Did the USA play a significantly negative role in events leading to Ukraine invasion?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805363#Comment_118805363

Lol I've missed your silly crayon drawings.

However, doodling on a map doesn't mean you actually know what you're talking about, nor does it make reality match what's in your head.

You are clearly talking out of your arse.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805432#Comment_118805432

All those people in the basement of that theatre were probably crisis actors according to Cheerful.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805289#Comment_118805289

i really don’t understand how he thinks this will be good in the long run. The Afghanistan war helped collapse one sh!tty Russian regime, hopefully this will do the same

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806132#Comment_118806132

 Putin is achieving his war aims which is why he doesn't care

The war disinformation is extraordinary and bizarre. Very easy to mass manipulate people to believe something true when it's not. I have read posts: the Russian army defeated, the Russian army performing poorly in Ukraine, Russian soldiers are not happy got low morale, Putin on his way out, posts like this.

The reality is Mariupol is besieged with Russian forces on four sides. There is not a chance it can be recaptured, When that goes collapses the entire South front in just three weeks, Putin forces are making gains east and west and some areas encircled. Ukraine army winning an information war all crap that will be shown to be soon.

Flinty997

If this was the plan its a very weird plan.

Most people thought they'd have taken the whole country in a few weeks. The surprise is that he hasn't.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118810998#Comment_118810998

Except Russia performing terribly is factual. Their army is being decimated to the point where it will take years to recover. They're looking likely to pass US casualty numbers in Afghanistan, in two months. They've also had a large proportion of their generals killed during this period. So nope, Russia is not doing well. Yes there's absolutely propaganda but it's a load of tosh to claim Russia is doing well.

On top of that, even if they take Kyiv and the rest of the country. Do you think that will be the end of it? Do you think Russia will easily slot In a puppet government?

Also in relation to your remark about the Ukrainians being responsible for the destruction.... That's the citizens of Ukraine defending their homeland from an invading force. You're actively trying to downplay war crimes...

Hotblack Desiato

Let's face it, everyone assumed that a full-scale Russian attack would defeat Ukraine within a week.

They tried, but they failed.

The performance of the Russian army has been laughably bad and must be a major source of embarrassment to Putin, if he is actually capable of feeling that emotion.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118810998#Comment_118810998

Lol not an ounce of self awareness.

Cheerful, you're just swallowing Putin propaganda, yet accuse other people of being manipulated by the media.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811773#Comment_118811773

And given the size of the militaries you’d expect Russia to perform better against Ukraine.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812063#Comment_118812063

Well according to cheerful, that's been their plan. They were planning to get bogged down and take weeks to seize a city all the while targeting and killing civilians.

Fathom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805232#Comment_118805232

Trump’s earlier good ole boy attitude towards Putin when USA president may have contributed to today’s attack on Ukraine. It takes time to plan, build logistics, and pretend to play war games nearby to Ukraine.

Plus Trump’s obvious 2024 run, and a continuation of his praise of Putin up to the day of the invasion may have suggested to Putin that a continuation of the Trump presidential role would serve Putin’s future interests by the USA being less committed to NATO, which Trump had been openly critical of on several occasions as president, up until today as the leader of the GOP.

Certainly today’s GOP has departed from today’s Trump position. Now supporting Ukraine in Congress. Because it’s politically popular to do so.

And it’s obvious that Putin is pursuing both his legacy and Russian interests in regaining control of a former USSR territory with large mineral assets, as well as a strategic position on NATO member countries. Plus blocking the eastward expansion of both the EU and the NATO alliance. Certainly in Russian interests to do so.

Flinty997

Working out well for him so far lol.

Fathom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805279#Comment_118805279

Are you suggesting that all of the continued destruction by Russian missiles and artillery bombardment, including the wounding and killing of innocent citizens, is the fault of the Ukraine military and their volunteers? That if the Ukraine surrendered to the Russian invaders all would be good in our Brave New World?

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815064#Comment_118815064

I'm sure USSR olympian level mental gymnastics will follow.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118810998#Comment_118810998

i think the media and gen pop thought this had to be over in a week, but in reality putin has the rest of his life to pummel Ukraine to the ground and not give a F** while doing it

Fathom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815078#Comment_118815078

Will we all need to be Russian Olympics drugged to see Putin’s 1984 Orwellian double think position as in our own best interests?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815117#Comment_118815117

Well until he bankrupts Russia at least.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815064#Comment_118815064

There are always two sides to a coin. If - hypothetically - we happened to be on the Russian side in this we would be hearing in the media how the Ukrainian army is using civilians as human shields by barricading themselves within civilian infrastructure aka cities & apartment blocks.

Since we're not we're hearing the other side of the coin version.

Are you suggesting that the Russian military is fighting in the cities for the fun of it? Or because they want to kill civilians?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815486#Comment_118815486

Russian pilots are pulling the trigger to drop bombs on buildings marked "children", the Russian artillery crews in Mariupol know they are shelling humanitarian corridors, the Russians who man grad launchers (multiple rocket strikes) know they are hitting residential areas.

Russia is conducting an illegal invasion of Ukraine based on lies, thousands are dying. It's over 24 days in, Russian troops are surrounded by all the evidence of their death and destruction, they aren't being welcomed as liberators, they are being protested as invaders, they know exactly what's going on.

You are attempting to play the "two sides" fallacy, by pretending there must be another narrative to this. Typically, with Putin's propaganda, it's one in which the Ukrainians or the "West" are to blame. Go ahead, what is the other narrative, and support it

CalamariFritti

Are you suggesting that the Russian military is fighting in the cities for the fun of it? Or because they want to kill civilians?

Why do you think the Russian army is fighting in the cities?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815599#Comment_118815599

The Russians are invading a country and killing it's people. What possible alternative is occurring according to you?

buzzerxx

Excellent Lecture from 2015 with over 22 million views.

Wonderful to hear someone not only speaking sense but doing it so clearly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815785#Comment_118815785

Yeah it's been posted here and on conspiracy forums, because it presents the same cookie cutter narrative they always want to hear, that the "West" is somehow to blame.

Flinty997

It's basically that the Ukraine has to submit to Putin or he'll nuke the world. All the political interference from the west didn't convince a huge majority of the Ukraine to move toward NATO or the EU. Putin did that with his actions elsewhere.

CalamariFritti

Whereas you want us to believe that the West has no involvement and if anything is merely promoting freedom and democracy. Pull the other one nobody is that naive

if the west just wanted to stop the killing how come we’re sending more weapons in there ? Seems kinda counterproductive

Based on some posters, pretty sure they would have been defending German expansion back in the day...

silliussoddius

I wonder what kind of overlap there is between the frothing at the mouth 911 inside job to attack Iraq brigade and the Putin tued polishers.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815893#Comment_118815893

Maybe if the Russian stopped killing them Ukrainians would stop shooting back. How about that.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815893#Comment_118815893

(Second time asking)

The Russians are invading a country and killing it's people. What possible alternative is occurring according to you?

"if the west just wanted to stop the killing how come we're sending more weapons in there ?"

Europe is being invaded, Ukrainians are being sent weapons by just about every European country to defend itself. Not sending them weapons is not going to stop the invasion. We've appeased Putin for years, it doesn't work.

Dohnjoe

The Kremlin indoctrinates Russians that the West is to blame for everything, so they at least have some excuse.

Posters in here on the other hand..