You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

Jack Daw

Violent Protests from the Left in Peru

https://news.sky.com/story/peru-closes-machu-picchu-amid-violent-protests-against-president-dina-boluartes-government-12792386

But of course it's only right wingers who engage in violent protests according to the opening poster.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120147888#Comment_120147888

Except the OP didn't say anything like that though did it?

And since then I've repeatedly stated that I'm not saying, nor has anyone else on here stated, that everyone on the Left now or historically (which is all some people want to focus on) are perfect.

I've made two key points in the OP and those are that A, most of the demonstrably impactful things that most people who use Boards have to experience in recent history, the present and likely in to the near future are the outcome of, or have been significantly prolonged or exacerbated by a right wing mindset. What was particularly relevant for this platform given what had been going on for the last number of years, was to point out how people had been spending so much time getting outraged at comparatively inconsequential things and that this wasn't an accident but instead allowed to deflect focus from the real issues.

We are several months in to the thread (although it was dormant for a number of months) and over 2300 posts and no one has really countered either what the most impactful events that concerns us are; Brexit, Covid medical science denial, loss of health care (specific treatments in US, overall system structure in UK), the War in Ukraine, the climate and environment issue, standards of living such as Housing costs etc or that they aren't massively influenced by the right wing. We have had people claim Putin is Left Wing, Brexit is Left wing, neither argument that stands up to any sort of scrutiny.

And here are you, with the same tired old tactic of arguing against something, that no one has said.

Cordell

We have had people claim Putin is Left Wing, Brexit is Left wing

They are neither left nor right, although Putin is an evil tyrant coming from a far left background. You are very persistent in ignoring history and that's the reason you seem ignorant of the fact that there is very hard to discern between far left and far right. The whole Brexit justification of keeping the independence from imperialistic EU was a common theme of the pre 90s far left regimes in Eastern Europe - if you weren't so keen of dismissing recent history you would have recognized it for what it was.

And also I have no problem to admit that what's passing today as right wing conservative politicians are too often just populist grifters. And that's the real danger, we need both right and left in a healthy society.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149679#Comment_120149679

you seem ignorant of the fact that there is very hard to discern between far left and far right.

I've spent the last few years watching people launch thread after thread on here decrying 'The Left' and getting outraged about a myriad of topics without any declaration then to this effect.

We've seen Jeremy Clarkson in the recent days/weeks decrying 'The Left', leading figures in the UK government including Johnson specifically used the term when complaining about various things, including lawyers fighting for peoples rights. Trump and several other 'leading lights' in the Republican party in the US frequently use the term to talk about the ills in society from their perspective. Several prominent and influential media outlets refer to the Left ad nausem so it's not only appropriate to talk about 'The Right' as is being done here.

I'm well aware of the resistance towards Europe historically from the Left, but that has long shifted to some degree, see Sinn Fein's position over the years for example. But that aside, Brexit would not have got over the line but for the Right Wing UKIP party threatening the Right Wing Conservatives and the Right Wing Media calling for it and the Right wing Russian Troll farms pushing for it via Facebook and other locations.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149679#Comment_120149679

They're both right wing. The fact that you have follow up your argument with pre-emptive insults suggests that you don't have one.

HalloweenJack

You have to join the EU and you can leave (as the UK did). Empires conquered other countries and there was usually a lot of bloodshed involved if you wanted/managed to leave. People tend to be in favour of democratically participating in a larger entity as opposed to being submitted to its rule.

Any rhetoric comparing the EU to an empire on that point is grossly misinformed.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149928#Comment_120149928

Putin is not right wing. Both right and left wing values include freedom and democracy. Putin was a member of the communist party and KGB and now he jumped to the far right. And it was a very small jump, for both him and Russia. There is nothing right about him :)

One of the biggest mistake of the free western world in the 90s was that it didn't hold an equivalent of the Nurnberg trials for the communist leaders and their actions. Maybe this would have prevented this willing ignorance of the dangers of the far left.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150057#Comment_120150057

This means absolutely nothing. Putin is right wing and matches what the right in other countries actively support: Undermining democracy, corruption and even outright fascism in some cases. If you have to reach back literal decades to show he was in a party, membership or which was a pre-requisite for getting ahead then your point is incredibly weak.

Ditto for the standard whataboutery.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150078#Comment_120150078

Putin is now far right. "Undermining democracy, corruption and even outright fascism in some cases" - things that far right, and far left, usually do. It's a bit strange that you seem to be able to see the difference between far left and democratic left, but you can't see the same about far right and right.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150078#Comment_120150078

None of the issies you're outlining are exclusively right wing and never have been.

This argument has been going on here on and off for ages now.

Far left and far right regimes tend to do very similar things and observing a far left regimes actions and describing them as far right demonstrates a lack of understanding that should preclude you from participating in any serious discussion of the topic.

Extremism is the enemy, left or right wing extremism result in largely the same outcomes and that has been evident throughout history.

The real issue on this thread is people entrenched in their views wanting to blame the other side for all the ills in the world and that's just pathetic.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150057#Comment_120150057

'There is nothing right about him'

Explain so how all his influential or significant admirers over the last few years are unashamedly right wing. Donald Trump, Nigel Farage, Fox News, Boris Johnson, Viktor Orban, Bolsanaro, LePen etc.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150105#Comment_120150105

More tedious whataboutery. The far left aren't a threat simply because they hate each other more than anyone else. Plenty on the right are more than happy to support the far right by contrast.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150123#Comment_120150123

Once again, this isn't just about extremes.

As posted earlier; Brexit, Covid medical science denial, loss of health care (specific treatments in US, overall system structure in UK), the War in Ukraine, the climate and environment issue, standards of living such as Housing costs etc or that they aren't massively influenced by the right wing.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150132#Comment_120150132

This is a longer discussion, but it has nothing to do with any ideological alignment. Short version is that the only reason russians support them is because they are divisive, this is a subversive tactic russia employed to weaken the west since forever. They seek to create polarization and division, not to further a particular ideology, because any ideology will do.

KGB defector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov reveals some of this, of course, to the extent you can trust a KGB defector. Interesting watch, if you like recent history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw

nullzero

Maybe this will break down the prevailing logic of this thread;

1. OP and chums assign all negativity in the world to the right wing.
2. Anyone arguing against that from a centrist perspective is labeled as right wing, particularly when they state they are not right wing because saying you're not right wing means you actually are right wing it would appear.
3. All communist regimes that currently exist in the world are actually right wing because bad things happen in those regimes so naturally they're really right wing and not communist as they claim to be.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150196#Comment_120150196

I was referring to the fact that they support him rather than him supporting them.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150215#Comment_120150215

Of course they support him, he owns them.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150213#Comment_120150213

All this shows us, again, is that you can't read a post and comprehend what is being said.

All this focus on extremes and declaring (laughably) that you are arguing from a centrist position is telling us that you yourself know that you don't like the idea of defending the right wing because it has been made pretty clear how negatively impactful it continues to be.

Its pretty interesting to see posters who spent literal years on here (across various accounts) complaining incessantly about the left to now wanting to 'both sides' the discussion.

Says a lot about an ideology when people don't want to be seen to support it, doesn't it.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150253#Comment_120150253

When you say I can't comprehend what is being said I'm assuming you mean that I'm irritating you by not accepting what you say at face value.

It's notable that you feel the need to resort to ad hominems to hammer your point home.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150286#Comment_120150286

Not at all

• You say 'OP and chums assign all negativity in the world to the right wing.' Nope, not even close.
• You claim to be a centrist, you clearly are not.
• You talk about communist regimes that aren't such, and those that don't significantly impact the vast majority of people who participate on this platform.

It's not ad hominem when you continue to do the above despite the OP or my posts since.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150343#Comment_120150343

Your thread title states "the dangers are coming from the right" it also states "you've been looking in the wrong direction"

This suggests the right is where all the ills of the world are coming from (your posting on thread further qualifies this statement) you also state that the reader has been looking in the wrong direction whilst the right has been consolidating its power so to speak and now you are here to alert everyone.

If you could provide real evidence that supports your assertion that I am not centrist it would be wonderful.

Am I correct is saying that you now accept the existence of communist regimes but do not feel they are important to people on this platform?

By that logic your points about the far right have no validity either as far right political movements are not a real issue in Ireland (the National Party are a joke and the other associated groups are laughably inept).

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150374#Comment_120150374

For the love of God, stop focusing on the 'far' right, I didn't mention it once in the OP and while it exists and overlaps, this isn't a conversation about extremes. Or do you think the Conservative positions (US and UK) on climate, healthcare, science etc are far right in ideology? If so, do you still think you are a centrist?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150459#Comment_120150459

Are you suggesting that the centre right is where all the dangers are coming from now?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150556#Comment_120150556

Another thing I haven't said.

Cordell

Centre right is the one proposing measures that will alleviate the effects of the climate change without taxing ourselves into energy and food poverty, but no one listens to them. The only voices being heard today are the ones who claim we can tax climate change into non-existence, and the ones who claim that we can pretend it doesn't exist. Both left and right, both centre and radical, are equally guilty of perverting science.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150567#Comment_120150567

Break down the right for me then.

I'm guessing you see it something like this;

1. Centre right.
2. The right.
3. Far right.

Am I... Correct?

It's a bit confusing, if you could clear it up that'd be great.

Also if you could clarify the direction (described by your thread title as the wrong direction) that everyone seems to have been looking it'd be fantastic as well.

Thanks in advance.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150581#Comment_120150581

Typical nonsense argument with the obligatory "Both sides". You can't even name a single centre-right leader I notice.

Nobody wants to tax anyone into poverty to fix climate change. Feel free to provide a source but we both know this isn't true. The right deny climate change much of the time because it's easier to keep funneling money into the pockets of their dirty pals.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150783#Comment_120150783

You can't even name a single centre-right leader I notice.

I can't, that's fair. And that's also what I think it's the biggest danger, the devolution of the right into this cartoonish populist bunch of today.

Nobody wants to tax anyone into poverty to fix climate change

Carbon tax and various other fuel taxes, including taxing it as a luxury, it's the left "solution" to climate change. More than half of the fuel prices are taxes. And guess what, it affects everything from food to clothes. But it's only applied in the developed countries who contribute fk all to the climate change.

keep funneling money into the pockets of their dirty pals.

Are you talking about carbon certificates trading?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150967#Comment_120150967

Unfortunately, we've found previously that it takes hitting people in the pocket to motivate them to make changes. Plastic bag tax for example. That was and is the intent with carbon taxes also but unfortunately, in many cases (not all) we're not seeing the willingness to change.

Look at any thread on here or discussion about reducing single occupant car use and see just how hesitant people are to the idea of not having their own car. Proposals for cycling routes and greenways and bus routes etc are often announced, but not always delivered as special interests kick in to slow down the necessary changes.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150967#Comment_120150967

This is a rather silly strawman based on absolutely nothing, let's be honest.

You know full well the sort of right wing kleptocratic nonsense I am referring to.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120151240#Comment_120151240

Yes, that's what I'm talking about: the left is hell bent on doing things that don't have any real impact, hurt people that are not responsible for the problem, all just to give them something to feel good about. Ireland's share is 0.11%, no one cares, not going to make a bit of a difference, but still its people pay 2x as much as they need to pay to keep their home warm.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120151576#Comment_120151576

Irelands share shouldn't come in to it.

Throughout all of society, we expect people to do things that are to promote the right practice and ideals more so than saying everyone can be instructed differently based on their circumstances.

The impact of 50mg Blood Alcohol Content is different on different people, but its not possible to legislate for each individual or for other metrics that might or might not be relevant.

If one person is fly tipping on the side of the road, we still don't accept that it is ok for the next person to throw the wrapper from their lunch sandwich on the ground also.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Irelands practice of encouraging better behaviours is perfect, far from it, but again we have evidence that once there is a financial cost, people are much more likely to change their behaviour.

And if we look at this in the context of Left/Right positions, then at least the Left is advocating for the need for change where as the Right is still largely denying there is an issue.

Cordell

Well it does come into it because we're paying for it.

chopperbyrne

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/transgender-double-rapist-sent-womens-29037748

A rapist being sent to a women's prison, because he now identifies as a woman.

All came from left wing politics.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120155577#Comment_120155577

Link dump from the Daily Express and a snarky comment. No thanks.

chopperbyrne

Refusing to engage, and a snarky comment.

Typical from you.

Rothko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150213#Comment_120150213

Sums up the thread perfectly.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120155685#Comment_120155685

Engaging with whataboutery is a complete waste of time in fairness.

chopperbyrne

The thread is about ignoring dangers coming from the left, and only focus on dangers coming from the right. It's a batshit take.

But when someone shows something dangerous that came out of left wing politics, you instantly dismiss it.

There's all kinds of dangers coming from the right, which you won't find me dismissing.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120155722#Comment_120155722

You didn't show anything. You just dumped a link from a trash tabloid and made a snide comment in an effort to derail the thread.

I'm not interested in indulging this petty derailing tactic any more.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144203#Comment_120144203

Yes, they were common criminals who burgled a business.

There is nothing in your link to connect them with the far right.

chopperbyrne

Does the BBC meet your esteemed criteria for sources?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-64388669

Complete head in the sand attitude.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120155722#Comment_120155722

I'm the OP so I know better than anyone what the thread is about.

No one, literally no one, has said that the dangers of the left should be ignored.

The premise of the discussion was that so many events affecting a large number of people in society stem from right-wing philosophies, either directly or by making them largely uncontrollable or limited. The point of the thread's title, referring to a particular direction as the OP pointed out, was referring to the practice on this platform of so many people constantly ranting against issues from the left, while emphasizing that the most impactful issues are continually virtually ignored.

You can point out this issue you've highlighted, but it's not necessarily an issue yet, as this person hasn't done anything unacceptable since his conviction, (I understand?). It could, it will certainly become a problem at some point in some instance. But every day people (of both sexes) get raped in prison, it's a crime, it's horrific, and it's probably terrifying to those who think they could experience it. If you want to talk about the likelihood of this happening, we can talk about whether it is more likely to be the case from someone as in the story you introduced, or someone who has been incarcerated for an extended period because of draconian practices in detaining people before trial or being imprisoned for longer periods as both happen in the US.

It is not as big a problem as those mentioned repeatedly in the OP, in terms of its broad impact on our society and looked at as an individual instance (leaving aside that nothing has actually happened with respect to this individual yet) it still is likely to only ever be a factor in a small percentage of the number of times this particular crime is committed.

Your post is relevant in that it shows how you have either misinterpreted the OP or think this (non-crime event you have mentioned) is comparable to the issues from the right listed previously.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120155742#Comment_120155742

There have been plenty of links dumped which support the notion of "dangers coming from the right" as teed up by this thread, I'm assuming you take issue with those also.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120155722#Comment_120155722

"The thread is about ignoring dangers coming from the left, and only focus on dangers coming from the right. It's a batshit take."

were there not enough trans threads for your batshit contribution?

Danzy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/25/holocaust-suffering-exaggerated-say-quarter-young-dutch-people/

25% of young Dutch people think that the Holocaust was exaggerated.

There is danger from the Left and it is insidiously growing again.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159547#Comment_120159547

Holocaust denial comes from the right, swathes of which have openly embraced Nazism.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159601#Comment_120159601

It used to, 30+ years ago.

Now Anti Semitism in Europe is dominated by the Left and Islamist thought. This is hardly a controversial opinion.

https://jcpa.org/mission-impossible-repairing-the-ties-between-europe-and-israel/anti-semitism-in-europe-today-comes-mostly-from-the-left/

It comes from a rich vein and long tradition in the left of it but one that was usually not indulged by leadership of such parties, movement etc in fairness to them. That is a different time though.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159625#Comment_120159625

Still does. Some random opinion piece from a dodgy-looking site doesn't change that.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159601#Comment_120159601

It comes from both, traditionally from the far right indeed, but the import of non european far right minded people who hate jews to death is also a big part of the problem. And also the main stream media and left leaning politicians position on the Israel-Palestine conflict.