found in human societies, as well as the knowledge, beliefs, arts, laws, customs, capabilities, and habits of the individuals in these groups" then yes, criminality is part of traveller culture.

How about culture as "the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group"? Yup, still means criminality is part of traveller culture.

One last one - culture is "in its broadest sense is cultivated behavior; that is the totality of a person's learned, accumulated experience which is socially transmitted, or more briefly, behavior through social learning". Yet again, according to this definition criminality is part of traveller culture.

Is there something you don't understand about this?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746683#Comment_118746683

Which bit of my fairly simple point on equality did you have difficulty understanding?

teachinggal123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746771#Comment_118746771

Read my post above responding to your cartoon on equality.

I'm here if you have any questions on my response.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746340#Comment_118746340

What do you work as?

I am friends with many teachers, travelling children generally have little chance due to their "culture"

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118744535#Comment_118744535

Possibly the most maligned and vulnerable group across Europe and the best you can come up with is anecdotal evidence.

1 in 4 Roma perished in WW2 as a result of persecution and according to all statistics now , in modern day Europe suffer discrimination across political, social, and economic (literacy, income, life span, infant mortality, diet, representation in government, access to health care and legal aid, education, employment) making them the lowest status of any ethnic group in Europe.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746733#Comment_118746733

Gardai are not afraid of them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746758#Comment_118746758

Criminality must also be part of the Irish culture, if that's the case

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746815#Comment_118746815

I'm not outing myself online 🤣

But yes I agree, travellers don't have much chance when they are taken out if school so early. I believe they should be forced to stay until leaving certificate.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746799#Comment_118746799

The only question I have for you is why you jumped to unfounded conclusions about my views and opinions?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746758#Comment_118746758

The thing I don’t understand about your point of view is why you think you haven’t decided anything when it’s patently obvious you have decided that you will associate criminality with traveller culture. You’re cherry picking data, that’s not nearly the same thing as the data speaking for itself when it’s your own very specific interpretation of what data on traveller culture is available.

But fair enough you don’t teach traveller children, and there are many more reasons for that too that have nothing to do with traveller culture and everything to do with discrimination based upon prejudice, but, even leaving that much aside, I think it’s being unfair to you to assume you’d actually allow your personal opinions of travellers to influence your professional behaviour. I’m guessing you don’t teach children that criminality is an aspect of traveller culture, and the knowledge of traveller culture you impart to the children is more along the lines of this kind of thing -

Cultural values and traditions

Nomadism has been described as a core value of Traveller culture. This does not necessarily imply the intention to keep travelling but rather as Michael McDonagh, a Navan Traveller, says, "nomadism entails a way of looking at the world, a different way of perceiving things, a different attitude to accommodation, to work and to life in general." Just as settled people remain settled people even when they travel, Travellers remain Travellers even when they are not travelling. Maintaining family ties and linking with the extended family are central to the Traveller way of life, and their lives are organised around this. The Traveller’s very identity requires "keeping in touch," and this in turn requires travel.

Traveller culture also includes a tradition of self-employment, occupational flexibility, and economic adaptation. A strong faith and distinctive customs around death and marriage are an important part of Traveller life. There has been an oral transmission of culture from generation to generation, and Travellers have also played a significant role as bearers of the wider culture. Travellers’ story-telling, singing and music tradition are distinctive and worthy of note.

Language

Travellers have a language of their own. The academic name for the language is Shelta; Travellers call it Gammon or Cant. This language is known not only to Irish Travellers born here and in Britain but also by the descendants of Irish Travellers who emigrated to America before the Great Famine.

Distinct and different

Because of Travellers’ common ancestry, cultural values, and other aspects of their life-style, Travellers are seen by themselves and others as distinct and different. Like Travellers and Gypsies all over the world, their relationship with settled society shows a pattern of discrimination and exclusion.

https://assets.gov.ie/24938/f90751a700764029ac8d6cb02085ea6f.pdf

teachinggal123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746865#Comment_118746865

How did you make that jump?

The prison population consists of something like 10% traveller men and 25% traveller women. That would would strongly support my view that criminality is part of traveller culture.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747072#Comment_118747072

Would it? By that standard there must be 90% settled men and 75% settled women in prison.

That would strongly support the view that criminality is part of Irish culture.

mary 2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746857#Comment_118746857

Well then why dont they enforce the laws on them i have to micro chip my stock & my dogs? They can stop sulky racing on the spot if they scan the horse & see no registrastion chip on the horse? Thats the law but the mob rules and the garda just eat the donuts in the squad car i have seen it for my self. Coursing on my neighbours land and the lurchers are there unchipped no garda will even go near the lurchers. Why not, tell me i am keen to know is is not fear?

teachinggal123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746939#Comment_118746939

Thanks for that ... very informative.

However, also very outdated. That may be the culture amongst older members of the traveller population, but the vast majority of the younger generations cannot speak much more than a few words of Shelta. The old cultures are quite quickly being replaced by newer cultural beliefs and practices. I find most of these new cultural practices repugnant (especially the ones against women and education). There is no arguing that this is now traveller culture, and that the more traditional traveller culture is being replaced by something different.

This really can't be argued ... unless we can agree on some other definition of culture that suits a particular narrative. if we use any of the accepted definitions of culture in the social sciences then I am correct in what I am saying.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747082#Comment_118747082

Are the gardai sitting in their cars eating donuts while watching lurchers on your neighbours land?

If you want gardai to do something about something illegal, then make a report.

teachinggal123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747076#Comment_118747076

Travellers make up 0.6% of the Irish population and 10% male / 25% female of the Irish prison population.

Do the math ... the figures speak for themselves.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747097#Comment_118747097

Do they? Perhaps they just can't afford good legal defence? Maybe that's why they are represented more?

No matter what you do to try and justify your prejudices, it won't work. But like I said, you're not the only one, it's perfectly acceptable in Ireland

teachinggal123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747102#Comment_118747102

"Perhaps they just can't afford good legal defence?" Seriously??? Absolute rubbish!! Do you have any idea how the Irish legal system and free legal aid works? Are you seriously trying to say there is the same level of criminality in the traveller and non-traveller population in Ireland?????

If you can point me to any evidence - anything at all - that supports your claim that travellers get poor legal representation then I will concede the point and admit that I'm prejudiced.

If not, I'll put my faith in the science and the huge body of research on traveller culture and traveller criminality. I'll also put my faith in my own professional experiences of working with traveller children and young women (which I doubt you have btw).

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118742435#Comment_118742435

Touché 😁

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747090#Comment_118747090

Well yeah, the document is about 20 years old, which is why I said what you’d be teaching children now about traveller culture would be along those lines, as opposed to teaching children your own personal belief that criminality is an aspect of traveller culture.

It’s easily arguable, precisely for the reason you state - we don’t agree on what constitutes traveller culture. That’s why I figure it would be best to refer to something objective. Again it’s a narrative you don’t agree with, but the point is that as a teacher you were probably aware of it already, and you were cherry picking what you personally do and don’t associate with travellers.

That’s why I said it was unfair to you to assume you’d teach children that criminality is an aspect of traveller culture. The idea that you would teach children that criminality is an aspect of traveller culture is hardly complimentary of your intellectual capacity.

mary 2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747091#Comment_118747091

Gardai dont take animal welfare seriously at all.!! I have reported many incidents i have come across and nothing was done NADA I have even gone to the dept of agriculture about starving horses, couldnt give a toss !

teachinggal123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747135#Comment_118747135

I teach my students the skills they need to put their faith in facts and science, and to be able to interpret the data in a fair and ethically appropriate manner. I teach them to recognise poor research and people who have nothing to back up their uninformed and ignorant beliefs.

These skills are sorely lacking from some posters on this thread.

Like these hard facts https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/disproportionate-number-of-travellers-in-prison-population-1.3263524 and these https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-have-negative-view-of-travellers-survey-finds-1.4334274

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747120#Comment_118747120

I'm a very well aware of how the legal system works, thank you. Probably better then you.

Travellers get free legal aid, usually. Free legal aid means that you get the solicitor that is doing the free legal aid work in the court they are appearing.

Anyone who can afford to pay for their own legal defence, get to choose which solicitor they like, and can get that solicitor to instruct a barrister, if they are happy to pay for it.

And, FYI, I have never stated that there is no issue with criminality in the traveller community, it is not however, part of traveller culture.

And no, I don't 'work' with children or women travellers, but I do indeed have many years of experience with them through my work.b

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747171#Comment_118747171

I don’t doubt it for a minute that you’re an excellent teacher. I’m not arguing with your ability to impart knowledge and teach children the critical skills they need to analyse media and conduct research and all that good stuff. I’m making the point that you wouldn’t be teaching children that criminality is an aspect of traveller culture, because that would be stupid, and you don’t strike me as being in any way stupid, just prejudiced against travellers, but, like I said - it’s incredibly unlikely and unfair to you to assume you’d allow your personal beliefs to influence your professional behaviour.

You do realise that linking a survey that shows gardai are just as prejudice as everyone else in society.

Like I said, you're not the only one, it's completely tolerated in Ireland

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747097#Comment_118747097

Did you read the earlier posts about the negative attitudes of all Gardai towards travellers?

What percentage of the Irish prison population is made up of people from Dublin 1?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747082#Comment_118747082

How many people are convicted for having unregistered dogs?

mary 2021

its nt about the convictions its about them being able to ignore the rules and me having to obey them. A dog warden can scan my dog and i can be fined but never them .....