Ireland v The Afterpartyers Super Saturday Matchthread

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808342#Comment_118808342

Why are so many of you’re posts so depressingly negative?

We actually played well against England. I suggest you watch it back if you haven’t already. We forced a few passes and got unfairly pinged at scrum time a few times that ultimately led to the scoreboard flattering England. We compounded that with a few silly penalties ourselves. But ultimately England weren’t ever going to score more than 15. If anything they were lucky to get that many points on the board. We were good value for at least a couple of more tries had we maybe not forced a few of those passes. On another day the exact same performances could very easily have led to a 9-50 type score line.

Just look at the stats from the game. The metres made, the line breaks etc etc. You seem happy to just see the bad in performances like that and not the good. And your assertion that had England kept XV on the park that we would have lost is a bizarre one. They got the rub of a few decisions from the ref arguably because they lost a man. Losing a man galvanises a side too in ways that wouldn’t have happened if they stayed at XV. Outside of our game they created all of 2 tries against opponents that were not Italy. We created more tries in Paris than that! They lost to Scotland and barely edged passed Wales. Maybe they might have beaten us, but it’s far from a sure thing. Yet you state it as though it were a given because it helps your negative view of things.

We we’re far from perfect yet we won all of the 4 games we won comfortably. And we had a real shot at beating France too. In November we probably got lucky that teams weren't able to analyse us properly because we hadn’t been playing that style much prior to the series. This Championship was probably about us learning to adapt to teams looking to disrupt us. And there will be plenty to learn from it. We’ve gotten that experience while also coming very close to winning a Championship. That’s a good thing.

We aren’t the finished article yet, but we’re going in the right direction. We’re seeing others calling plays even when Sexton is on the pitch so we are reducing our reliance on him more and more. Sadly there are depth issues that we can do little about in a few positions, including 10. But overall we’re going fine. You’d swear things were going really badly the way you’re going on.

tooka

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808937#Comment_118808937

Name the depth

if Ireland are missing any of furlong, Porter, Henderson , James ryan and beirne we are as good as goosed at the World Cup

that’s how little depth we have

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809173#Comment_118809173

Any team would be goosed missing their best players like that. Stupid argument. Show me a team that's stacked so deeply with world class players.

tooka

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809182#Comment_118809182

France and New Zealand who the quarter final will be against.

the drop off in certain positions is so alarming only the most naive and gullible refuse to see it

there is a possible fix, experimentation

Burkie1203

Backrow carried for ~100m off a combined 26 carries.

Conan had 50m off just 10 carries.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809173#Comment_118809173

We have an issue with depth at 1, 3 and 10. I don’t think we have much of an issue at lock. We have Ryan, Henderson and Beirne with Baird and Kleyn behind them. It will be interesting to see how Aherne and McCarthy go next season as if they can push on they can add to that depth. It’s not an area I’m hugely concerned about.

Prop and out half are areas to be concerned about. But sadly that is what it is at this stage. We have young lads coming through especially at LH but they’re a year or two too late.

We do need to remember that we’re a small country with a smaller playing population that most big teams too though. Depth is harder to build with less players. And we have made some inroads in a few areas too lest we forget. Hooker was a problem position 3 years ago. Now we have Kelleher, Sheehan and Herring. That’s very good depth there. Back 3 was a concern for a while too. Now we have Lowe, Conway, Hansen, Keenan, Lowry, Balacoune and Larmour. We’re starting to get well covered at centre with Aki, Henshaw, Ringrose and Hume along with Farrell and McCloskey behind them.

There are areas of concern, but a lot of teams have that as well tbh, not just us. We don’t have the resources of the likes of England, France, South Africa or even New Zealand. But if we continue on the trajectory we’re on at the moment we won’t be far behind them. And in the case of England we might be well ahead!

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809198#Comment_118809198

Experiment with who? Who are the players putting their hands up for selection in these positions? Or are you floating this false premise that if you give people gametime at international. They will suddenly become better players than they are for their clubs?

Former Former Former

https://youtu.be/mHdXgb0dKL4

https://youtu.be/MPKCC9gEvAc

Add yesterday's balls up and it's a pretty bad look for Stuart

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809299#Comment_118809299

The first one was great from Heaslip. The issue there wasn’t Hogg finish, it was his reaction after to the ref. Daft from him as he’d have known he didn’t score it.

Dubinusa

I reckon the tour in NZ is a good opportunity. If we blood a couple of lads there, they can blossom. NZ is a fantastic proving ground.

Depth issues are always going to be problematic. But, it's similar for most of the teams. Look at Scotland! They have good players and then there is very little. It's telling that their u20's are so poor.

England should really have the most depth! But, the reality is their players are not as well coached as ours, my opinion. There appears to be a serious lack of continuity between the RFU and the premiership. Furbank is not a top class player. He'd struggle to start on any of the provinces, except maybe Connacht. Youngs and Randall are inferior to a lot of our 9's.

Going into NZ, I would be hoping Farrell gets gametime for our fringe lads. With maybe a couple of new caps. I'd like to see Balacoune and Hume start. Lowry should get the nod in one test. Loughman is someone I don't know a lot about. But, I think he could be worth bringing, if he's a good scrummager.

Bolters for NZ. JOB, Niall Murray, Osborne and Doak!

kuang1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809352#Comment_118809352

Yeah that one incident really put me off him.

What do ye think Sexton said to him afterwards exactly? At about 0:26 in this clip.

https://youtu.be/2w8s95dnYK0

I'd say "why didn't you pass the ball you greedy prick?"

Edit: no whatever it was it was less words than that.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808677#Comment_118808677

Go on then, who are the young props and out halves putting in Ireland worthy performance for their provinces?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809173#Comment_118809173

Any one of them? Don't be soft.

If we were missing all of them, then I'd be concerned.

The Second and Back rows in particular are replaceable by at least 10 high quality players across all the provinces that would play excellently with Ireland given even a short lead time. Leavy, Connors, Deegan, Reidy, Coombes, Timoney, Treadwell, Baird, O'Donoghue, Ahern, Prendergast, Molony, Penny, Dunne. Oh look that's 14.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809562#Comment_118809562

Hogg held onto the ball and the Irish players tried to get it back, I would say it was about it

Larbre34

Whatever it was it was, it wasn't necessary.

But, analytically, Hogg has been guilty of an absolutely woeful level of personal errors and judgement the last two years. In a deeper team, he wouldn't have such a leading roll.

Dubinusa

After watching this 3 times, I don't feel that we played that well. Our scrum was dodgy and the handling errors are building up. This championship was fairly gash. We played well in a couple of matches and were average at best in the others.

The biggest winners from this imo, are VDF, JGP and Sheehan.

Hansen was very good too, as was Keenan.

The big loser in this is Carberry. He didn't see a minute at oh yesterday. I think he's under the kosh.

On in all, I don't think we've set the world alight. Progress has been made and the same weaknesses are still there.

leakyboots

Concerns at back up prop. I think at second row Beirne is now nailed on and it's between Ryan and Henderson. Or you stick Beirne at 6. Baird didn't enhance his prospects a whole lot this tournament.

VdF is the only nailed on in the backrow, what a player. Doris had a poor enough tournament compared to last year, I'm not sold on him. I'm surprised Conan got subbed over him the other day. Again, Beirne at six or next cab off the rank to give them a go and develop the shirt further. One of Coombes/Timoney/Prendergast/Penney needs game time in the backrow. I don't know who our backup 7 is... POM? I don't know if we have a backrow to compete with France/South Africa/NZ to be honest.

JGP had a good tournament overall, Murray closed out games very well. Casey got a run, good job at 9 in the tournament and Doak is knocking heavily on the door also.

We're not any wiser as to who is next after Sexton. I'd love to see Ben Healy get a go at it (obviously as a Munster fan I'd be biased but I genuinely think he has potential). Baffling to think we are where we are now at 10. I really hope Farrell takes a few punts down in NZ.

Centres will be two of the three, I don't really care which two, they're all a much of muchness. My preference is Aki and Henshaw but I don't really care what combo we end up with.

After a slight dip in form Keenan is nailed on again at 15. Need to develop a backup, be it Carberry, Lowry or even Haley/JOB. I'd back Lowry myself, he's very exciting and can't be any worse at tackling than Rob Kearney was!

Wingers are still to be decided, Conway is the front runner you'd think, he hardly put a foot wrong. Hansen and Lowe did well but neither nailed on, I've still concerns over both their defences, Lowe in particular who wasn't tested this tournament defensively. I think there's a wing slot still up for grabs with Balacoune an obvious contender. I don't know if Farrell considers Earls done or not, he never got a run, time will tell. I get the feeling he may be unless he tears it up for the rest of the season with Munster, which would be the end of an era, our best ever finisher along with BOD.

As a tournament I don't think it was the highest quality opposition-wise... England and Wales are a mess. Scotland are Scotland and Italy are Italy. We'll have a much better idea of where we're at after NZ I feel. Very excited for the tour, I do think we are building nicely but I wouldn't be getting ahead of ourselves just yet.

durthacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811658#Comment_118811658

Connors was in the squad before his latest injury and when he recovers he will be an option at 7 again.

If Carbery can stay fit and be regularly good for Munster for the next two months, including possible semis and finals, then he could re-establish himself as a good option at 10 for the national team.

Clegg

Wasn't that impressed by Beirne at second row at all tbh. He's just lacking in power there. Our best combination at lock is still Ryan and Henderson. Just need to get them fit at the same time.

Doris, I think had a storming tournament. He can certainly look.to cut out handling errors, but that's an issue that seems to plague the entire side. Currently operating at a world class level. There isn't a 6 in world rugby that I'd choose ahead of him.

kuang1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811799#Comment_118811799

On Carbery, I think this is very unlikely at this stage.

And as an aside, his cause is not going to be helped with munster's form being mediocre at best this season either. Not his fault, but were he currently in the Leinster set up I'd have some hope for his development, not at munster.

For clarity, I'm a munster fan. But there's very little momentum in the province at the moment any which way you look at it.

I.e. there's no rising tide happening in Limerick that's gonna lift all boats.

On top of that our likelihood of making semi finals or finals this year is low enough, so even less game time for Carbery.

I only hope Healy can continue to progress through the murk!

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808881#Comment_118808881

Doris, POM, Beirne, Coombes, Prendergast, Marcus Rea, Leavy.

I'd say we're grand at 6 tbh.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811962#Comment_118811962

I agree, I think Beirne had a decent tournament but I would prefer to see him into 6, move Doris to 8. Use Ryan and Hendo in second row.

tooka

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813772#Comment_118813772

We are discussing depth in regards getting to a semi final at the World Cup

Doris needs to be 8 and ideally beirne at 6

pom is finished , leavy is not the same player after the injury

the other bucks you name have never played for Ireland in any even half serious game

the Irish squad lacks depth at lots of positions , 1, 3, lock, 6 , 10 and at centre we need a player who can free the back 3

pickarooney

1,3, 10 no doubt (3 exacerbated by a top class TH moving to LH). It's hard to say at lock. Form, injury, concussion, fatigue, young players not quite ready... a lot could change between now and September 2023.

We're well stocked at centre. As well as any country in the world at the moment IMO and a nice mix of passers, steppers, and crashers

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118835521#Comment_118835521

I know most people didn't watch munster v bennetton last night but Gavin Coombes was incredible. He turns the scrum into a massive weapon peeling off the back he's guaranteed to break the gaining and commit 3 tacklers to bring him down