You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

Overheal · 30-10-2022 7:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812908#Comment_119812908

I couldn't pay Reuters if I tried - make sure what you're looking at is actually a paywall :p

Tonesjones · 30-10-2022 7:46pm

When talking about the Brazilian election you only talk of the negativity of Bolsanaro but you never mentioned anything about all of the corruption when Da Silva was president.

I don't like that kind of one siding

Tell me how · 30-10-2022 7:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812990#Comment_119812990

Because Bolsanaro is the one in power. I didn't start this thread when Lula was, nor do I need to qualify every left wing or leaning politician everywhere now or in the past before I correctly identify the attitude, behavior and impact of those on the right who are actively in a position that affects people.

When people on the Left said they weren't happy that Biden didn't do more sooner during 2021, it was used as an argument by those on the right to say that these people regretted voting for him. That wasn't the case, it was holding him to account the way politicians should be held to account rather than the flag wearing 'MAGA-till-I-die' people on the other side. Now because I am focusing on the real and present dangers that exist, I feel that most who talk about 'both sides' only want to dilute what I am saying about the right. Not saying you are doing this, just it's a sense I have.

Tonesjones · 30-10-2022 8:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813030#Comment_119813030

I think I understand. This thread is just for criticism of leaders and individuals on the right.

I should have known by the title.

Tell me how · 30-10-2022 8:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813057#Comment_119813057

Clearly you don't.

But if it makes it easier than trying to challenge the premise, go ahead and tell yourself whatever works for you.

Or maybe just admit you're in the category of those looking to dilute what it is being highlighted about the impact of right wing practices.

Overheal · 30-10-2022 8:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812990#Comment_119812990

The current affair is not the Da Silva presidency it's this election.

Tonesjones · 30-10-2022 8:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813062#Comment_119813062

You need to change the thread title then.

30-10-2022 8:21pm

The irony of this thread is that the rise of sometimes unpleasant forces from the right is partly a reaction against what the far-left have attempted to impose in recent years.

There is one glaring consistency between both the far-right and the far-left: that their adherents are indebted to their own extreme ideology - both care little for evidence and science - and both sides wish to impose their version of society onto everyone else.

Everyone in the middle, ordinary decent people, are too busy paying bills and actually developing a real life for themselves.

The problem isn't the far-right; the problem is extremism itself - and that exists on both sides of the spectrum.

The fact that this thread exists only to focus on one side of the extremism problem demonstrates the problem itself.

Tell me how · 30-10-2022 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813072#Comment_119813072

Nah. It's still at the point of gaining relevancy, I'm really looking forward to changing it.

Tell me how · 30-10-2022 8:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813118#Comment_119813118

We've already had the 'extremists on both sides' debate on here. It didn't last long.

Go ahead and read the thread to see how it went but in the mean time, you can maybe answer this. Do you think that what people are struggling with today in terms of access to housing in Ireland, declining health system and sewage being pumped in to the see in the UK (not to mention the impacts of Brexit), loss of reproductive rights in the UK and global cost of living and environmental crises are the outcome of extremists in power? Or are they the outcome of what you would class as people in the middle, ordinary decent people voting in people in power who have governed in such a way that this is what people must now deal with.

Because either the problem isn't just extremists or its the cause of the people who are influencing policy today. But whether it is Brexit in the UK, war in Ukraine, removing access to abortion in the US, silencing journalists in Saudi Arabia, forcing women to cover their hair in Iran, destroying the Amazon in Brazil all of these scenarios are either direct outcomes of right wing policy or right wing ideology says that there should be no attempt to affect them.

But given the focus that you and others have on the thread title, aside from correctly identifying the root cause of many of todays issues, it also points to the wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes on here about anything that the Daily Mail or Fox News has deemed liberal. The snowflakes have truly revealed themselves.

30-10-2022 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813258#Comment_119813258

First of all, stop framing every political question as right-wing extremism, or somehow a product of far-right politics.

You mentioned Brexit, but that was a question that traversed the spectrum. Figures on both left and right opted to Brexit. Similarly, figures left and right opted to remain within the EU. Brexit itself is not far-right extremism.

You mentioned loss of reproductive rights in the US. I'm personally not in favour of that, but you have misrepresented the situation. The rights are determined at the state level. So some states may approve, other states may not. Again, it's not something I favour but I wouldn't refer to people who oppose the concept of abortion as far-right extremists. I'm uncomfortable with abortion, but I wouldn't outlaw it. There are grey areas here.

There is a tendency from some on the left to frame everything as far-right extremism and fascism.

If you are looking - genuinely looking - for common ground, you must stop with this kind of false association.

And yes, extremism exists on both sides. That is undeniable.

Annasopra · 30-10-2022 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806869#Comment_119806869

Asks questions then dismisses

Tell me how · 30-10-2022 9:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813288#Comment_119813288

First of all, stop framing every political question as right-wing extremism, or somehow a product of far-right politics.

You're the one talking about extremism and the far right. Maybe have a look at your framing instead of projecting or strawmanning or whatever it is you are doing.

Brexit itself is not far-right extremism.

Again, 'far right' is your statement. My statement is that Brexit would not have happened without the influence of Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Rupert Murdoch and others. All of who have right wing ideologies.

The rights are determined at the state level.

By uber-GOP officials.

There is a tendency from some on the left to frame everything as far-right extremism and fascism.

Again, you're the one who has done that here. Read my arguments and respond, or don't. Now, that being said, we are seeing more and more elements emerge that do belong in the Far-right extremism and fascism categories. A likely attempted assassination attempt on Democrat Speaker of the house, convictions for plans to kill a Democrat Governor, prison sentences for taking part in an insurrection attempting to prevent the appointment of a duly elected Democrat President, investigations in to acts of Espionage possibly involving Top Secret documents on state securities by a Republican former President, blatant anti-Semitism by someone a friend of that same former President, the spreading of Republican conspiracy theories by the owner of the worlds biggest social media talk-space and the attempt control of educational topics by Republican Governors, the trafficing of people by a Republican Governor to try to make a political point and the use of Nazi symbols and imagery in more and more public spaces.

Things aren't as extreme in Ireland or the UK (though heading in that direction with the likes of the cut down on protests and plans to deport people to Kenya rather than given them asylum) , they are more so in Hungary, Russia, Iran and elsewhere but there is a lot happening which is very sinister.

30-10-2022 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813353#Comment_119813353

You're cherry picking events, lumping them together, and arriving at - ironically - extreme conclusions. As you did in your OP.

I could do the same cherry picking on the other side.

Nobody is saying right-wing extremism doesn't exist. Nobody is saying fascism doesn't exist.

But your conclusions do not exist.

30-10-2022 9:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813417#Comment_119813417

Funny that the OP mentioned Russia, a defining feature of his entire argument, but didn't say a word about China - or rather, the Marxist-Leninist People's Republic of China - which is set to become the foremost global superpower; a regime already engaging in absolute authoritarianism in the name of socialism, and who are engaging in a racist genocide against the Uighur population. And that's without saying a word about the threat of WWIII through the constant threat against the population of Taiwan.

We know the rest.

But not a word from him in his OP. Not a peep. Nothing.

I wonder why...

Nah, we know why. It's because this entire thread is his argument against right-wing politics in general. Referring to the most extreme figures on the planet is simply a means to dismiss conservatism as a concept itself - tarring by association.

It's abundantly clear.

30-10-2022 9:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813501#Comment_119813501

Many left-wing activists are satiated by a diet of division and hate; hate against their political opponents. Often for the temerity of having a perfectly respectable opinion.

Many on the right are content, and want to have a healthy debate with them.

But many on the left have made up their minds.

And associating the right with Putin and some nutjob in Brazil is just a lazy attempt to smear common sense conservatives.

Tell me how · 30-10-2022 9:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813417#Comment_119813417

Is it ok if I don't agree with you? I mean, you make a very compelling argument, it's well structured, contains reams of evidence and analysis, but even so, I'm just not sure.

I mean, the human race has lived in societies that have trended towards more inclusivity, understanding and compassion towards others and has been supported with things like the fight against slavery, the granting of human rights, equal access to voting, to the right to vote, access to education and more recently, and increasingly equal opportunities in the workplace. Minimum wage, work place regulations, 40 hour working week, paid holidays, sick pay, health and safety regulation, social benefit schemes etc etc etc all left wing initiatives have all been introduced to improve the lives of everyone in society.

And many of them were challenged vociferously by right wing ideologues who were affronted that they might have to lose money just so as to make life better for someone else. In the last ten years, right wing ideologies have facilitated the massive increase in wealth of individuals such as Musk (increased net worth 100 times over) Jeff Bezos (increased 7 times over) and in the UK, the net worth of the 250 wealthiest individuals increased from under 50B to over 650B in about the same time.

And while this has happened, in the US, minimum wage has stayed at $7.25 throughout the entirety of that time and in the UK foodbanks went from just 35 in 2010 to over 1300 ten years later.

There's even a humorous example of just how wrong your post is given the Left Wing/Right Wing identifiers for Political ideologies originated out of the French Revolution when supporters of the King lined up on his right, those against on his left. Which side failed utterly in that event can you remind me?

Tell me how · 30-10-2022 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813448#Comment_119813448

You really should read the thread, the rest of us don't repeat the same points every couple of days.

Or maybe you are yet to realise there's more pages to a thread than the one you are on.

30-10-2022 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813543#Comment_119813543

Nothing then, okay.

Tell me how · 30-10-2022 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813525#Comment_119813525

I can't help but read your posts in Tucker Carlsons voice. They read almost word for word like one of his monologues.

I'm probably not going to reply to all of them, they bear no relationship with reality. If they did, we wouldn't have the right in the UK banning protests or the right in the US banning books from schools and libraries.

Tell me how · 30-10-2022 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813546#Comment_119813546

Said and posted. I'm not here to save you time.

30-10-2022 10:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813547#Comment_119813547

Why did your OP refer to Russian nationalism and not to Marxist-Leninist China?

You had a choice, but opted only to refer to Vladimir Putin's mad adventure in Ukraine.

Tell me how · 30-10-2022 10:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813567#Comment_119813567

Because Russia has invaded Ukraine leading to energy concerns, security concerns and conversations about the impact of Ukrainian migrants throughout Europe.

We have threads on here specifically talking about these things. Not so on China, and we in the 'West' where the vast majority of boards users reside, do not experience the impact of Chinese governmental policy in anything like the same way.

But let's be clear, I am not suggesting that the Chinese government is perfect or anything close to it. They fall in to the category of extremists you guys are quick to mention. The fault with Left wing ideals is more so the case that it can leave the door open for these extremists to emerge (as the author of the byline in your signature showcased) than it is a direct endpoint of the ideal in and of itself.

My concerns about right wing practices is that the subservience by many on the right has facilitated the growing tide of extremism and many things that are increasingly harmful if not yet at that level of categorization.

30-10-2022 10:50pm

But let's be clear, I am not suggesting that the Chinese government is perfect or anything close to it. They fall in to the category of extremists you guys are quick to mention.

Note how light on criticism your language becomes, almost as if you're offering a Google review on a local restaurant.