Six Nations 2022 - England v Ireland, 12/03/22, KO 4.45pm - RTÉ2, RTÉ Player, ITV1, ITV Hub

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777245#Comment_118777245

If a loose head is scrummaging on your neck rather than your shoulder there isn't much you can do either legally or illegally. It is downright dangerous and Raynal should be rightly criticised for his ineptitude in the matter.

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777262#Comment_118777262

If the other flanker had been alert he would have been on VDF's shoulder when he carried forward. Too often he ended up without support and then had to scramble to protect the ball. We then lost fast ruck ball.

TRC10

If Josh van der Flier is too light, I want all my back rowers to be too light!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778070#Comment_118778070

You're not reading it wrong, Henderson had his hands on the ball, was lifting it for the turnover, player on the ground held on, Henderson got rucked off the ball - referee should have blown for a turnover Ireland. Henderson clearly went back to slow the ball down on the deck, his hand was there - English 9 made a show and tell of it - penalty. Henderson made it easy for them - it was a foolish thing to do in that position and the ruck was already slowed down.

Interested Observer

Henderson should have been nowhere near that ball on the floor. Whatever happened before, whatever about the 9 buying the penalty, he handled it on the ground right in front of the ref.

Pale Caucasian

.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777581#Comment_118777581

Yes. He will show his colours at later date by backing certain players and you will see it then. Wait around 6 months.

Clegg

Rewatched the game. We were definitely guilty of throwing too many speculative offloads, but that game plan was the right way to go. We constantly got in behind the English defence. The final offload or pass was missing too often, but that's a problem with execution more than anything else. That's not just on the thrower, but also the receiver.

A moment in the 69th minute sticks out for me above all others. Doris ran a lovely short line and busted through two England tacklers. Murray was running in support but I think he was always a bit too flat to be in a realistic position to receive. It's not a huge error, but a small enough one which leads to a knock on when it could easily have been a try under the posts.

It's the sort of things which Schmidt hated above all else. Throwing away possession when you didn't need to. But his philosophy meant you very rarely made any sort of offload. Which led to to stultifying play of 2019 when everything was rote and without imagination. Under Farrell we'd rather try the harder pass or offload to get around a defence.

Pale Caucasian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777702#Comment_118777702

Oh you’re one of those. The thug who clings on the people from expensive schools. Is that you Mal?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778243#Comment_118778243

Knock this rubbish on the head if you want to keep posting here.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778070#Comment_118778070

Yeah I think so..

Edit.. no wait, I'm thinking of something else

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778138#Comment_118778138

Thought he looked quite sharp to be honest. His passing was fast, flat and crisp and I can't remember too many occasions where he was slow getting to the ruck

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778345#Comment_118778345

It wasn’t even that IMO. As good as JGP was, we needed a more controlled figure at 9 just to settle things down and he did so excellently.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778138#Comment_118778138

Murray was the perfect player to bring on yesterday. He is also the perfect player to bring on when trying to close out a match etc

The problem is when Ireland are behind, is he then the perfect player? that was the main question I have seen. It's not like he can't speed up the ball, he has done it before. It's just at the moment when he does come on it seems to slow it down.

Pale Caucasian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118775690#Comment_118775690

Honestly, Genge looks completely straight there. If this is the best evidence you can find of him boring in then I think you’re on a losing argument there. The ref didn’t call it because he was straight.

Either Furlong got aped for the first time in his career or there was something more fundamental offsetting his drive. I can’t put my finger on it but something was hampering Furlong.

Moreover when kilkoyne came on he was also destroyed. Is it just Genge superior power. The second row and flanker in behind Genge? Is something on our side? Hendo was off but was he that much off that he couldn’t drive his side of the scrum?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778661#Comment_118778661

Genge is not a great scrummager, English fans are shocked because of his performance. The first scrum when Ireland walked them back on their put in gave you a view of how good the England scrum was.

So either Genge suddenly became a beast in the scrum, Furlong lost all his ability. Or someone was cheating.

I think based on the reaction of the front row and the number of times they pointed out to Raynal we can think it was a bit of cheating

techdiver

Far too much negativity here (and I have been fairly critical and negative in the past). The only area England dominated was set piece and of that largely the scrum. The reason, terrible officiating end of story. Now if I was to be critical it is that was should have been illegal back.

Apart from that we were the only team who were attempting to play rugby. I couldn't care less about dropped offloads. Why you might ask? It's because we need to play like that and we need to be adventurous. We are not a physical team and cannot play an attritional game. Ok, I'll admit that some of the attempted offloads were a bit hail Mary, but for once we are working things out leading into a world cup whilst also winning. The team will learn more patience with these, but now is the time to find out.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778661#Comment_118778661

Compare Genge to Healy on the other side. You can see he's at an angle relative to Furlong. That's a snapshot before they start driving too.

Former Former Former

In other news, if Marcus Smith is as great an out half as we've been told, he's hiding it well.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778148#Comment_118778148

Raynal was obviously told at half time to watch for Genge stepping across. As he had completely missed it in the first half. First scrum in the second half, he warns Genge for stepping across. Scrum resets, Genge steps across again and he penalizes Furlong.

You could paint the Mona Lisa, but it makes no difference to a blind man.

A lot of posters on here would really want to look in a mirror every now and then!

Akrasia

POM was the top tackler for ireland yesterday

AdamD

I'm slightly amazed that in all of the discussion around the red card, few seem to be pointing out that James Ryan doesn't even have the bloody ball. Not only was it high, but it didn't need to happen. Very difficult to have any sympathy for an off the ball hit

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118778661#Comment_118778661

Have a look at this.....

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1503024512186597379?s=20&t=XRXlnx-eQFZCMT-yWDL9rA

How the hell this wasn't penalised I know not.

_NAGDEFY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118779068#Comment_118779068

You could start with yourself and the mirror. Too many on here, yourself included, are unable to reply civily, it's either reply with aggression or a smart answer. We're all disappointed we're not what we thought in November that if we don't develop a more robust pack and leadership a quarter final exit beckons at RWC 2023. No need to throw out your rattler at posters who point out this. We want evidence we can compete with the more physical sides. It hasn't been there v France and England. It's disappointing for us all.

The communication wasn't clear enough with Raynal. Leadership is about getting your point across. Changing, adapting. Ireland has no Richie McCaws, Alun Wyn Jones. You need a strong leader in the pack. Furlong, for all his brilliant qualities isn't that.

Or we didn't try and bore in ourselves. In any way counter Genge, legally or illegally. We dealt with the situation in effectively.

No enforcer in our pack, like Etzebeth, Bakies Botha, Itoje. Ryan, Beirne, Conan, O'Mahony, Henderson etc.. none will grab a game by the scruff like Paul O'Connell. It's a lightweight pack at the top level and hard to get to WC semis with that.

Caelan Dorris looked like a young Sean O'Brien in November. He's been very quiet. Josh V is playing excellent. But you need power with him in the backrow.

Leamy, Wallace, Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip offered more against the bigger teams 10-15 years ago than what's available now to pick a backrow unit.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118779340#Comment_118779340

The communication wasn't clear enough with Raynal. Leadership is about getting your point across. Changing, adapting. Ireland has no Richie McCaws, Alun Wyn Jones. You need a strong leader in the pack. Furlong, for all his brilliant qualities isn't that.

Or we didn't try and bore in ourselves. In any way counter Genge, legally or illegally. We dealt with the situation in effectively.

It’s amazing how you can portray such grand assumptions as if they are in some way facts. That back up your preconceived notions. No wonder you get so bet out of shape when they get challenged.

How do you know what was communicated to Raynal? Yet you can assertively say it wasn’t clear enough as if that is somehow factual? It’s very obvious from what happened in the second half, that it was clearly communicated to him. He also very clearly choose to ignore it. Yet. That’s somehow a failing of the Irish front row, leadership group or management.

Clearly like Raynal, you choose to not see what is very much in front of your eyes. For what reason, I don’t know.

On your second point, Furlong did try to control it and in doing so got penalized. Because Raynal choose to ignore Genge doing exactly what he warned him not to do.

Maybe if you didn’t come off as condescending and arrogant, people might reply differently to you. Just a thought.

Pale Caucasian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118779320#Comment_118779320

You’ve basically proven me correct. That photo Genge is straight but sinckler is sideways.

I look forward to seeing what Jackman and kinsella have to say.

I have a feeling Henderson wasn’t fit all game. Buckled in a fair few contacts.

_NAGDEFY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118779489#Comment_118779489

Furlong spoke after the match about Reynal misinterpreting what he said. That's not very effective game management.

Penalised because he still hit the ground first on his effort to bore. He lost the psychological battle with Genge and if you lose the first few scrums that can be that with some referees.

Maybe it's time you realised we often get destroyed in scrums in Twickenham. Yesterday was no different. Just more excuses. Being down a player averages a 4 point gain for the team with 15 players in international rugby per 10 minutes in recent studies. That's 32 over an 80 minute game with fatigue adding more points in the last 15 minutes or so. Blame the ref for England's pack dominating possession I suppose. If they had 15 we would have had a sobering defeat and be back to square 1.

'People might reply to me if I was less arrogant'... You Sir are the only one replying to me, no need for the plural. And you're the one who starts discourse with phrases like 'Well if you're such an expert'. You're clearly the one 'bet out of shape' whatever that meaningless, clumsy phrase even means.

'Bet out of shape' wtf 🤣

Weak people make excuses as Jim Telfer said. Since you want to bring mirror analogies into play he also said the honest player looks at himself in the mirror and says hes going to get better and better, he doesn't blame the ref, the pitch or others. Ref blaming is the ultimate block on learning, the ultimate cop out. The ultimate in weakness. It happens when parents cheer on their children at primary school games. Focus on what we can do better rather than pointing fingers.

Good luck Stephen.

Achilles Knee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777707#Comment_118777707

The type of arrogant, bad mannered posting that is synonymous with the rugby forum. A sickening smug clique here that turns off posters who enjoy genial discussion.

Podge_irl

Being down a player averages a 4 point gain for the team with 15 players in international rugby per 10 minutes in recent studies.

This is almost definitely related to the fact that yellow cards happen in the 22 and tries often result. Pro-rating it to a red card is nonsensical

_NAGDEFY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118779752#Comment_118779752

No, it's 7 for all scores and if ignores scores directly from a yellow card, 4.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118779340#Comment_118779340

Leamy, Wallace, Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip offered more

You've picked the best back row we have ever had. If that's your frame of reference we have never measured up since and very likely never will again.