Are we heading for a fuel shortage?

claw50

I ordered 800 litres kerosene with Naughtons (Annacotty Limerick ) on Fri 28th Feb (customer for over 11years) payment taken immediately & given delivery date of 5th Mar. All good until I got a call on 5th informing me I am no longer getting what I ordered & instead they would delivery 691 litres for same price. Appalled & disgusted at the way we are being treated. The only alternative being offered is a full refund as “they are unable to provide the service I paid for. Yet they are still supplying kerosene. I WILL NEVER USE OR RECOMMEND THIS COMPANY AGAIN…..

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118736625#Comment_118736625

What did he say that was false?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739708#Comment_118739708

That's some serious "in your face" gouging...... or to use a word from the Celtic tiger days....." gazumping". So they actually took payment on 28th Feb & then decided to keep 109ltrs of what was technically " your" oil??? Definitely DON'T go near them again

It'll be interesting to see if government will plough ahead with the next round of 'green/ Greta t' taxes on 1st may....i think 2.5% is their next bonanza..... some would say they can't possibly drive on with yet another hike/ tax but I'd put nothing past this threesome

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735720#Comment_118735720

You're forgetting that climate change is a slow process, but for the last few decades it took speed. We currently are living unsustainable way so a planet is in danger. What you're saying is basically, ignore the problems we are creating now which will affect our children's life in future. But we need to act now, not to ignore and hope for the best leaving a bunch of problems for children. Sounds selfish and not well informed. We need to look forward and plan ahead, not just enjoy the goodies today and leave exhausted planet for future generations.

vegandinner

Hopefully they use all the extra tax to subsidise public transport, electric vehicles and charge points, need to break our over dependence on imported fuel

MakersMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739895#Comment_118739895

More likely to go on forever dole payment to long term layabouts unfortunately, rather than to the people who pay their way.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739923#Comment_118739923

This is what will happen, another Christmas bonus or something like that.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739708#Comment_118739708

You're reacting too much emotional and irrational, putting your own needs in front without an understanding of the context. Their supply price changed and they need to increase your price too. Prices change drastically now. Better be happy they aren't increasing faster as in Russia nowadays where anything can cost more just within hours, not even days. Normally, if not the global crude oil price unpredictable increases, you'd be right, but not this time. Arguing for that when there's a war in the same continent is disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739752#Comment_118739752

You're thinking it wrong. They most likely didn't have the end product in their tanks. Once received from a supplier, it was much more expensive. They are for profit, not charity, so they decided to follow the pattern and increase price. I'm sure there should be something in their T&C that a price may be adjusted before a delivery date. He even got a call and options! What else do you want? Company to use their own resources to please a client who will expect next time this to be done again? Fuel price will now go up constantly. They just need to amend their website to say something like 'estimated price with deposit' or similar. This would suggest that price change too rapid to give a total guaranteed price. Petrol stations are changing prices daily, some even twice a day and here we are talking about 5 days gap. it isn't hit oil yet as it hasn't been delivered yet, only a payment happened which secures a delivery (not a price). Guys, you're forgetting that when crude oil price is so unpredictable, you literally can't expect paying for fuel and getting it with same conditions after 5 days! That's not how fuel prices work.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739998#Comment_118739998

What claptrap!!!! Do you even believe your own drivel as you're typing????? If I phone the Ford dealership on the 28th of the Month and order a new modeo & I lay my €€€ down ....then the salesman says ' shell be ready on the 5th". I go around to the garage on the 5th & he says " well.....im not giving you a Mondeo...im giving you a focus instead....or says he wants 3K more". Do NOT INSULT me with your " thinking it wrong" malarkey....... that IS the Oxford dictionary definition of GOUGING, plain & simple

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118740042#Comment_118740042

Firstly calm down, you're way too hot, just chill as emotions don't let you think logically and read properly.

Secondly, you're comparing completely different products. Car price don't change daily. Crude oil does, similar to gold, let say. When there's a little change in prices, company is ok to absorb price increase suffering profit or covers the loss by not adjusting price in case of a price decrease. However, when price has jumped by 20 dollar for a barrel in just a week time while this same happened only last year but in 6 months time, we are now in a very different game.

Supply/demand has been disrupted by covid which made an impact to prices. Now, war in Ukraine brought uncertainty and panic to the stock markets which lead to drastic price increases.

You may see some car manufacturers increasing prices as they move their factories from Ukraine, e.g., BMW. But car industry is different and price structure is very different. Car parts' prices currently don't change daily. Oil price does.

Here you go, that's the basics from the oil industry. You're welcome.

I got a feeling you're just trolling....otherwise the OP's post went miles over your head......when the OP rang his supplier he agreed a price / quantity.....he even PAID FOR IT there and then. Now, the supplier is crazy busy & can't get a truck around for a few days........if the price has increased in the intervening few days that's NOT an issue/ bill to be placed at the OP'S door. What the supplier is doing here is blatant gouging. The guy that phoned in on the 5th March & got a bigger bill ....thats business/ reality. Again, if you can't understand these v basic microeconomic fundamentals I must assume you're trolling

road_high

I think we are into a time that’ll be “essential journeys” only. Trips out the country or to the beach will have to be rationed for many of us. Price of petrol/diesel is in insane territory now. And it wasn’t exactly cheap going into this. I’ll be walking more for sure or getting on public transport.

While the car is essential for most of us, I can see sales levels of fuel dropping at this level - elasticity of demand (?) from my college days.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118740105#Comment_118740105

I get that he agreed the price. Need to read T&C if a supplier has a right to recalculate the price or give other options (which they did). In such circumstances in oil industry it's not very unusual to recalculate price. Many people don't read T&C, they think that agreed price is 100% guaranteed while actually there are certain situations (such as we have now) when price is not guaranteed. In normal situation with more stable global price, agreed price wouldn't change to the customer as the supplier would absorb the difference which normally is insignificant. Now they can't do that as price changes are going way too high and too sudden.

Company must have a big demand, people are afraid of even higher prices so filling their stock, possibly shorter supply of product is due to same and maybe even driver shortage (covid not over yet). Some of these factors are outside of the company's control. And they delay delivery and increase price.

Not even trying to be trolling. I wouldn't waste my time for that. I simply try to explain how pricing in this industry works.

What exactly you're calling microeconomic fundamentals here? I only see customer is adamant he's right.

I assume he hasn't read T&C which should cover these circumstances. Otherwise we would be discussing about the company's T&C already.

harr

Was speaking to local garage owner this morning. Trying his best to keep price as low as possible as it’s a local station. He normally gets a delivery once a week and price was low till he got his delivery on Friday then it jumped to near 1.90 ..

Now his supplier won’t let him order a full delivery to fill his tanks at current price and needs to order smaller loads 2 or 3 over the week .. this in turn will result in near daily increases. He was hoping to fill his tanks so he could keep price under the 1.90 for the week.

Fuel company told him stock is getting low because an expected delivery into Ireland is late or didn’t materialise at all so delivery are to be curtailed for a few weeks.

mikeecho

I don't know how many tankers usually arrive to Whitegate refinery on a weekly basis, but there was two there yesterday, another one has just arrived, and there is a second anchored off Roberts Cove, waiting to dock at the refinery.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739752#Comment_118739752

They don't take payment - they simply put a hold on an amount until delivery and then process the exact amount. When ordering oil it's always a Quote and not an agreed price. It's nothing new to the current situation.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118742363#Comment_118742363

Maybe so, but whenever I've ordered oil, I always got exactly what I paid for at the price agreed, even if it went up in the meantime

I was working nights when Russia crossed into the Ukraine, I immediately ordered oil at 94¢ online, when the office opened, they upped the price to 96¢, and by delivery it was 112¢.

I paid 94¢/l .. even though it had gone up by 18¢ .

You're probably right, it's buried in the T&C's .. but it's good customer service to honour your stated price... Then again, what about distance selling, and all those regulations.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118742363#Comment_118742363

Nonsense they DO TAKE PAYMENT straight away...... last two time I filled up payment taken immediately.....though the tanker mighty 'draw on' for another few days or until Jim ( local driver...same guy since I built this house in 1999) is around the area.

Refer back to the OP comment ( #54 of the tread)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118742511#Comment_118742511

I've had a couple occasions over the years where the price per ltr had DROPPED between me ordering/ paying & the tank being filled..... I certainly didn't get a rebate or a few extra ltrs

Larbre34

It's a whole new ballgame now.

If you can get home heating oil, at any price, fill up, ration your heating and put a lock on your tanks.

Because, by next Autumn, you may get a ration of little, or not get any at all.

Those of us on mains gas supplies will be little better off, because the pipelines will be throttled, in favour of hospitals and vital industries.

You're free to continue behaving like Karens of course, but in a years time, you'll find it breathtaking that you were ever so naive, when you get 2 hours of home heating a day, 2 hours of Internet, queues for basic foods, maybe 30 miles a week of private car travel, schooling taking place outdoors to maximise the daylight, with pens and paper. Consumer services and modern conveniences drastically scaled back or gone forever. Tourism ended. Professional sport reduced to one simple competition per code, if they're lucky. Probably nightime curfews also, to cope with the upsurge in crime connected to the loss of non-essential jobs and runaway prices and scarcity.

The pandemic will look like picnic time at the petting zoo. Better get used to the idea.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118742884#Comment_118742884

Cheer up, might not happen.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118742884#Comment_118742884

So..... I'm guessing , you're a glass half full kinda guy :D

Subzero3

Time to start planting lettuce on the window sill. Any bikes for sale.

bazz26

road_high

We’ll be alright. Not heading for mad max territory. Still plenty of resources and wealth in the world. Life will go on and things will level off. As they’ve always done. Humans innovate and adapt

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118743052#Comment_118743052

I’d imagine in the above scenario lettuce seed will be impossible to find and bikes completely unavailable!

Subzero3

A certain sector will be on the look out for home heating oil..now thats its a valuable commodity, theft's will ramp up. Be vigilant!

Shank Williams

Buy wool jumpers and thermals - easy

BorneTobyWilde

Does Ireland actually refine it's own fuel from crude oil to fuels???? Or do we buy in ready to use diesel, petrol, heating oil ect

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118743177#Comment_118743177

Whitegate refinery in cork... Does exactly what it says on the tin.

Now owned by Irving oil, a Canadian company.

Stuff coming into Foynes or Dublin port is finished product.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118743277#Comment_118743277

And where does this finished product come from ?

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118743306#Comment_118743306

Milford Haven in Wales as far as I know, they also ship to Galway.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118743306#Comment_118743306

Looking at marine radar, mainly from Europe and UK.

But some of the unrefined oil to Whitegate would have come from all over the world.. including Russia.

But I imagine those russian ships, or ships with Russian oil/fuel will be refused, just as the ESB plant at moneypoint is refusing a shipment of Russian coal, even though it's not coming on a Russian ship.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118743318#Comment_118743318

Atlantic Dawn

Russian oil due in Dublin at noon on Wednesday...

https://www.dublinport.ie/information-centre/next-100-arrivals/

Ubbquittious

Prices were going up long before Russia.

Sitting somewhere at a long table underground in Geneva or Monaco or some such place there's a bunch of politicians and billionaires watching their plans come to fruition.

"Look at all those stupid ordinary people with their silly ordinary houses, bending over backwards to their arsehole employers for a couple of quid to stay warm and keep their sh1tty cars on the road"

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118743381#Comment_118743381

https://www.boards.ie/categories/conspiracy-theories

BorneTobyWilde

So what exactly is stopping me from importing 20,000L of diesel from Venezuela?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118743396#Comment_118743396

He is correct that prices were going up long before this. Cutting back on exploration, post lock down demand, continually closing of power plants before alternatives are in place etc etc

mikeecho

Probably because it's not low sulfur, and the cheap fuel is only for residents.

You'll also have to buy a container, pay shipping fees, port fees, and final transport costs, along with duty and vat

Nothing stopping you, but it will end up costing a lot more than going to the local station.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118743442#Comment_118743442

Wasn’t there some (many I’m sure) issues in America when Biden came into power- some big pipeline was stopped, kerbs on or stopping of fracking. Not blaming him as I’m no trump but prices have been rising since then- appreciate there are lots of other factors too

CuriosityKilledtheCat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739708#Comment_118739708

Different story here with my local supplier (Texoil). I rang delivery guy direct and ordered but did not prepay - was 92c on the day. I said there was no hurry, get to me when he can. Few days later and I'm watching prices climbing daily and getting a bit pi**ed off. Anyhow, he arrived, I asked how much a litre is it today - 104c he says and follows up by saying you ordered last Thurs and I have you locked in at that price. I have bought off him for years and was chuffed to see loyalty being rewarded😀

road_high

Biggest issue I can see is this big mania rush away from carbon- before solid alternatives have been put in place. Real cart before the horse stupidity that’s now really effecting ordinary people’s standard of living. The green idiots we have here are defined by this. Endless anti carbon cult dogma with airy fairy aspirations in place as “alternatives”. Meanwhile we are taxed into oblivion.

It’s quite probable our peat bogs may have to be re worked to make up any likely shortfall. All a big social inspired world is about to end catastrophe pandering to that Gretta loon with no thought for the actual consequences

road_high

I think we are at 40% of our requirements in electricity now from wind

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118743448#Comment_118743448

Fill ISO tank with diesel, 20000L - 160 EURO, ship to Ireland, 1500 EURO , pay fuel duty and VAT 15K

16650 FOR 20,000L

SO 0.83 on the road

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118743510#Comment_118743510

160 euro for 20,000 L refined diesel? Surely something a bit off here!?

Viscount Aggro

What will happen at 250c per litre.

Will we see less traffic.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118743531#Comment_118743531

THat's Venezuela for ya . But I was off 20,000L is 0.022 per litre at the pump, so it's 440, not 160