DAA got their wish

Larbre34

Given there is no pending public transport improvements to access the Airport, the same number of private cars will keep arriving to drop off passengers, except now they will be sent to a remote site and a tsunami of diesel bus journeys will be required to bring those passengers the rest of the way!

And so, in no way can this flagrant money grab be attributed to so-called sustainability measures, and in these inflationary times is just another burden on hard pressed consumers.

I have already been in touch with contacts in FF and FG on this matter today, and while I asked them to look urgently at public transport improvements too, I'm confident that this unilateral DAA action to attempt to charge for dropping off will be rightly killed in the crib by intervention at Government level, so don't worry about it just yet.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118752302#Comment_118752302

Because everyone using the airport pays in some way for services there they’ll never need. I’ve never set foot in a prayer room, church or other religious facilities there but you can be sure that I’ve contributed to their upkeep.

never had to go to the medical center but….same principle.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118752840#Comment_118752840

Any chance you'd give oul Vlad P a call when you get a chance and see if you can put him right on the oul Ukraine thing?

DAA have gotten planning permission from Fingal for this scheme. Surely you wouldn't be suggesting that Government should directly intervene in the statutory planning process?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118752295#Comment_118752295

Yes, it should definitely help to solve this problem too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118752432#Comment_118752432

Just in case anyone is confused, you will still be able to drop off people at the airport, and you will still be able to travel by Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann, Aircoach and others if pre-Covid services get back to normal. It's not going to be compulsory to cycle to the airport.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118752856#Comment_118752856

There's a difference between an essential service like the medical centre and an optional service like the church or prayer room. Basically, they should be charging for optional services and not charging for essential services.

Maybe I should claim that I need to use the lounge and I always used to be able use the lounge so I should continue to get lounge services now, just because I think I'm entitled?

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118749457#Comment_118749457

If they wanted to do something about sustainability they'd close the whole f*cking thing down

BailMeOut

Cork Airport did it and nobody complained and does seem quite normal at a lot of airports around the world.

Where Luton leads, Dublin follows.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753827#Comment_118753827

Great move for tourism not to mention business travel.

Please come and open a branch in Dublin Mr/Ms International Investor but you'll have to use Belfast Airport because we closed our own.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753693#Comment_118753693

No, I'm not suggesting that the Government interfere in the Planning process.

I'm suggesting that as the setters of policy in the State and indeed the providers of life-support to the DAA in recent years, that the Government interfere in the semi-state DAA board's decision making process and instruct them to terminate the project immediately.

The planning permission would just then wither in five years anyway.

It is amusing that Eamon Ryan will be the one to have to deliver the news, but let's be honest, even he, on his best day, could not make a coherent argument for this being a sustainability policy.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753913#Comment_118753913

There will be no tourism or business travel after the carbon footprint induced apocalypse anyway. U have to make some sacrifices to save the world.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753959#Comment_118753959

That will be news to all those new hotels in Dublin not to mention the IDA.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753972#Comment_118753972

Dem silly humans will be playing the economy game until the last man keels over

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753984#Comment_118753984

Good luck getting anyone to buy what you're selling.

vandriver

I'm not a conspiracy theorist,but as a taxi driver who's at the airport sometimes multiple times per day,I've noticed that the airport police have stopped enforcing the no waiting rule at T1 departures and T2 .

Handy to show Fingal CC the unsustainability of the current situation,that they allowed to happen by not enforcing the current rules.

Larbre34

Make sure to document that with pictures.

road_high

Post Covid looking for ways to claw back revenue (an airport is a money making machine make no mistake) - this was a handy obvious one. Probably planned for years but now seemed opportune.

Imagine they’ll have all non stopping/pulling up zones controlled by camera and fines (like at East Midlands) with this to eliminate fee dodgers and force you to use it

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118753942#Comment_118753942

Sounds like the same thing really, reversing a previously approved planning development. But I guess that’s okay when it suits your agenda.

fryup

Shannon airport you're allowed 15min free parking to let people off or collect - not going to happen in Dublin Airport?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118754700#Comment_118754700

It isn't though, is it? It's a policy change.

No entity, public or private, is obliged to go through with a planning application once it has been granted permission. Permissions lapse all the time for financial, strategic and operational reasons all across Ireland. Its not an interference with the process in any way.

And I very much hope it is the Government's agenda not to see consumers gouged in a wholly unnecessary fashion, in the same way they are acting (belatedly) to cap public hospital parking charges and to make them free for certain patient categories.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the DAA will be rolled back from this course of action, voluntarily or not.

Personally I think this is a brilliant idea.

Would be great if they did similar at bus and train stations around the country.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118749419#Comment_118749419

From the red carpark? It's frequently taken me 30-40mins between T2 and car. So long in fact I'd have been quicker walking.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755014#Comment_118755014

This isn’t a case of permission lapsing though. This is a case of you seeking direct political interference in an approved planning development. It’s a strange tactic for one who is passionate about the sanctity of the legal planning process in other developments.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755020#Comment_118755020

Why do you think there should be a charge to pick up/drop off at railway stations?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755162#Comment_118755162

The political responsibility for DAA resides with the Minister for Transport.

Ministers can and do exercise their function under the constitution and override decisions of management in State owned bodies.

The decision by DAA could be stalled or abandoned altogether with no implications for the planning process.

MrMusician18

I had a quick look at the planning application and the proposed development is full of holes tbh. The small road down by Alsaa behind the Maldron hotel is clearly going to become the new free waiting area. Access to Circle K and McDonalds has to be maintained so a route to the airport off the naul road will be kept open. Any time there is Mass at the airport church, you'd expect special arrangements will have to be made.

Interestingly, the reports in the PA doesn't conclude that journey times through the airport will be improved. There is also a new long term carpark proposed for outside T2 - I imagine some kind of premium option.

Only one person objected to the planning application. I guess this one conveniently flew under the radar.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756348#Comment_118756348

You can only complain on basis of bad planning element. Cost of access which should be free is not something for consideration by planning authorities.

The last planning application was struck down due to space and safety concerns at the red car park.

Dublin Airport can build any folly they want on site so long as it complies with planning regulations.

This is a topic for the MInister who should be telling the DAA management they will be fired if they try to implement it but they wont.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755894#Comment_118755894

And there was me thinking that we set up independent statutory bodies with statutory powers to take political influence out of such things. When has the Minister ever overridden an operational decision like this?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756558#Comment_118756558

Off the top of my head, graduated tolling on the M50. TII were intent on it, Government stomped on it.

On a much smaller scale, OPW were doing a nice little solo run on permanently shutting the minor gates into the Phoenix Park in Summer '20, the Minister of State changed it overnight.

You can call it interference if you like, but the Government is comprised of what are above all, public representatives. We elect them to act in the best interests of the people and the majority view.

Even to expand on that, Public bodies and State agencies are up in front of Oireachtas Committees every day of the week to get their heads straightened over poor policy and bad operational decisions. The HSE, the Gardaí, Irish Water, NTA etc etc; where would we be if some of these ivory tower dwellers didn't get a dose of reality injected into them periodically by those we elect to do just that.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756712#Comment_118756712

Fair response, though I'm not sure the M50 tolling is comparable. The CEO said at the Oireachtas that it was a matter for Government. Government makes policy, state bodies implement policy.

The Phoenix Park example is interesting, and indeed, I wondered at the time what would have happened if the OPW had the cojones to say 'No Minister'. Do we really want Ministers with no professional expertise interfering in operational matters? If there was a clear policy statement one way or other, then so be it. But that certainly wasn't the case with the Phoenix Park, and it is not the case here.

The Oireachtas committees are a bit of theatre. It's all about what TD can get themselves on the Six O'Clock News with a smart question. It's not really a governance process.

KLF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756348#Comment_118756348

Spot on, I knew the barriers would have to be quite close to the terminals and they are where you'd expect them, on the incline to either T2 or T1. The Corballis park junction is anoter handy one to hop out, it's a short walk to T2, a bit longer to T1.

http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00715861.pdf

For T1 it looks like you can turn right into the short-term car park without being scanned, couldn't you just follow the road and exit as normal?

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118752432#Comment_118752432

The post I was responding to was about doing the school run, not going to the airport. Different situations.

That said, I'd personally have no problem cycling to the airport with my luggage if I needed to. I cycle to the airport frequently enough, and I have no problem carrying luggage if I needed to. I probably wouldn't want to leave my bike at the airport though.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756558#Comment_118756558

It happens, sometimes publicly, more often behind closed doors.

Here's a funny one with another Transport Minister from 20 years ago.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-10079332.html

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758447#Comment_118758447

Did you read the article? He asked them. not told them. They could have said no.

Minister Brennan has asked Dublin City Council to go back to the drawing board.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758598#Comment_118758598

Of course I read the article, you don't think I'm some joker that would post a link without checking it's content do you?

What actually happened was Minister threw toys out of pram DCC backed down.

Public Administration 101, if you get your way let the other guy save a bit of face.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758649#Comment_118758649

Yes, they backed down. But they could have said no.

The Minister can't direct a local authority like that.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758776#Comment_118758776

Yes, it would be very brave of a Minister to direct a public official and extremely brave of a public official to say no to a minister.

End result Minister gets his/her way and everyone's happy.

MAULBROOK

bmc58

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118747530#Comment_118747530

in Clonmel we have a similar system in one of our main town car parks but you get 20 mns free.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758912#Comment_118758912

Yes, it's easy enough to just set it up for the required time.

donegal_man

Nobody is going to be flying anywhere for a long time anyway when the whole of Europe teeters on the brink of food rationing and a decades long war.

Happy Sunday everyone.

Atlantic Dawn

What will the charge be, UK airports that charge seem to be £5, would Dublin go with an even €7.50?

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778143#Comment_118778143

£7 at Stansted but London is always very expensive for transport.

Its €3 to park in the multi story for 30 mins or an hour (can’t remember which.) So I’d imagine the drop off would be the same price? I know your paying for the convenience but your only there for a few minutes.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778720#Comment_118778720

Yes how it will actually be handled regarding payment will be interesting, if it's prepay it should work as ANPR reading the plate and opening the barrier. If it's also post pay, legislation would be required similar to M50 toll road where arrears could be legally chased through the courts.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778810#Comment_118778810

Yeah I remember I went through one in Scotland and you got your ticket going in and when you were leaving you just put your ticket in and tapped your card. Very handy eliminating the need for a ticket machine and leaving your vehicle etc.

Larbre34

Worry not lads. The DAA are getting the old arm around the shoulder on this matter. There won't be any system to charge for dropping off and picking up. I have it from the horses mouth. It will be quietly dropped in the next while.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118779694#Comment_118779694

Hopefully, when they factor in the costs of implementing, up keeping and staffing such a system, yes it’s automated but maintenance, parts, the overseeing of it added to the number of people they are pissing off in the process… I’d make up my mind to save that €€€ between gifts, food and beverages I won’t spend there.."just have one airport police or suitably qualified designee moving people on….

if I’m getting a lift when I land and get to the gate I text my lift if I’m not getting a taxi…that time they need to get to the airport and me get out with bags is usually five minutes either side of each other…

problem is when Gerry and Martina arrive at 18.00 or are due to and their lift just gets there for 18.00 waiting there half an hour.. could be any sort of a delay.

zg3409

I presume the real intention is to encourage those picking up to go to the short term car park, and pay there.

Many chose drop off as it's free, if it was free for first 20 minutes, then 10 euro per 15 minutes the drop off would get very quiet quickly. Many people including taxis hang around the petrol station and macdonald's waiting to collect people from the drop off area. It works out quicker, free and closer than short term car park presently.

Even an automatic fine/ exit fee, for overstay would quickly keep the area free. Read the car registration on entry and open the barrier if under 15 minutes, else direct them to pay queue.

The current drop off area in T2 is massive, bit I am sure it gets blocked at peak times.

mikeecho

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0405/1290607-plan-for-paid-drop-off-at-dublin-airport-faces-appeal/

Plan for paid drop-off at Dublin Airport faces appeal

Updated / Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 17:57

elperello

Tone deaf there from the DAA spokesman -

Last month, Mr Cullinane outlined the rationale behind the new tolling system.

"The new system aims to reduce car journeys to and from the airport and to encourage passengers to make greater use of public transport," he said.

Someone should ask him how he gets to work.

davetherave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118885591#Comment_118885591

Off you go then.

Kevin Cullinane, Interim Group Head of Communications, daa Kevin.Cullinane@daa.ie

https://www.daa.ie/media-centre/media-contacts/