You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047645#Comment_120047645

Ah no I get the numbers and it's clear huge parts of the world live in really unstable political system but we have become accustomed to there being very little violence associated with politics in the West.

Given the abject state of political discourse in the USA a move towards increasing political violence should be very carefully monitored.

The numbers for attacks in the worst effected countries are nuts though.

francois

Culture wars are all the right have left to throw red meat to the base. It's so glaringly obvious a distraction, meanwhile nobody under 40 gives 2 hoots about drag queens telling stories.

Some commenters here need to chat with a few 20 somethings.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120045637#Comment_120045637

The problem is you conflate sexual orientation with gender identity. They are both entirely different.

I conflate? Of course they are entirely different so why are those human characteristics conflated via the LGBT acronym. Bizarre to blame me for the conflation when I'm been arguing to completely separate the LGB from the T, and the plus as well.

A man coming out as a straight trans woman is not a gay man and not automatically a perverted fetishist. The other problem is that you view all trans people as deviants and fetishists. They are your views and your problems.

I never did any such thing. All I've done is highlight the 'diverse' demographics that are out there, some of which I don't want to be associated with via an acronym+

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120045880#Comment_120045880

What do you mean by putting homosexual in quotations marks.

I never blamed the Left for everything so I don't know what you're on about.

And I'm not coming from 'another right wing stance', I'm coming at this purely from the interests of the gay men demographic that is apolitical.

Clearly you cant get that because of your everything is either Left or Right mindset.

People like you have no upstanding that some have views that aren't Left or Right wing orientated.

Sane people like see the extremes of both the Right and Left and it just so happens the Left have lost their minds on identity issues of late, that's where I'm coming from.

Oh and btw, your example of the 50's could equally be mirrored by today's extremes from the Left of the promotion of gender reassignment surgery especially in respect of youngsters where people are beginning to cotton on that this is just sick and based on total nonsense.

Faugheen

https://youtu.be/U26-D-7Ey2w

Just going to post this again since there are some people in here who might have missed it before.

Basically the 'culture wars' are a completely made up phenomenon by right-wing media to make sure you are all outraged.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120048638#Comment_120048638

"People like you have no upstanding that some have views that aren't Left or Right wing orientated."

I listened to an interesting podcast lately on the way in which politics is discussed online. The take away was people who belong to a group or online/social media community, irrespective of where they are on political spectrum, will stay with their "side" no matter where the group goes.

Moderate views on any particular topic aren't welcome and get turned on. People won't pay the social price of disagreeing with group.

You don't have to look far on any side to see that.

nullzero

We have Communist North Korea testing missiles, Communist China cosying up to Russia who are engaged in a war in Ukraine waged by their dyed in the wool Soviet despotic president for life who has the brought the world closer to nuclear annihilation than at any point since the Cuban missile crisis and the consensus here remains that the biggest threat to the world is coming from the right which largely consists of rabbles of morons who have no actual power to do anything.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120050284#Comment_120050284

100% Spot on

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120050284#Comment_120050284

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120050672#Comment_120050672

That's it lads, keep going with this nonsense. Just posting it is better than ye saying nothing because it shows this is all ye have.

The American right fell over itself in support of Putin and he of course was BFF with Kim Jong Un. Ye are clutching at straws to claim either country is in any way Left wing.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051173#Comment_120051173

You're entire argument is Everything Supposedly Right Wing = Bad, Everything Supposedly Left Wing = Good.

It's a completely nonsense argument but you've spent hundreds of post putting it forward over and over again and using any evidence that supports as proof of the truthfulness of your argument and ignoring any evidence that debunks it.

Extremism is the problem, extreme right wing and extreme left wing ideologies are equally dangerous and this has been proven throughout history.There is very little difference between hard right and hard left they start in a different place and then as they progress end up meeting in the same place.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051198#Comment_120051198

Give us some of that debunking evidence when you're ready.

It wasn't just the extremes that promoted Brexit, enabled, selected and empowered Trump, undermined medical science and continues to allow the wilful destruction of the environment.

Or made education so expensive, housing inaccessible or has massive numbers of people in their late 20s and early 30s living with their parents as they can't afford to save for a deposit. Or has destroyed the NHS in the UK and has removed the right for women to control their own bodies in the US.

The extremes exist, they aren't the biggest problem.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051472#Comment_120051472

The Labour Party in the UK and a lot of it's traditional support base were opposed to the EU in principal, the Labour Party in the UK had no official position on joining the EU in the 1970's , the highest rate of voting in favour of brexit was in the North of England which is a traditional Labour Voting area. Jeremy Corbyn was opposed to the EU and part of the reason the remain vote did so badly is that he failed to rally people behind the remain campaign enough because he didn't really believe in it himself.

Housing is inaccessible in Ireland and we have no proper right wing parties in Ireland, it's inaccessible in most places around the world these days, not a right/left issue just a general shitshow of lack of planning by governments regardless of their political allegiances.

Education is not expensive in Ireland expensive education is an American thing which and some of the most expensive places to go to college are hotbeds of leftist sentiments in America.The colleges with their massive endowment could fix the expense of education in America if they wanted but they don't want to.

Trump was largely created by hollywood (which is very left leaning in its politics) , without them thinking he was a great fella over the years he never would have gained the notoriety and celebrity he had .He's just a narcissist who'll say anything to get attention and managed to tap into some general worries people in America had and also faced a really disliked candidate which the democrats were too stupid to accept.He's managed to ruin the republicans in the last election in America.

The same corporations that are advertising themselves as Uber Woke these days are also the coporations that are destroying the environment.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051736#Comment_120051736

Blaming Labour for Brexit as you are doing would be like a 4 yr old spilling milk and blaming his brother for not stopping him. Brexit just, only just, happened because of massive efforts by right wing advocates and darker forces. Some of these people handled the separation negotiation entirely on their own. They conceived this, they gave birth to it, it's 100% their baby.

Ireland's practice of abandoning government provision of housing and allowing hedge funds to hijack and occupy entire developments has happened because of right wing philosophies. We don't have right wing parties in the a me way they do in the US or UK or elsewhere, but that doesn't mean we don't have right wing elements in the context of the Irish political landscape.

The average tuition fee cost in the UK is now 9,250/yr for an undergraduate course. It was only 1k when it was introduced. It's no longer only America where education is expensive. American institutions could lower costs, of course they could, but they are inherently right wing in how they operate their business and looking at the opposition to Bidens debt relief for students, that isn't going to change any time soon.

If you want to talk about Hollywood politics maybe you should consider Ronald Reagan and Arnold Schwarzenegger. Two iconic movie stars before they ventured in to the political area. What parties did they represent when they served as President (two terms) and Governor of California? Yep, Republican. Clinton Eastwood, John Wayne, Charlton Heston were all at the top of the ladder in Hollywood, what Party were they all members of? Yep, Republican again.

There's only a single media entity that can on its own be identified as being responsible for Trump and that is Fox News which can only be identified as very right wing.

As for the corporations advertising themselves as woke, you said it yourself, 'advertising' Coca Cola is the world's biggest producer for plastic drinks bottles and it sponsored COP26 a couple of months back. British cycling is sponsored by Shell Oil. No one who really cares about these things buys their greenwashing as being anything more than what it is. But maybe consider this, why are they advertising themselves as 'woke' in a world where they have Fox News, or the Sun, Daily Mail, Financial times etc etc etc not to mention countless influential commentators who are dismissive of the need for action. Why do you think they still play this game?

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051951#Comment_120051951

Fair enough, more of the right wing bad/left wing good points and no nuance to anything. That's the problem with you, you're just an ideologue rather than accepting there are massive amounts of grey areas in most big issues (as I pointed out above) you don't accept that which is fair enough but you're exactly the problem with modern day discourse, you just view issues like a football fan would view them and say everything my side good everything other side bad.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051951#Comment_120051951

"The average tuition fee cost in the UK is now 9,250/yr for an undergraduate course. It was only 1k when it was introduced. It's no longer only America where education is expensive. American institutions could lower costs, of course they could, but they are inherently right wing in how they operate their business and looking at the opposition to Bidens debt relief for students, that isn't going to change any time soon."

The debt relief is a sticking-plaster on the arterial neck wound that is tuition at Unis and Uni education in the US. The problem is that the Unis are run as rapacious, barely regulated for-profit entities, hiding behind mythology to justify predatory business practices. They don't hire due to merit - they hire via nepotism. Their product is at best, average worldwide and a lot of it is ridiculously poor quality, nor are there any controls.

The debt relief will help out some of their most abused victims, but doesn't solve fundamental structural problems based on a very right-wing business model. They might promote 'liberal discourse,' but when it comes to money, 19th century robber barons would be proud of how they're run. You get a brief taste of some of the backlash against it in the recent strike in the state of California for better compensation and employment rules for university workers, but, that's just one state. There are 49 others all doing their own thing, to the detriment of the employees and to the product they deliver.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052041#Comment_120052041

That's fine, don't answer it.

I've been around here a long time and have no issue calling out issues with politicians to whom I am more closely aligned to.

Did it throughout 2021 when I felt Biden should be doing more. Did it extensively with respect to Corbyn and how failed to provide an alternative to what the Tories are doing.

But as the OP states, we've had no shortage if finger pointing at 'The Left over the last few years whether in media, or by political parties, on social media and an absolute deluge of it on this site for a few years. It was long overdue to bring a bit of reality to the conversation on here.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051173#Comment_120051173

Communist North Korea isn't left wing?

Vladimir Putin, the lifelong Soviet crony turned despotic president for life of Russia formerly the largest communist country in earth who spent decades invading other countries and adding them to their communist empire isn't even a little bit left wing?

Clutching at straws?

Are you seriously trying to condescend to others when you clearly can't comprehend simple self evident truths?

Jack Daw made an excellent point about how right and left wing extremism start in different places but always end up in the same place, that obviously doesn't suit your narrative but that's on you, the facts remain factual regardless of how you may like to twist them.

You have your axe to grind just like any right wing loonies online, neither you nor they should have your opinions taken at face value and its too bad if you don't like level headed centrists calling your opinions out as the misrepresentation of the facts that they are.

ancapailldorcha

It wasn't an excellent point. It's the same tedious both sides argument that gets trotted out again and again by people trying to shut down criticism of the far right.

Putin is a fascist, ie right wing. That should be obvious.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052108#Comment_120052108

Russia and North Korea are dictatorships.

No one serious would pretend otherwise.

Jackdaw attempted to do the same thing others did by talking about extremes, I've clearly pointed out that that is not what is the most impactful force affecting people.

Since this thread started, people who have spent years on here giving out about the Left without anything like the distinct evidence of the impact of that ideology affecting society as has been shown with respect to the right.

That was and is the point to the thread.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052118#Comment_120052118

Your just the same as Tell Me How, your an idealogue who completely ignores any points that conflict with your beliefs.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052118#Comment_120052118

You're assuming that negative traits such as those Putin displays can only be attributed to fascists.

Let's apply Occams razor here, Putin was born raised and assimilated into in the Soviet system, a system which had no interest in human rights or acting in anything resembling a humane manner, he spent his entire life in that system and has been pining for its return since the fall of the Berlin Wall.

According to you this makes him a fascist, you're clearly deluded to believe this but why is that? Simple, you associate negative traits with the right wing and ignore the fact that those traits are inheritanly part of the left wing also.

The only thing that should be obvious on this thread is that there is an enormous cohort of left wing loonies here whose judgement should not be trusted any more than that of right wing loonies.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052201#Comment_120052201

North Korea is a dictatorship, a communist dictatorship. Are you suggesting that the only type of dictatorship is a fascist dictatorship?

"No one serious" would even put that idea forward.

Russia is a dictatorship also, led by a loonie ex soviet whackjob who is somehow seen as a fascist even though he's doing precisely what his soviet forebears did in the name of their extreme left wing communist beliefs.

Somebody on this site told me last year that Soviet Russia only became a bad place for people to live after WW2, completely ignoring the fact that Soviet Russia had been a hell hole since its inception where people had been persecuted from day one.

There's an absolutely bananas notion amongst the modern Western left that communist states were somehow utopian paradises when the opposite is true.

Extremism on the right and the left have been a disaster for hundreds of millions of people but somehow the dehumanisation and mass murder of citizens of communist regimes is being forgiven and increasingly forgotten by the modern left.

The point of your thread is to pontificate about your own warped beliefs and to cry foul of anyone who challenges the obvious problems they present. As with all such threads you just want an echo chamber and react in a horrified manner when someone takes a centrist position on the topic.

I've no time for far right or far left rhetoric, but somehow I'm regularly accused of being right wing by left wing posters, I'm guessing it's because nuance and rational discussion are alien concepts to some left wing posters. Either you toe the line or you're a fascist, which of course is utter nonsense.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052439#Comment_120052439

Do you understand the concept of a discussion Board?

I, as with a post of yours earlier today, frequently respond point by point. So go ahead and counter those, or don't but stop pretending you're being ignored.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052472#Comment_120052472

I've never seen people claim communist states to have been some sort of utopia, and I've spent a lot of time in these discussions.

Haven't seen it either from modern left media.

So have you, with a consistent viewpoint (as have I) so I'm not buying the claim you've 'no time for far right or left rhetoric'.

As for North Korea, and the determination of what type of dictatorship it is, this is the immediate definition returned by Google when comparing communism to fascism.

The communistic ideology aimed for a classless society where the control of production belonged to the state and there is economic equality between individuals. Fascism is a system, that executes strict class roles in society often controlled by a solo dictator.

I've never advocated for communism, or said that there aren't evils carried out in its name but this comparison between the two suggests that 'ideologically' a dictator is a fundamental part of one, but not the other. The once again disappeared poster from this thread who quoted Orwell might be able explain how his book suggested the weakness in the implementation of communism was in the participants rather than the ideology itself.

And again, to ensure there is no confusion, in the thread title, the OP and all my posts since I refer to the dangers from 'the Rights and not the far right. I have never suggested the dangers I listed are more severe than the examples from the extreme but that the negative outcomes of political ideology that affect most of us today, originate in a right wing mindset.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052443#Comment_120052443

Putin can be said to be a fascist because of how he has behaved while in power, not because of being born and raised in a particular location.

Or tell us of his policies and legislation that have advocated for communist ideals while he has been in power.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052443#Comment_120052443

No, I'm not. Ironic and typical that you end up resorting to hysterical insults though.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052670#Comment_120052670

Where's the hysteria exactly?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052641#Comment_120052641

You're confusing theory with practice.

In theory communism sounds fantastic, in practice it has ended up being every bit as horrific as fascism.

Can you cite an example of a communist state that was anything other than a complete and utter failure?

The whole Putin is a fascist thing is lazy and ignores a century of documented evidence that demonstrates that Putin fits right in with the communist ideals of the Soviet Union right down to Russia having a two tiered system with a tiny ultra rich class just like the party elites in the USSR.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120053034#Comment_120053034

In your post above.

Specifically:

The only thing that should be obvious on this thread is that there is an enormous cohort of left wing loonies here whose judgement should not be trusted any more than that of right wing loonies.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120053067#Comment_120053067

You appropriated that as hysteria?

I'm guessing you didn't like being called out (as a left wing loonie) and are attempting to make me look like I'm the one being unreasonable, next time you could try saying "I know you are but what am I?"