Did the USA play a significantly negative role in events leading to Ukraine invasion?

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881002#Comment_118881002

What is really odd here is US intelligence had these images of the bodies for over three weeks or more. US spy satellites must have been over the area, taking snapshots of the battle for the town. Do they know what happened here, will they keep the evidence away from the public eye?

Another failure of some users to see what was right in front of them telling me for days this was Russian soldiers executing people on the way out of the town and bodies are all fresh. Everyone could see the bodies were on the street where a battle took place, got denials over that for days here,

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881099#Comment_118881099

Not all the bodies were killed at the same time. Some could be killed at the start, some could be killed as they were leaving. There's nothing contradictory about that. In any case, we know that these were executions of civilians by whoever was in control of that town over the last few weeks. It also fits in with Russian behaviour in war - raping, looting and executions are always present with primitive armies like the Russians.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881134#Comment_118881134

Not according to the New York Times. The bodies are all there in place three weeks ago. Is that not the claim? They're not fresh. Now, all investigators need to do is match the timeline here to events recorded in the area that week of March.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881154#Comment_118881154

Did you actually read the article. It does not say they all showed up 3 weeks ago.

"But a review of videos and satellite imagery by The Times shows that many of the civilians were killed more than three weeks ago, when Russia’s military was in control of the town."

It then goes onto mentioning another that showed up around the 20th. This isn't your "there you go" moment btw. The Russians said the bodies were placed there after they left. Meanwhile you've been constantly accepting the Russian line of denial. They are lying about what happened. If they were simply combat casualties, they wouldn't be claiming they were posed.

For a guy who thinks he's finding the real truth, you couldn't even read the article and understand the basic facts.

This somewhat describes your approach. You're gonna rework your conspiracies now.

https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1511094087792926729?t=8lE6QdtDxkBlzW9UYSrYdg&s=19

silliussoddius

Beyond parody.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880753#Comment_118880753

Sorry what do you mean by "smells"?

Sounds a bit like you are hedging your statement. You are also not actually addressing any of the points I made.

You still have not told us if you still stand behind your original claim that it is unlikely that Russians are targeting civilians.

Do you believe this is the still the cause or not?

If you ignore the question again I will take that to mean you still believe it is unlikely.

Also I think it's a bit odd that you're not taking cheerful to task for dragging the thread even further off topic.

No comment at all on his posts?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881002#Comment_118881002

Certain bodies on the street appear freshly killed (although in cold weather could preserve longer). There are bodies in basements, around the town, several burnt bodies by a tree, plus there are those who have been buried by locals, some buried by Russians, and there are those which have been buried in at least one mass grave near the church. The last combat action in the town was apparently on the 22nd March, and prior to that was early in the conflict when the Russians took the town. The Russians were there until approx 31st March or 1st April, with Ukrainians/news arriving around the 2nd April.

The conspiracy theorists will of course try to "catch out" any discrepancies in dates or info or witness contradictions in order to hint that "something fishy" is going on.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881260#Comment_118881260

So cheerful has claimed that the bodies have been there for weeks and that they were simply casualties of normal shelling. (Presumably justified shelling that wasn't targeting civilians).

Russia claims that those bodies were only placed there after they left by the Ukrainians and that they are fake.

So according to cheerful who cannot possibly wrong, Russia is lying.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880753#Comment_118880753

You claimed that you didn't believe Russians were killing civilians. I asked you about it in below post but no response so I presume you had gone or missed it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865590#Comment_118865590

But now you are back in the thread. Do you still maintain this view?

The dead people with their hands tied behind their backs, which witnesses say were murdered by Russians, do you believe someone else killed them? If yes, what's the evidence for that?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881291#Comment_118881291

Brace yourself, this thread is about to get disgusting. It's only going to get worse from here on in.

You're a scumbag - and I'll keep reporting you every day until you're done.

Dohnjoe

To repeat what I posted 3 days ago as it will likely become more relevant (actually several already ticked):

As a heads up, along with apologism for the invasion, the denial is all coming as well, to predict some of this:

1. "We can't know anything until official investigations", however any investigations by ICC investigators, Amnesty, HRW, etc will later be dismissed as propaganda or "politically motivated"
2. Focus on tiny details or strange occurrences or coincidences to hint that situations are manufactured
3. Dismissal of direct witness testimony of Ukrainians and locals because "that's what they would say"
4. Claims that reporters/journalists are part of some campaign
5. Any witness contradictions will be held up as clues that it's all fabricated
6. Bodies are "moving" or alive or whatever, the claim that these are actors (being claimed by the Russian ministry of defense and already on conspiracy sites)

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881260#Comment_118881260

Viewpoints on this thread, for the last couple of nights.

The bodies are fresh 100 percent—— Stop lying Cheerful about that.

Shot very recently, the last few days—- Same position as above.

Not a chance they got killed by incoming artillery/tank shelling—- Same point as above.

Nevertheless in this article, New York hints at this probability, and reports there are open craters next to the bodies. Just a theory.

There are two seemly unconnected events highlighted. Dohnjoe video the bodies all match the date of March 11th ( last satellite picture).

Bodies on the street before March 11th?

Your point.

A new body appeared sometime after the 20th of March ( correct)

Do I believe Russia lying? Yes i do believe the Russian government is covering up atrocities here. . I think it’s very possible Russian thug soldiers ransacked the place, shelled the street killed innocents , shot the civilians, up close or a bit away ( with scope weapons) knocked them down in their vehicles. Pallet bodies this an execution of men. Realistically I don't think Ukraine could have faked this atrocity event was more recent date more doubts, this event happened weeks ago Russian soldiers left the bodies on the streets and didn't seem to care. . 

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881863#Comment_118881863

Great. You accept that Russia is attacking and killing civilians and committing atrocities.

You are just nitpicking.

@CalamariFritti you are now on your own with your insistence that Russian troops aren't likely to be doing this. Congrats you're more extreme than our resident holocaust denier.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881863#Comment_118881863

Great you accept it, however experience tells me you'll pivot soon enough.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816284#Comment_118816284

With these lads it is always the same. If you are not with them you must be against. Pretty black and white view of the world and everything in it. There is no other way but their way. It is exactly how communists used to function, no dissent or questioning of approved truths and policies was allowed.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881955#Comment_118881955

You are in another thread attempting to imply it was an inside job by Ukrainians.

Birds of a feather

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881955#Comment_118881955

Lol. So we're all horrible cause we lump people together.

But then you argue that we're all exactly like Communists who don't allow questions.

That's very hypocritical and very funny.

We are asking questions. You conspiracy theorists seem terrified of questions.

And remind us. Who was it that was arguing the forum should be shut down...?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881933#Comment_118881933

Will be denying that the Russians did anything wrong and denying he ever admitted anything inside a week.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881963#Comment_118881963

Would you stop lying?

Nowhere did I say this was inside job by ukrainians. These are your own words.

Maybe you just need to slow down a little, I thought you were intelligent person yet you look more like fanatic right now.

My reply to CF you reacted to was about completely different stuff being discussed on march 21st. So do not be dishonest and try to pin it to something unrelated which happened recently.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882000#Comment_118882000

So you believe that some stuff was an inside job? Just not this most recent stuff?

Could you clarify perhaps.

Do you believe the civilian killings at Bucha were done by the Russian troops? If not, what happened?

Which events do you believe were faked by the Ukrainians?

Also it would be good for Pat to provide actual evidence...

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882063#Comment_118882063

Oh what I think is happening here is that pat is taking the opportunity to be offended at the suggestion that he believes that the civilian killings at Bucha are a false flag or whatever. But any attempts to get him to clarify what he believes happened will only get vague evasive answers. He won't actually deny that he believes that.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882056#Comment_118882056

Oh by all means I will clarify it for you as you seems to be bit slow too.

I reacted to CF post from 21st of march where he said:

Nobody is defending anything. This war is as f***** up as any war and needs to stop.

Just the hypocrisy and the ignorance is nauseating. Thats all.

To which I simply in other words said that with you lot it is easy. Black and white. If you do not scream "slava ukraine" you must be a russian bot. Pretty simplistic point of view but quite understanding. Black & White.

To further clarify it for you - I do not care a bit about russians and even less about ukrainians. I just do not like fanatics lapping up propaganda and going on crusades. This war to me is no different to any other war which happened since every war is about strong party attacking weaker opponent and end result is misery and destruction.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882104#Comment_118882104

Lol. You didn't answer my questions mate. You didn't clarify your position at all.

Thanks for proving my point.

And again you're railing that people oversimplifying stuff but then have all sorts of hypocritical accusations about people you are upset with.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881388#Comment_118881388

Yeah. I was also aware that the evidence is all fairly new and more is being collected as we speak so there was no point taking his bait. I'm quite familiar with these types. You can provide a mountain of evidence demonstrating what was already obvious but they find a smudge in a video and it's all they want to discuss.

dybbuk

OP, I strongly condemn the hijacking of your thread and the exchange of insults happening here. It is also absolutely irrelevant to the topic of your thread who killed who now.

The OP was asking:

"Did the USA play a significantly negative role in events leading to Ukraine invasion?"

"L E A D I N G TO" ok?

The question was not and is not "does a war have casualties" in general nor is it "who killed who" specifically now. Trying to portray a nation as evil is evil and stupid beyond words.

OP, please do not cancel your account!

This forum mainly consists of poorly informed, shallow and aggressive male keyboard warriors who suffocate every discussion that somehow deviates from mainstream media. They don't have an individual opinion and are only barking with the pack. The moderators should have advised them to stick to the topic days ago. Unfortunately, most moderators here do not appreciate the concept of free speech nor the value of a diversity of opinions. But that just makes your presence here even more important.

To answer your question:

Yes, absolutely they did. They appear to have organized it and they are the ones benefiting from it most. Also, the same players who have orchestrated this war are responsible for global warming and other aspects of environmental destruction (historians Michael Lüders (and I believe Daniele Ganser) agree with that).

OP, Thank you for raising the issue!

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882104#Comment_118882104

All this support for Ukraine must be nauseating for you. They are really just both sides of the same coin, I mean, in war, both sides are as bad as one another. On top of that the world is falling for all this propaganda by one side.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882870#Comment_118882870

The claim was made that the Russians aren't likely to be attacking civilians.

Do you believe this?

How can you expect to have a serious discussion about the lead up to the war when some parties aren't willing to accept that the Russians are capable, willing and currently attacking civilian targets. It's a simple reality of the situation. If people are going to dance around this, defend it, or outright deny it, then they will do so about other facts. Why would you expect otherwise?

Similarly when one of the people trying to argue that this is all America's fault also believe that the Holocaust is a hoax and that 9/11 was done by a secret cabal of Nazis, what kind of worthwhile discussion are you expecting?

Is there any reason you're not pulling up Cheerful for his incredibly silly posts about 9/11 or telling him that his views aren't welcome?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882870#Comment_118882870

Yes and we've had that discussion, no one was able to demonstrate in any coherent way that the US played a key role in this war. So the thread has devolved in the same way every thread on this forum does.

You claim that the US "appear to have organized it" - okay, so which US administration(s) organized this war and how? Your own words please

Keep in mind anyone with a basic grasp of current affairs/history can "blame" just about any key power for just about any major situation by cherry-picking information and using tenuous links. So let's try to avoid that.