You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.
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The last 4 words of this post I take as a compliment coming from you. I have no desire to appear knowledgeable to someone who has shown their own hand in that area in the way you have done. I am now going to take Mark Twains advice on how to proceed.
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You have no desire to appear knowledgeable? That tracks.
You're telling me to start a thread on Russian history because I picked you up on how poor your handle of the subject is. It's relevant to this thread because your entire argument is that anything bad = right wing.
That's the problem with your argument, you assume that anything left wing is inherently good and when you try to flesh out that argument your lack of knowledge is exposed.
We all know that Fascism is a dreadful ideology that results in horrific outcomes but Communism results in equally horrific outcomes.
You made a statement about post WW2 era Russia not being representative of the "ideals of communism". I put it to you that such a statement is a cop out, "Oh Russian Communism was wonderful until Stalin was running things" but the problem for you is that Stalin was around a long time before WW2.
What exactly are the ideals of communism? Can you explain it to us? Or are you not up to speed on that either?
You've come here and argued about a number of issues which are self evidently right wing but you're also saying that because Putin is a swine of a man the only logical explanation is his inherent right wing nature. The man was a dyed in the wool member of the Russian Communist system and has often spoken of his fondness for the old days of the Soviet system, a system which much like a right wing authoritarian system was a jack boot in the face of the people it governed.
You can't seem to accept that even an extremist far left system could ever be capable of wrong doing without having first abandoned its left wing ideals.
If you want to ignore reality fire ahead, just don't expect other people to share your delusion.
Glazers Out!
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Right, well Im not sure how I'm to respond to charges made by you against other posters.
Identity politics is a poison to a society and should be pushed back against, but from what I have seen it seems to be to be embraced by more(not all) leftists. Im sure others would have a different opinion.
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Sure it is.
Check out Lindsey Grahams contribution on the ongoing senate hearings and how many times he refers to 'the left' and also 'our side' as he speaks.
Our how often it appears in Farage speeches.
Our how GB News founded a station on it.
Our, the amount of times it appears on Boards from those focused on decrying left ideals.
I'm fine with being against it, not with portraying it as something driven largely by those on the left with so much contrary evidence.
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What?
You are fine with people being against left ideals but not with people portraying that the left are driving those ideals?
Are you honestly saying that people on the left are not engaging in and driving identity politics?
Jesus. That, alongside the whole, "the Biden laptop thing has nothing to do with Joe or not an example of the left media suppressing news to influence an election" kind of shows how dishonest this whole thread is.
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'How dishonest this whole thread is'
What part is dishonest? The major problems facing the world? The influence of right ideologues in bringing these about? The interconnections between various influential people and the Russian state, or Russian citizens? The admiration many of these people have for the idea of being non-woke, non-liberal etc? The use of comparatively inconsequential topics to rile people up and have them look towards the left, rather than what is happening on the right?
Because that is what this thread is about and a number of posters, who still have an issue with the thread, have acknowledged that various points I have made are true.
And I never said people on the left are not engaging in identity politics, I'm saying it is not driven mostly by those on the left. You either have trouble comprehending simple sentences, or accepting what it is I am saying. I can't help you with the latter, feel free to debate the former but if you continue to try to make this just about me, I'll take it that the thread has hit very close to the mark.
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Do you think it was a major problem that the "left" media deliberately buried the story about Hunter bidens laptop in order to influence the American presidential election?
Actually, do you agree that they left media deliberately buried the story?
That's more pertinent.
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I don't give a fraction of half a fcuk about Bidens laptop because I think it is almost 90% sure to be nothing more than a tactic dreamed up by Giulianni/Trump/Bannon or similar characters in an effort to target Joe. Look at the chain of evidence around it and tell me do you believe the stories around it. And no, I don't think 'the left' deliberately buried the story. I think they could see it for what it was, who was behind it and said they weren't going to touch it.
It does interest me in the sense of how outraged you guys are about it and yet when Jared and Ivanka were both appointed to roles within the Trump administration and also simultaneously made between 170M and 640M while working in the White house and yet all the effort is going in to talk about the laptop of someone who has nothing to do with politics.
Or how about Ivanka having several patents fast tracked in China? While she was working for the Trump Administration, have you any concerns about that?
Or do you think there is any reason to be suspicious about Jared Kushner supposedly getting 2Bn from the Saudi Arabian Public Investment Fund and how Trump rolled over on challenging them on the death of Jamal Khashoggi? Or do you think it was appropriate to have Kushner so heavily involved within the administration given that he was initially denied for high level security clearance given the concerns about him possibly being open to foreign influence?
Or maybe you are interested in how Rudy Giuliani's son also ended up with a role in the White House titled 'Sports Liason', does that interest you?
Or if you have no interest in any of the above, why are you so interested in this supposed Hunter Biden laptop story?
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This is huge and shows the persuasion the left have regarding the mainstream media.
No suprise the OP dismisses it and rants about the Trump's.
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The difference is, the topics you mentioned were not buried (or sometimes outright banned) by the majority of the media (nor should they have been).
But the fact that you dont give a fraction of a **** about what was undoubtedly suspicious behaviour surrounding the media's burial of a story that would have damaged biden is proof enough that you are only interested in stories that feed into your narrow view and are unwilling to acccept or ignore anything else.
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Please point me in the direction of Foxes take on the above so we can see the level of analysis it got.
And sorry, but if you are buying something that looks to have been concocted by Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani, then that's on you.
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Sorry, can you edit your post to remove the term 'mainstream media'.
People have recently become allergic to identity politics, I don't want them breaking out in a rash or anything, they seem to have developed quite the reaction.
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Why Fox? They are notoriously biased towards the right.
My point is that the left wing media, and social media, report with extreme bias, in much the same way as the right wing media do. The biden laptop scenario and the way it was (not) reported on was absolutely important.
I'm not blaming just the left.
I didn't start a thread saying that the left are at fault and the dangers are coming from them.
My whole premise is that your thread is an absolute joke and just feeds into your whole "the right = bad, left = good" outlook.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, the thread is a joke. You've said it in every second post.
It clearly isn't though, no matter how often you repeat it. There's demonstrable evidence of the links between those with right wing ideologies, and those who have initiated very negatively impactful actions on an international scale, (or global when it comes to the climate).
And I'm not buying the both sides narrative so quickly when it comes to the media either. I'm not saying the left aren't biased, of course they are. But we haven't seen them put such efforts in to, or be so successful in influencing the world in a negative way. Sean Hannity literally strategised with Trump before and throughout his Presidency. GB News was specifically set up to push an agenda and their chief backer is said to be a russian agent and their current main draw also has connections with Russia and bears a significant responsibility for Brexit. Not to mention the role Rupert Murdoch has had on Australian, US and British societies.
Your premise is to ignore the points of the thread and focus on me, that's fine. You haven't even attempted to counter the negative impacts the events I listed are having, or that they have been driven by right wing ideology. I've never said only the right are responsible for all issues, just that they've gotten a pass from too many on the issues they are responsible for as people focus on the false flags distractions instead.
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Was going to write my own comment about the breaking news this evening, but this pretty much covers it.
Anyone want to guess what the Republican reaction would be in such a scenario? That's a Supreme Court Justice! Anyone think they are likely to be capable of being impartial on topics that relate to the former President?
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This one is for you the dunne.
How do you think the media would react if, say a Jeremy Corbyn (more on him later) led Government with Jess Philips as Chancellor announced say a 6B support scheme for low income households in the UK? Because, if you want to talk about media silence, it has been pretty silent on supposedly a similar figure written off by the UK government in Covid supply related fraud. And I shouldn't have to list the relationships that existed between some of the individuals and companies who were part of Covid material supply contracts and Government ministers.
with respect to Jeremy Corbyn and the wider issue of the impact of Brexit. I'm comfortable with apportioning some blame in his direction for how Brexit played out. The oppostion from Labour to the fiasco that went on in the Tory government with respect to Brexit throughout 2016-2020 was shameful in its own way. But where as he played a role in some of what went on in terms of negotiating a withdrawal agreement with the EU, or more specifically, in not providing an alternative, this was done out of incompetence whereas those who were pushing for Brexit, including elected officials, did so for their own personal motivations and gain.
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The Justice Department inquiry into the business dealings of the president’s son has remained active, with a grand jury seeking information about payments from around the world.
Buried at the bottom of the article.
"People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation."
So no, it wasn't a made up story by Bannon or Guiliani. The New York posts twitter account was suspended for 16 days in the run up to the election for posting a story that was factual. I find it amusing that actual russian disinformation like the dossier was a 24/7 talking point on news channels for months if not years, yet when a potentially damaging story to Biden of shady foreign dealings comes to light it got immediately quashed.
Doesn't surprise me at all, I lost any notion of those in power politics ( left or right ) paying for their deeds after the FBI had hundreds of emails of a certain secretary of state, who, while in office arranged visits and meetings with dictators in exchange for large lump sums of cash to that persons own foundation.
Post edited by bewareofthedog on4 -
"I've already posted about the ties between Russian individuals and those in the UK who pushed hard for Brexit and also about the influence that Russia has had on various societies, particularly over the last 10 years. This is what the former Russian ambassador to the UK is reputed to have said"
Alexander Yakovenko’s words became public through ‘Shadow State: Murder, Mayhem, and Russia's Remaking of the West’, a book written by journalist Luke Harding. Published in 2020, Shadow State suggests the Brexit vote was backed by the Kremlin, with an aim to weaken Britain.
Is that the same Luke Harding known for peddling Russian conspiracy theories such as this?
"The Guardian immediately started to walk back its claims, editing the article a number of times, changing its headline from “Manafort Held Secret Talks With Assange in Ecuadorian Embassy” to “Manafort Held Secret Talks With Assange in Ecuadorian Embassy, Sources Say.” It inserted qualifiers, denials and words like “hoax” into the text, quietly changing much of the tense of the report to the conditional. Thus, the passage “It is unclear why Manafort wanted to see Assange and what was discussed. But the last meeting is likely to come under scrutiny” was changed to (emphasis added) “It is unclear why Manafort would have wanted to see Assange and what was discussed. But the last apparent meeting is likely to come under scrutiny.” Thus a piece that started as a factual news report was transformed into an allegation — after it went viral and was picked up across international media.
Harding also has a history of publishing deeply inflammatory claims without being able to back them up. His book, "Collusion," on alleged Russian interference in the 2016 election was a New York Times No. 1 bestseller, and yet he could not give any evidence of collusion when asked in a now-infamous interview with Aaron Maté of The Real News, unable to defend even the title of his book, let alone his thesis. After being pressed harder by Maté, he simply disconnected the interview prematurely."
I'm happy to see he's now moved on the UK - yet I still haven't seen any evidence of wrongdoing by UK politicians. Where is the evidence of money being exchanged, emails of discourse, meetings? Of course Russia would have wanted Brexit to succeed it's hardly a big revelation.. countries covertly supporting certain election outcomes happens all the time.
"According to the study, the U.S. intervened in 81 foreign elections between 1946 and 2000, while the Soviet Union or Russia intervened in 36.[2][11] A 2018 study by Levin found that the electoral interventions determined in "many cases" the identity of the winner."
Harding is no different to the likes of Seth Abraham, their sole goal is to make a quick buck off people who need to feed their confirmation bias. Of course, there's plenty of similar people on the right doing the exact same thing.
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Well, unfortunately, the 6 months that have passed since I started this thread showed almost daily just how accurate a statement the thread title was and is.
In the US, the freedom for women to decide what to do with their bodies has been viciously attacked while the right wing mouthpieces are building towards a desire to claim the country as a Christian Nationalist state. Even evidence of a ten year old having to seek reproductive care to avoid carrying a rapists baby led to Conservatives introducing laws to target medical professionals who give care and guidance to such unfortunate girls. And immediately after claiming that reproductive care should be decided at a state level, they are talking about attempting to introduce a national ban on the critical care that many women need and use. And the same people who have instigated the removal for rights of half the population have also openly announced their desire to look at peoples right to marry who they love even if they are of the same gender or race.
Meanwhile, some more of their elected representatives on a national level are as close to admitting their guilt in sex trafficking's under age girls in trying to finagle a pardon from the former President. At a regional level, they tried to introduce legislation removing age requirements for marriage in Tennessee.
The second favorite for the Republican nominee for the next Presidential election literally manipulated and trafficked humans as pawns in a political game. (Very Christian of him of course). The same guy has supporters openly flying Nazi flags outside Disney world.
The 'cancel culture snowflake bleating' generation that they are are the same ones who are removing historically and culturally significant books from schools and libraries even though they lost their mind when the publishers of Dr Seuss books suggested that they would self regulate some of their historic titles.
And as for Trump, the continued idol of right wing nationalists in the 21st century. Currently being investigated for fraud, sexual assault, election tampering and fcuking espionage!!! All this after being impeached twice while President and having several of his cohorts charged, tried, convicted and jailed for various acts. One of them, who formerly was a US National Security Advisor just last week announced that robotics are being injected in to people as part of Covid shots. Another one, is the wife of a Supreme Court justice no less and tried in various ways to have the election overturned in his favour throughout the final months of 2020. And still the conservative leadership and mouthpieces refuse to identify him for what he is and a huge number of candidates who will appear for the Republican party in elections in November still repeat the lie that the 2020 election was stolen from him. The evidence that has been presented at the Jan 6th enquiries should have shamed Republican's in to groveling apologies and yet there has been none of that. Those that challenged Trump have been cast out from the party in a manner that should make everyone, whatever their political persuasion, really concerned for the future of the country. Images of attendees at his recent rallies holding a single stiff right arm upward in solute should be very chilling to everyone, irrespective of the level of interest they have in current affairs or politics.
The treatment of Colin Kaepernick has long been evidence of the prejudicial and continued racist views of the American right, the reaction to the uncovering of that Trump's buddy, Brett Favre did (with political support) to the poorest people in his state, by comparison, is as sickening as it is unsurprising.
In the UK, the debasement of the office of Prime Minister who should have been removed from office for any number of actions and positions over the last 2 years finally resigned. Though not before he abandoned any semblance of duty when disappearing for the last 3 months of his role while the UK floundered in a literal sea of **** and sky rocketing energy bills. And look at what the last week has brought. His replacement has within her first month of office introduced wildly disproportionate tax cuts benefitting first and foremost the richest and also refusing to apply windfall taxes on companies simultaneously making record products and forcing increased energy costs on people. All of this was cheered by Brexit advocates who continue to ignore the reality of the failure that that action was and continues to be. The fact that beaches all around the UK are covered in sewerage and banker bonus caps in London are now being removed are a direct consequence of the removal of EU regulation which was one of the driving motivations of the wealthy right wing individuals who helped ensure Brexit was voted for. And the fact that many who are in power in the UK literally betted on the pound losing value, as it has done, should be enough evidence that people with this mindset are only focused on enriching and empowering those closed to them should be enough to bring about the collapse of the current Government or to justify calls for a general strike. The UK has gone from the pound being at its highest value against the Dollar when Labour were last in charge to its lowest value in close to 50 years and the emergence of food banks all over the UK in the 12 years the right has been in power there. Shame on everyone involved and those that continue to vote for this.
Beyond the UK, Putin, the darling of both the US and UK Conservative right, continues to inflict suffering, hardship and death on the people of Ukraine, and increasingly also his own people, as they suffer from restrictions, sanctions and now, further mobilization to go fight his war. Elsewhere in Russia, today, a Nazi emblazoned individual carried out mass killings at a school.
In Iran, women are literally being killed for wanting to exercise their own autonomy in the simple act of how they cover, or show their hair.
And the entire world continues to see the disastrous consequence of the refusal to enact meaningful action to slow the halt of damage being done as a consequence of fossil fuels as millions of people suffer, thousands die as a consequence of severe events and literally the entire planet is being forced to deal with the detrimental practices of profiteering industries and their friends in both elected power positions, and influential media positions.
And unfortunately, recent elections in Sweden and Italy show how the world is going to to continue to move towards a practice of isolationism, regressiveness and acrimony and will have to suffer the consequences that are likely to come from that.
I've never pretended people on the Left are perfect, or ideal, or anything close to that. But I felt very strongly before I started this thread just where the dangers to our society were coming from and unfortunately the last six months have given several irrefutable examples of just how correct I (and others) were in saying that and it continues to need to be said. Those who spend their time arguing against this position should consider how their children or grandchildren would feel about them doing so.
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Wow, what a diatribe.
There's a temptation to say; TLDR but a more honest approach would be to say that you continue to see everything through the lens of your own personal belief system without any pause for thought and without any rationality.
At this stage you'd be better off with a blog because there's no room for debate with someone who refuses to even contemplate a different opinion to such an extent that literally everything wrong in the world is the fault of some nebulous group of people who are a convenient bogey man to project blame for absolutely everything onto.
Glazers Out!
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Lol. Pretty much exactly what I expected.
It was the same 6 months ago and once again, all you can do is attack the messenger. Plus la change....
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Everyone who posts here on these topics has their minds firmly made up. Do you genuinely think that people are changing their minds because of posts on here? lol. None of the anti immigrant posters will ever budge and the same for the posters on the opposite side. Why criticise one side and not the other? Because you're on one side and criticising the other side. I mean, it's like clockwork. I know your what your reply will be.
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'Why criticise one side and not the other?'
Because one side is literally making the world a worse place. Or go ahead and give me comparable examples of those in my post of how groups from the left are actively seeking to do so as a matter of policy.
I'm not posting here to make people change their minds, I'm posting so other readers can see a different viewpoint.
You're relatively new to Boards, (or so it seems) so maybe you haven't noticed the plethora of threads that appear on here on a frequent basis, lamenting anything that could be deemed as progressive or liberal. There's one major difference between those threads and this one here. Those threads talk about perceived or inconsequential suffering, for the most part, as you can see from what I've laid out here. The impact of right wing ideals is vastly more consequential in the world we currently live in.
When I started this thread, no one was able to counter any of the examples of right wing acts that were bad for society. It was just the usual trite dismissal as we see here again.
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The left is doing just as much harm. Open borders and come all attitude. They don't seem to realise that it drives down wages and creates competition for resources that are scares already here. What do you think happens to their homeland when tones leave ? I tell you what despotic regimes continue to thrive instead of being ousted. Our money would be well better spent in making their home countries better places to live. Then you have on the flip side people coming from countries that hate each other not leaving that behind. I assimilated into Irish culture. Sure I'm a White European but from a different culture. I have assimilated to such an extent when I have gone home it felt alien and wanted to return to Ireland. They may be not dropping bombs the left but there doing equal damage economically. Trying to attract the best and brightest from one place to come here. We have best and Brightest already due to really good education.
What actually is meant best and cheapest. Again what happens to their home countries when you take all the doctors and engineers away ? You basically impoverish them even more and create more hardship. They should be at home solving their own issues like we did. It's basically a wealth extraction via taking the most precious resource people.
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It's quite funny, when you go through the list of dictatorships in the world today, you'd be hard pressed to find right wing ones, it's all communists and muslim theocracies
But don't forget people, the dangers from the right
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or that the far right online is being exposed as state agencies masquerading as far right terror groups
see various fbi/cia efforts and this week the expose in germany on their secret service running these.
but yeah...the far right.....
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The narcissism required to write that is astonishing.
There's no nuance with you, anything bad is driven by "the right" anything bad the left ever did in history was really "the right".
This is the problem with this type of world view, people like you on either side of this divide only see problems with the other side. It's astonishing that an adult can have such a simplistic view of the world.
Glazers Out!
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You always claim you are not on a side but always always defend far right and criticise left 😶 and then criticise those who take a side 😶
It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Terry Pratchet
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I end up criticizing the left because the left have a large vocal support base in this site who state their beliefs as fact.
I'm every bit as opposed to the far right as the far left, there just isn't much opportunity to deal with any actual far right people on this site. Which in the minds of the lefties of Boards makes me a far right fascist loony.
Glazers Out!
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I'm every bit as opposed to the far right as the far left, there just isn't much opportunity to deal with any actual far right people on this site.
Are you for real? I haven't been on the site much over the last 6 months or so and part of the reason I pulled away from it was because so much of the content was of a right wing nature.
There were weekly threads on here decrying any sort of progressive ideal and even today it seems some of the more active threads on the CA forum are of that nature with one thread specifically lauding the 'pushback against the left' as well as others previously heavily active threads focused on multiculturalism and one started by a mod no less which was just a punch bag for immigration in Sweden.
And before you or anyone else tries to claim that I am calling the people who started these threads Nazi's or fascists or directly comparable to some of the most ignorant and appalling groups the world has experienced. I haven't done that (although some contributors do fall in to that category from time to time). But they are very much right wing in nature and they have made themselves quite comfortable here and have been supported in doing so.
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