You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

Tell me how

There are no shortage of real world negative if not outright disastrous and terrifying ongoing situations that demand our attention right now, and it feels like this has been the case for at least a few years, if not all the way back to the financial crash in 08.

The situation in Ukraine, the ongoing Covid pandemic situation, the impact of Brexit are all very significant events which if they were being dealt with on their own would still be a memorable time in ones life, moreso depending on your proximity to them obviously. Having them all happen at the same time has been like some sort of nightmare that keeps getting worse.

Over the last 5-10 years, we've seen a growing conversation, including to a very significant level on here, suggesting that the things to be concerned about in the world have been liberal initiatives such as advocating for the climate, considering women's experience in society, multiculturalism, conversations about identity and so on. These have all been lumped together as 'woke/progressive/liberal/leftist/socialist/communist' agendas' that must be stopped or at least we should be wary of.

And yet, none of the significant life events that we are experiencing and suffering through are the cause of these topics that have fueled huge amounts of conversation as being something we need to be guarded against. And I don't think this is an accident. I believe that many of the influential people who have tried to focus peoples concern towards 'woke/liberal/progressive' topics have inflamed these mostly 'false flag' topics to both distract from what they themselves have been doing or what others that they agree with, have been doing and to paint anything that can be considered as progressive to be viewed warily as something to be concerned about and on guard against.

Russia is a central player in the whole conversation and not just because of what they are doing in Ukraine. The links between Russian operatives and key people in the UK (more of which is emerging hour by hour right now), in Europe, in the US and how those people have been involved in events in their own countries. The influence from prominent media platforms in the UK and USA for Russian positions. The admiration from influential conservative mouthpieces for Russia and Putin being very much non-woke and these people trying to promote the same ideals elsewhere. Many online bot and malware initiatives which emerge out of Russia. All these points are just some of the things that have influenced how we have experienced things such as US elections, the whole Brexit conversation, the Covid pandemic and the situation in Ukraine since 2014 and particularly now.

The promoting of uber-nationalism, minimal regulation at a corporate level with increased regulation at a personal level, media and free speech control and the downplaying of educated and experienced voices on various topics has shown to be a dangerous path to go down, and that is the path we are on in some instances and attempts to put us on it in more. The ongoing demonisation of any sort of progressive or compassionate ideal is a deliberate act to motivate people to align with a predominantly right wing view so that when people talk about some of the more serious things that are going on within that right wing, it is dismissed as just a liberal/woke narrative and those who got riled up about gender neutral bathrooms or whatever just fall in to line and dismiss the serious claims that need attention.

Some people tried to highlight where the real dangers were and have suffered greatly for doing so in having been targeted directly by the people they were warning about or their friends in the media and an army of largely anonymous, but often not, profiles online. And hundreds of millions are suffering from the impact that these manipulators have had on our societies. It's way past time for people to stop and think about who exactly has been encouraging people to fight on comparatively non-impactful topics while they themselves affect the world in very negative ways.

threadbans (from 8/12/22 - earlier ones remain in place whether listed here or not)

xxxxxxl

Tony EH

Cognitive Dissident

MagicJohn

SafeSurfer

nullzero

Overheal

Tell me how

Thinkabouit

Cordell

Dyr

Danno

I'm shocked...

...that you forgot to mention Sir Trump in your rant.

Iknow we've bashed off each other in threads before OP but i dont think you're wrong here tbh (and I'm sorry I was a dick to debate previously)

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058237196/youve-been-looking-in-the-wrong-direction-the-dangers-are-coming-from-the-right

liberal initiatives such as advocating for the climate, considering women's experience in society, multiculturalism, conversations about identity and so on.

…

the downplaying of educated and experienced voices on various topics

Essentially the whole thing can be summed up as “respect your betters” 😏

Well, you could have just said that instead of trying to demonise anyone who doesn’t share your opinions on many topics as being hoodwinked by idiots who are the equivalent of your political opposites to exactly the same degree -

In political science and popular discourse, the horseshoe theory asserts that the far-left and the far-right, rather than being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, closely resemble one another, analogous to the way that the opposite ends of a horseshoe are close together.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

Very well said, OP.

Pa ElGrande

Postmillennialism is an end-times view that focuses on the progressive victory and expansive influence of Christianity. It believes that we are currently living in the “Millennium” and that, during this indefinitely long period of time, Christians are tasked to extend the Kingdom of God in the world through the preaching of the gospel and the saving work of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of individuals. Dr. Michelle Reyes

Most of these intellectuals, of whatever strand or occupation, were either dedicated, messianic postmillennial pietists or else former pietists, born in a deeply pietist home, who, though now secularized, still possessed an intense messianic belief in national and world salvation through Big Government. But, in addition, oddly but characteristically, most combined in their thought and agitation messianic moral or religious fervor with an empirical, allegedly “value-free,” and strictly “scientific” devotion to social science. Whether it be the medical profession’s combined scientific and moralistic devotion to stamping out sin or a similar position among economists or philosophers, this blend is typical of progressive intellectuals.

source (page 399)

This whole left/right paradigm is nonsense. The pietistic-progressive movement that coalesced in the United States during the 19th century and dominated the 20th century has reached its apogee in the 21st century.  It is the neo-conservatives who are at home in both American political parties, who have pushed the United States into disastrous wars in the Middle East to spread liberal democracy, are the heirs of the simplistic thinking of those who once dreamed of turning government into a representative of God’s will on earth. It is also the ideology behind Samantha Powers responsibility to protect (R2P) that bought down Libya with secretary of state Mrs. Clinton and US president Obama in power.

The current conflict in Ukraine is caused by politicians who have not stuck to the terms of Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances (1994) and instead of disbanding NATO having served its cold war function, pushed it into middle East wars and edged closer to Russian borders in the late 90s. It is the April 2008 NATO Bucharest declaration that opened the way for the accession of Georgia and Ukraine that finally triggered the Russians to put their foot down which they did in Georgia in August 2008. There is a lot more going on leading to the events of 2012-2014 in Ukraine that is probably covered in the other thread and I'm not writing a history lesson. I believe had politicians actually stuck to their agreements made after the collapse of the Soviet Union that we would not be involved in this war I am quite content with a policy of Finlandisation as regards Ukraine.

What has surprised me so far is the lack of a peacemaker in this conflict, I had expected President Macron of France to take the initiative and stop this before it started, the inclusion and gaffs of US vice-president Harris indicate the Americans were not serious about stopping this and just convinced me that they had already taken the decision to let it happen having known Putins intentions since October 2021. Now everyone has dug their heels in this conflict will probably drag for the next 2 years dragging more people in more countries in and ultimately will result in defeat for Ukraine. Remember the Finns fought successfully for a while, they were ultimately defeated, what saved them was the Russians wanted a neutral buffer between them and Sweden (historical battle in Poltava, in todays Ukraine)

There is another factor to consider, that of Klaus Schwab and his great reset that practically all Western leaders have bought into ("build back better") or more realistically Communism 2.0, the return of command and control under the auspices of the Green new deal. Part of its aims were to try and exercise control over Russia and China through the Carbon market, not going to happen - President Putin of Russia pressed his own reset button.

Getting back to the progressives, they have been the dominant ideology in Western countries in the aftermath of World war II. It is the arrogance of the American hegemon and those that pull its strings with the expansion of their manifest destiny that has now reached its limits, both China and Russia strongly object to American encroachment, however, have been quite happy to engage in global trade which is probably the major factor that has kept world peace for so long. When you start cutting off trade on both sides, you are wiping out the global economy and once you have undermined this, you have removed the benefits and then it really does expand the war.

The reality is that all Western governments and many large corporations have massive debt loads, with ageing populations and huge welfare dependency both public and corporate (offense industry, education are wholly government entities). The reset for this debt load was coming anyway events have moved it along, the current crop of politicians are the most stupid I've seen in a long time and as a consequence we are now caught in a war economy and must navigate a world of civil unrest, shortages of food, energy and other goods , high unemployment, and rampant inflation (25%+).

Hitler and the Nazis rose long before modern media and the internet.

Is progress a myth?

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780139#Comment_118780139

Great post.

Potatoeman

OP you are far left, everyone is right of you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058237196/youve-been-looking-in-the-wrong-direction-the-dangers-are-coming-from-the-right

The situation in Ukraine, the ongoing Covid pandemic situation, the impact of Brexit are all very significant events which if they were being dealt with on their own would still be a memorable time in ones life, moreso depending on your proximity to them obviously. Having them all happen at the same time has been like some sort of nightmare that keeps getting worse.

And for my parents it was the open discrimination against married women, corruption within the political parties, the Vietnam war, the Cuban missile crisis, etc etc etc. For my grandparents, it would have been the 1916 rising, the civil war, the politics of Church and State, WW2, the Cold war, etc.

You're trying to make this out as if we're experiencing something much worse than other generational groupings. It's not. Every generation faces challenges both personal and cultural/national.

Over the last 5-10 years, we've seen a growing conversation, including to a very significant level on here, suggesting that the things to be concerned about in the world have been liberal initiatives such as advocating for the climate, considering women's experience in society, multiculturalism, conversations about identity and so on. These have all been lumped together as 'woke/progressive/liberal/leftist/socialist/communist' agendas' that must be stopped or at least we should be wary of.

We're simply seeing a reaction to the lack of resistance put forwards against a variety of social/cultural movements which gained steam under valid considerations, but have gone far beyond what they were originally intended to be. Many of these movements have been implemented under short-sighted feel-good sensations, rather than expecting/considering the possible negative aspects that come about from them being embraced on so many levels.

The thread on multiculturalism has shown just how vague the positives are, and how obvious the negatives are... and while there are posters with extreme views, there has been a decided lack of serious argument to show how great multiculturalism has turned out in the European countries that embraced the concept, and have since moved against their past policies.

TBH OP, I see that paragraph I quoted above to be simply a list of discussions you've been involved in, and failed to argue effectively for/against. You've jumped into the multiculturalism thread a few times, met opposition, and disappeared when your arguments failed to trump the counter arguments.

As for the lumping of issues, that's just the internet and the effect of the US culture/perception of two sides on all issues... which we can see in many posters these days, focusing on good/bad black/white, and little appreciation or tolerance for everything that goes in-between.

And yet, none of the significant life events that we are experiencing and suffering through are the cause of these topics that have fueled huge amounts of conversation as being something we need to be guarded against. And I don't think this is an accident.

Except that in many of those threads, posters have referred to how they've been affected, and invariably, their views are dismissed as being irrelevant. Or simply ignored. And you're right... I don't think that's an accident.

 It's way past time for people to stop and think about who exactly has been encouraging people to fight on comparatively non-impactful topics while they themselves affect the world in very negative ways.

I do find it ironic that you complain about the people who have been sidelined, ignored, or attacked over issues that concern them, but feel that others shouldn't be given the spotlight to voice/argue their own concerns. So, who gets to decide which topics are valid and of worth? Should we stop talking about domestic abuse towards men because it doesn't fit with your views of what's important? What about the creation of a new socio-economic poor/disadvantaged class because the policies in place towards immigration have not considered how to effectively house, educate, employ, or integrate foreign groups? Surely, these are issues worth discussing?

Nah. I don't buy it. This is just more of the same attitude of shutting down discussions that you don't agree with, or find irrelevant to your worldview, while elevating those who do champion the same causes you like.

DeadHand

A sublime outpouring of bigoted egotism.

Danzy

Russia certainly support the radical right. Undermine the status quo

They also support the radical and woke left, undermine society, undermine social cohesion, undermine national solidarity.

You are in the same camp and the majority view ye as one.

I've seen a lot of radical left posters on social media decree the nationalist impulse driving the Ukrainian forces.

It's a firm Nyet from me to your world view and those influencing you and funding it. Same answer as ye have heard for decades no pasaran.

arthursway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118779499#Comment_118779499

I too am very disappointed Trump didn't get a mention.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780139#Comment_118780139

So you can diagnose the problem but do you have the answer?

Also what I like about this and similar is,...everyone else is marching to the right or the left (depending on the poster) except for the poster, the poster can see what's really going on, everyone else is on the road to perdition and the poster is a lone voice who will be proved correct in time, will this happen before the great collapse? plus every politician is always a clown.

MarkEadie

There is a bad stench of incel off most on the right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058237196/youve-been-looking-in-the-wrong-direction-the-dangers-are-coming-from-the-right

What a dangerously simplistic narrative.

There have been Communist dictators and far-right dictators; there can be bad on both sides. What's repellent is extremism and a religious adherence to a view when you have no evidence; when you are a psychopath who cares little for human life; and a belief to force that view onto others.

That comes from both sides of the spectrum.

Your focus on 'the Right' means you are yourself targeting a group of people who are largely decent and normal people; ordinary Conservatives; and you're lumping them in with Vladimir Putin as a means to tarnish right-wing politics.

That would be as stupid as me suggesting that all left-wing people are in the same ring as Mao Zedong or Joe Stalin.

Extremism itself is the problem, as I outlined above, and not your simplistic and ironic interpretation to blame "the Other" for societies ills.

John Doe1

Seeing as anything considered slightly right of far-left is considered far-right these days, I take what you are saying with a grain of salt.

The way forward is centrist politics based on capitalism and common sense.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058237196/youve-been-looking-in-the-wrong-direction-the-dangers-are-coming-from-the-right

You have too much time on your hands. Find a more productive hobby, you'll be glad looking back. Either that, or get actively involved in politics if you care that much. But posting manifestos on boards? Really?

Tell me how

Thanks all.

Pretty much exactly what I expected to see. Both in the content and where it originated from. Right down to the apologist for Putin's actions, like Tucker himself wrote it. The Charlie Kelly meme was funny, well it would have been if it wasn't the case that what I said is literally being laid out in both right and left media right now.

Was pleasantly surprised at one poster who as they said, we have argued on various threads, but they can see there is truth in what I've posted.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781131#Comment_118781131

You don't know what a manifesto is do you? And one thread of this nature after years of 'the Left', 'the Left', 'the Left' stuff on here and I'm the one who as too much time on their hands? Interesting.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780996#Comment_118780996

There is little centrist about capitalism, at least the version of it we have been observing in recent years. Wasn't it Einstein who is supposed to have said something about doing the same thing and expecting different results. What was that phrase again? And I would say the same about the positions on dealing with lots of societal issues in the US being more police, more prisons and harsher sentences. The US has little over 4% of the worlds population, and 20% of its population of prisoners. What is more of the same going to fix? And I should add, to preempt my words being misconstrued, not now or ever, have I said that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780459#Comment_118780459

TBH OP, I see that paragraph I quoted above to be simply a list of discussions you've been involved in, and failed to argue effectively for/against. You've jumped into the multiculturalism thread a few times, met opposition, and disappeared when your arguments failed to trump the counter arguments.

Elsewhere in your post, you also mentioned how vague the positives of multiculturalism are, that is partially why I don't hang around that thread. I've posted a number of times detailed benefits to multiculturalism (I think I laid out about ten in one particular post) and repeatedly, these are ignored and when I drop in to the thread again, I see posts like 'no one can mention any benefits to multiculturalism', that thread has long passed being a debate, or even a discussion, it is 'safe space' for people to complain about the movement of people between countries when they are of different backgrounds.

Also, I never suggested that people on the right shouldn't have the opportunity to voice/argue their own concerns, again, they are your words, not mine. What I said was that what they have been highlighting as being things to be most concerned about, have mostly not played out to be the case.

And as for the stopping talking about domestic abuse against men, again, I never even hinted that that should be done. In fact, what I've frequently bemoaned is the qty of threads that are started by someone complaining about others advocating for something instead of calling for support and meaningful action on something that negatively impacts them or people they care about.

This isn't shutting down discussion, this is saying the majority of discussions about threats facing society should be on where the real threats are originating from, and not about topics that distract from and in many cases, completely brush over those threats or downplay their significance.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118779632#Comment_118779632

I don't necessarily disagree with the Horseshoe theory, well, I'm not sure if what many people think of as far left actually qualifies as such but rather that it was an ideology that was hijacked by a dictator who certainly has little differences between them and their 'peers' on the right. But that's a discussion for a different thread and maybe going by George Orwell's work, it's inevitable that such a trait will emerge and so has to be factored in to the ideology. But I would say though that I didn't refer to 'Far' anything in my post. That's your input. I'm sure there are some who fall in to that category, both central players in todays discussion, and some on here. But most definitely not everyone is all the way out there. But what I am referring to in the OP is the dangers that have still emerged because of the support and input from many on the right, even if not at the extreme. And if they are not great in number, which I am still willing to believe could be the case, they are in impact, and that is the problem.

Did also want to comment on your summation that my view is 'respect your betters', again, they are your words, not mine. We were led to believe that people on the right are big proponents of the 'facts over feelings' approach, surely then they should be arguing in favour of listening to those educated, experienced and active in a field rather than just some of the cuff opinion. No?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780546#Comment_118780546

This one made me lol. More use of buzzwords without understanding what they mean.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780881#Comment_118780881

Given that I read the GB News thread and am aware of who contributed most often to it, and that the chief backer of that station was named in the UK Parliament last week as being an agent of Russia, the fact that the original face of the station not only ignored the obvious evidence of much of what I've said but targeted someone who was reporting on it in order to undermine her, and the current face of the station is actively pushing a pro-Putin narrative, this is the post that surprised me the least. Congratulations.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780634#Comment_118780634

I believe this, 100%.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781762#Comment_118781762

I was being polite with manifesto. Others were probably closer to the truth with rant.

Fandymo

Average stream of consciousnesses . 4/10. Needs more Trump and BLM. Could do better.

Pussyhands

The "right" have been the villains for a long time now. This post makes no sense.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782161#Comment_118782161

the right do tend to have a more dichotomous view of the world, but the political left has been atrocious to

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780139#Comment_118780139

An interesting read surrounding a right wing conspiracy theory.

There is another factor to consider, that of Klaus Schwab and his great reset that practically all Western leaders have bought into ("build back better") or more realistically Communism 2.0, the return of command and control under the auspices of the Green new deal. Part of its aims were to try and exercise control over Russia and China through the Carbon market, not going to happen - President Putin of Russia pressed his own reset button.

Can we talk more about what it is you think klaus Schwab and the WEF are really doing?

https://www.visionofhumanity.org/the-spread-of-the-great-reset-conspiracy-in-the-netherlands/

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782737#Comment_118782737

First it was The Rothschilds. Then George Soros. Now Klaus Schwab.

I'm sure I'll wake up one day and someone will link Joe Costello to being the latest scapegoat to people's own failures.

Manach

And we on the conservative right would have gotten away with it too if it were not for the OP's revalation of our dasterly schemes!

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782836#Comment_118782836

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782853#Comment_118782853

What?

(・_・ヾ

mohawk

The problem as others have said is extremism. This applies to both the left and right.

There appears to be a trend that people who are left or right leaning have taken to being against the other sides positions at all times. Your either with us or your against us attitude. This seems a bit cultish to me because I have always been a person who leans left in some things and on other hand can see in some things the right have the better ideas.

I really hope online doesn’t reflect attitudes of younger generations because of how black and white the views are. In my youth I had full blown arguments with some politically minded friends and it never affected the friendships when we disagreed.

One thing that keeps me coming back to boards is that there are posts I strongly disagree with but I think it’s important to my worldview to read and consider positions I both agree and disagree with.

Suckit

They are going after the Census now..

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781762#Comment_118781762

Pretty much exactly what I expected to see. Both in the content and where it originated from.

But what I am referring to in the OP is the dangers that have still emerged because of the support and input from many on the right, even if not at the extreme. And if they are not great in number, which I am still willing to believe could be the case, they are in impact, and that is the problem.

Did also want to comment on your summation that my view is 'respect your betters', again, they are your words, not mine. We were led to believe that people on the right are big proponents of the 'facts over feelings' approach, surely then they should be arguing in favour of listening to those educated, experienced and active in a field rather than just some of the cuff opinion. No?

I know where you’re coming from, and that’s why I pointed out that your perspective is no different than the people you’re critical of who do not share your opinions, who are who are the equivalent of your political opposites to exactly the same degree. That’s how the horseshoe theory applies - I didn’t say anything about extremes on either side of the political divide either. I was making the same point that you are, only from the opposite perspective.

The difference between us is that I don’t see any danger to society in anyone having a different opinion from my own. It’s for this reason that contrary to your assertion that anyone should defer to people who are better educated and have more experience, I do not suggest anyone should do any such thing. It’s why whatever you claim you were led to believe is not what I was led to believe, because I was able to see the opinions of the types of idiot announcing “facts over feelings” and so on, for what they were, instead of relying on those people as some form of moral authority. I am by no means unique in that regard, which is why most people do not gravitate towards extremism on either side, and aren’t interested in political polemics.

I would be equally as skeptical of much of the BS that emanates from liberal quarters, like the suggestion that society is in any danger from academics and social media personalities who aren’t even that well-known within their own political domains, let alone outside of those domains.

I also wouldn’t be relying on the writings of Orwell to support a point of view one way or the other to be honest. He didn’t have a particularly high opinion of people who he saw as beneath him -

Gollancz objected both to Orwell’s visceral disgust at the working classes, but also to the lampooning of the well-meaning, middle-class socialists who earnestly tried to foster revolutionary consciousness, denouncing ‘every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, Nature Cure quack, pacifist and feminist in England’.

https://www.bl.uk/20th-century-literature/articles/nineteen-eighty-four-and-the-politics-of-dystopia

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780591#Comment_118780591

I'd agree with a lot of that Danzy. In most of Europe it's the far right who the Russians support mainly because they are the biggest crank group with the best potential for disrupting and weakening the EU. In Ireland there is no far-right so instead they support the far-left out of convenience, preying on their anti-americanism and Russia's historical role in that, but the end goal is the same.

And I've also seen some disgraceful social media posts from far-left posters, it's not the opinion of all thankfully but certainly some. A simple motto of 'end the war' or 'no more militarism/nationalism' isn't much good when you have one side intent of destroying the other, at best it's downright insulting. A lot of these people need to go back and see where 'no pasaran' came from and why it's important to stop fascism in it's tracks. Even if you are against nationalism you've got to see the Russian nationalism is the biggest issue here

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782737#Comment_118782737

It does help that the central character is straight out of a James Bond film casting. It is right to be suspicious when the great and the good are hopping on private jets in a get together to promote topics that may well impact you. Lets see who is on the board of management at the WEF a few names catch my attention all are heavily into the Green new deal.

• Larry Fink (Blackrock - who is pushing ESG)
• Mary Carney (Banker promoting "Green finance")
• Christine Lagarde (ECB)
• Kristalina Georgieva (IMF)
• Al Gore
• Orit Gadiesh (Bain & Company)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3nWyoQ5CQ

newhouse87

left good, right bad, that's it summed up i think. Thread can be closed now i reckon.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118783696#Comment_118783696

Another youtube video doesn't help me.

What exactly is it you think Klaus Schwab and the WEF are engaged in?

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118783709#Comment_118783709

But what about Klaus Scwab and WEF are they going to reset the entire human race or not?

Boggles

Whatever Klaus is up to he'd want to giddy up, the lad must be a 100.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118783753#Comment_118783753

Who in gods name is that? Thought wef was a spin off from wwe the wrestling show for a minute.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118783781#Comment_118783781

I thought you knew. You thanked Pa ElGrande's post where he brought up Klaus. The section is quoted below for you.

There is another factor to consider, that of Klaus Schwab and his great reset that practically all Western leaders have bought into ("build back better") or more realistically Communism 2.0, the return of command and control under the auspices of the Green new deal. Part of its aims were to try and exercise control over Russia and China through the Carbon market, not going to happen - President Putin of Russia pressed his own reset button.

From my reading of the internet Klaus Scwab and WEF are the new bogeymen for conspiracy minded right wing grifters to parrot **** about.

@Tell me how

@Tell me how how is state mandated patriotism regimented in the likes of North Korea, China and now Russia without the thing that the left used to be the defenders of but now seem to have waged an all out war on, freedom of speech.

The majority of the defenders of this important, western principle seem to be coming from the right these days and that is a very terrible thing. I bet you’d struggle to find an advocate for freedom of speech in support of any of these authoritarians.

There is a battle right now in the west for what exactly our values are. Hopefully we can use this moment to find clarity and galvanise populations that otherwise were on the brink of civil war.

It's easy to identify the faults in others, OP, less easy to have the humility to address our faults. That sounds irrelevant, almost apolitical, but if we kept our own faults and limitations in mind, there would be more humility and less hostility in politics.

There are truths in the politics of both right and left.. neither owns reason, or common sense, or financial discipline, or any of the other qualities we tend to look for and talk about when it comes to politics. It would be egotistical, deluded, and extremely bigoted to claim that one group has all the solutions to society's problems. It would be insanity to claim that themmuns' worldview should be mocked and even obliterated, but that's exactly what some people turn politics into. (It's especially grandiose when themmuns refers to extremely large groups of people e.g. 'the left' or 'the right' or 'Americans' or 'Brits' or yadda yadda.)

I don't think Ireland is that bad. The discourse is much worse in the US, especially since Trump, where the binary system magnifies this either/or approach to politics and people.

If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

--Solzhenitsyn

And BTW Russia and China have fully infiltrated the politics of both left and right in the US, stirring exactly the kind of division you rail against in your OP.

newhouse87

some of that post i agreed with. Don't fancy learning about him either.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781983#Comment_118781983

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782079#Comment_118782079

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782161#Comment_118782161

Is that all you guys can come up with? There's plenty in my posts to refute should you disagree with it and yet none of you even attempt to.

Disappointed to be honest, not really surprised,

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784148#Comment_118784148

Don't dispute that there is right or wrong on all sides, but I don't see any argument refuting the point I made in the OP that the most cataclysmic events most of us have experienced have come about because of the actions of those who are comfortable with a right side ideology. To try to suggest 'both sides are at it' is to ignore the reality firstly of the fact that the consequences of the actions of one group are significantly more detrimental than that of the other. And secondly, that much of what is highlighted as being the motivations of the Left has been a strawman of sorts (with a grain of truth, certainly) about the Lefts intentions that has been used to enrage people in opposition to this strawman and this is not good for our societies.

I would also say that the appeal to recognize the evils on all sides makes me raise an eyebrow significantly when reading it, and many of those who thanked the post given their role in perpetuating the narrative in this space that the ideals of the left (as they identified them) have motivated so much of their content over recent years. As I pointed out, there has been an overwhelming narrative on here that the issues of the left are the more problematic ones and that is not the case. It reminds me of the actions in the US congress when one side called for bipartisan initiatives in an attempt to shut down investigations in to the actions that led to the capitol being stormed. The democrats have been too forgiving in not holding their opposition to account and this has emboldened significant players within the GOP that would have their leaders of yesteryear rolling over in their graves.

And its not just the US, in the UK yesterday, Michael Gove tried to play the partisan card and while this is politics, and that is what is often the way of things, he is trying to sweep under the rug the massive influence that russian players have had and continue to have in UK politics and the real world impact of their abysmal response with respect to accepting refugees. The Conservatives are in power for over ten years in the UK, they should have to own the society which now exists in that country and to allow them play the 'there's bad people on both sides' type thing is dangerous. That is the point. We have the evidence of that.

And I am concerned about this, aside from the ongoing active issues, but because of the issues that are likely going to face us as a global population more and more going forward. I believe that the topic of sustainability (both in terms of resources and impact on the climate) is going to be one of the biggest issues that is going to motivate conflict and strife as we go forward. And many of the same players who have been found to have behaved, and continued to behave shamefully, within the Right/Left. Woke/'Calling it as I see it' are already using the same tactics that they have used for various reasons to paint the left as the bogeyman to do the same once again with respect to Climate scientists and people who advocate restraint.

We can't ignore this issue like other issues have been ignored, the consequence of that is likely to be much more significant and impactful. Your final sentence is the point I was making with respect to Russia. Not just the US, but UK politics also. And the fact that this has happened is why I started this thread. I believe Brexit came about as a consequence of this and when one journalist in particular painted a very clear picture of the Russian influence in the Brexit space (and beyond) she was ridiculed and sidelined including publicly by the chief political correspondent of the BBC at that time who went on to launch a station that was specifically launched with the agenda of being 'non-woke' and was backed by a supposed Russian agent. That is why we are in this mess, because these things have happened, but people choose to turn a blind eye to them and instead get angry because someone wanted to be referred to as he/him or whatever.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784049#Comment_118784049

The majority of the defenders of this important, western principle seem to be coming from the right these days and that is a very terrible thing

You think? Opposition to whatever they think 'CRT' is in schools in the US would suggest not. Opposition to people calling for the fair treatment of all by the police in the US would definitely suggest not.

The recent policing bill in the UK making it next to impossible for people to protest definitely isn't the defending of free speech. And as for the shutting down of all independent news stations and arresting people protesting with blank signs in Russia, surely there's no debate about whether that is supporting free speech or categorically preventing it.

But, the 'dark forces' I am referring to in my OP are those who have ignored these acts and tell us that the 'right are defenders of free speech' when all the evidence suggests otherwise.

By being ignorant to what is really going on for too long, we have ended up in a situation where Russian media is broadcasting Tucker Carlson because his narrative supports their agenda, and in the UK Nigel Farage is also speaking out in support of them. It is in having allowed such people to push a narrative that we have, as you point out, ended up in a situation where war is a distinct possibility.

bewareofthedog

OP if you went on a board like Breitbart you'd find similar arguments saying all the problems are coming from the left. When people spend a lot of time in political echo chambers ( or any echo chamber ) they increasingly begin to believe everything they hear if it sways in their preferred direction and block out everything else.

[quote]suggesting that the things to be concerned about in the world have been liberal initiatives such as advocating for the climate, considering women's experience in society, multiculturalism, conversations about identity and so on.[/quote]

There's pushback against some of the topics you've mentioned because there's elements associated with them that are extreme. Taking the identity argument for example I can imagine that the average joe majority would question biological males being allowed to compete in Women's sports. On the topic of multiculturism a majority voted for Brexit and I didn't find it all that unbelievable since there's 50k potential terrorists on a watchlist over there. Things aren't always black or white, right or wrong.

I don't believe there's some widespread cohort effort happening like you describe. There's always going to be people on the far right and the same is true for those on the far left. If I were you I'd ask a mod to delete this thread and take a break from political sites on the internet for a while, it's good for the mind.

Tell me how

Here is Nigel Farage with his latest 'rinse and repeat' initiative.

https://twitter.com/PowerNotPoverty/status/1503422293288144906

It conveniently is launching at the same time as a light is being shone on Nigel and Richards Russian connections which is no accident I suspect and will look to do what worked for them on Brexit. Use simple buzzwords, 'Vote Power, not poverty' what does that mean anyway? It will promise a future that will not come to pass and it will look to demonise the educated people who are advising again.

This is quite simply dangerous. It will seek to kick the can further down the road so that most of the people involved will not have to deal with the worst consequences of what they are promoting and they stand a good chance of succeeding because they will look to convince people that they can have it all, they won't have to curtail their habits with respect to energy use, they won't have to pay for the consequences of what they are doing and there are no downsides.

It worked for them for Brexit, but Brexit hasn't worked for the people that voted for it. It is telling as to how much power he thinks he has that he can call for a referendum on such a topic. Maybe he knows such a black and white question on such a monumental and wide ranging topic will never happen, or maybe he thinks it will and he can shout about the 'will of the people' once again. But it is dangerous to ignore the reality of what we are facing just to avoid having to consider any sort of changes from what we are currently doing.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118786586#Comment_118786586

If I were you I'd ask a mod to delete this thread and take a break from political sites on the internet for a while, it's good for the mind.

Brilliant. Gave me a laugh.

Your earlier reference to Breitbart and so on is part of the problem, too many people shrug their shoulders and say 'sure they're all at it,' because they haven't stopped long enough to analyze the arguments.

I am on the record on here for saying I don't broadly agree with biological males competing with females because I believe the gains from having lived a significant amount of time as a man can simply not be removed despite hormonal treatment. And I am basing that on the output of scientists such as Ross Tucker of World Rugby. At least I'm consistent in that respect.

But I also don't think it is as big an issue as it was made out to be an I am very skeptical of the 'won't someone think of the poor girls they are competing against' when on so many other topics they refuse to show any inclination towards thinking about things from the perspective of females.

arthursway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118786581#Comment_118786581

By being ignorant to what is really going on for too long, we have ended up in a situation where Russian media is broadcasting Tucker Carlson because his narrative supports their agenda, and in the UK Nigel Farage is also speaking out in support of them. It is in having allowed such people to push a narrative that we have, as you point out, ended up in a situation where war is a distinct possibility.

So two news anchors Nigel farage and tucker Carlson talking for an hour in the evening is the reason that WW3 is a an ever growing possibility? Come on man.

There has been Democrat presidents in the USA for 10 out of the last 14 years.

The only presidents term russia didn't invade anywhere is during the 4 years of the Republic presidents term.

Saudia Arabia and UAE won't even answer the current Democrat presidents call and hold mass executions at the same time.

Iran just cruise missiled a US consulate under construction in Iraq.

It is becoming very evident that other world leaders have no respect for Joe Biden and have grown ever bolder since the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle.

The Democrats currently control the White House and Congress in Washington along with most major cities in the USA which I understand is where you are currently living. If your not happy with how things are going in the USA you need to point that finger at the door of the left wing im afraid, an ability you don't seem to possess at the moment but hopefully this thread has been a real eye opener for you and removed the political blinkers you have put on yourself.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118786602#Comment_118786602

Intelligence services in the us have serious questions around the election of trump and Russian involvement. We know that Russian money funded many brexit campaigns and that Russia attempted to interfer in brexit.

Yet you hold up both trumps presidency and brexit as positives of right politics.

Gas stuff altogether.