Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

Qrt

Well holy god, the traffic in fairview tonight. Pretty much at a standstill from fairview into town, very very slow, one lane into town for everyone. And to top it all off, someone smashed the door on the 15 so he’s not letting anybody else on (bar me apparently)

time to rethink those concerts until there’s proper traffic management in place I think

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119628914#Comment_119628914

Maybe if this poster looked out the back window of the bus once in a while he’d see the cyclists sat trying to avoid the exhaust fumes of the stationary bus. Cycles and buses sharing lanes in the inner city, when there is a stop every couple of hundred metres is a bit of a joke

spurious

Good to see some enforcement by the guards, but useless unless it is consistent and probably a bit late in the day to be doing it now.

Part of the problem can be seen on that clip actually, buses get stuck behind a cyclist and cannot (should not) overtake as it is a solid line beside them. Many taxis do though, swinging out into the oncoming traffic, scaring the bejeebers out of drivers staying in their own lane.

Last night after 'Garreth' Brooks, Ballybough was closed so people were driving as normal along North Strand.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119628914#Comment_119628914

Well I mentioned that my own experience of the traffic in the area includes my driving and pedestrian and bus commuting activities! Of course your journey time may be a little slower - there are major road works going on.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616544#Comment_119616544

My Apologies.

Should have been clearer, they are business/offices running out of what was once a residential dwelling. I in no way intended to be little people homes that are indeed there.

I had to come in on the motorcycle this morning as the trains were busted due to a fault at Howth Junction.

Traffic was backed up to Killester.

I'm using a 221-D sports bike that is Euro 5 compliant, and I'm facing an interesting problem when commuting on it. The stricter emissions controls means that it is liable to over heating in traffic. if it gets to 115 degrees C it will shut off to prevent damage.

It's weird that the most efficient/most modern/fastest/more environmentally friendly(relative to a car) means of travelling is being hit hard by congestion.

There is barely any room to filter through traffic.

Thelonious Monk

I wish the Gov would push motorbikes and mopeds as a traffic solution too, smaller motorbikes anyway, they use feck all fuel compared to cars and no congestion at all.

I had a learner licence for a GS125 years ago but looking at the steps to get a full license just gives me a headache.

Why are there no mopeds in Dublin any more? Did insurance kill them as an option?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647016#Comment_119647016

The need for a specific licence rather than just use your car B licence for anyone getting a B after some point in the 00s has cut out a huge amount of younger drivers from ever being licenced for them.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647172#Comment_119647172

I'm nearly sure if you have a B you can just get an AM. I could be wrong now

But that would mean you could drive 50cc mopeds

Traffic incredibly bad this morning around Fairview (So I'm told). I was on the DART thankfully.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649366#Comment_119649366

You have to have passed your B test before October 2006. Anyone after that is only entitled to B and W.

Seth Brundle

Traffic incredibly bad this morning around Fairview (So I'm told). I was on the DART thankfully.

With the weather out there today, this should not come as a surprise. There's always an increase in the numbers driving when there's heavy rain.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119545665#Comment_119545665

I well believe Sir Galahad - the vast majority of cyclists seem to be of the opinion that they can break red lights. I don't know why they have this opinion. Is it because they feel it is safe to do so or something? If that is the case, there are very often cases where I come to a stop at a red light light whilst driving my car, see that it is very obvious that it is absolutely 100% safe for me to proceed through the red light but guess what, I don't. I wait for the green light even though I can be fully certain that if I were to proceed through the red lights, I would cause neither a danger or hindrance to anyone.

So if I feel like I am neither a danger or hindrance to anyone if I proceed through a red light in my car, absolutely fully sure that it's as safe as can be, why is it that I feel compelled to wait for a green when the majority of cyclists feel compelled to do the opposite and break the law?

The Davestator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649495#Comment_119649495

The main reason is because we can! There is virtually no chance of being caught, and if we are, nothing really that can be done like penalty points etc. I use a bike and moped on my commute. I don't understand how anyone can sit in traffic for that much of their lives.

I break lights when it is safe to do so (like pedestrian lights when all is clear) but never junctions.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649495#Comment_119649495

The reason cyclists break reds when there's nothing coming is simple:

It takes a lot of effort to get a bike up to speed. Stopping and starting on a push bike is going to be tiring and slow.

There is some benefit to cyclists breaking the reds for motorists, in that you are less likely to end up caught behind a bunch of them at the lights starting off slowly. This ends up in less cars making it through the lights and frustrates drivers more.

Ideal solution is complete segregation of cyclists/motorists via a kerb, or bollards. In this scenario cyclists would stay in their lane and been forbidden from using the road, Everyone gets where they need to go faster (we'd need new laws (14.3) and enforcement though, and that's not going to happen)

I even question how much the lane will be used. There are often many cyclists on the road in Clontarf even though there is a cycle lane available. Same applies to cycle lane between Portmarnock and Baldoyle.

I think the whole cycling thing is coming to head now and is going to tip down now that e-scooters are available. This is going to get very grey very soon.

Some of the e-scooters require an A2 licence as the power to weight ratio exceeds 0.1 kW/kg. Very few of the people with these vehicles have the required licence, tax, insurance or even PPE etc and they are going to be predominantly used in the cycle lanes. which is illegal (14.6.a)

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649495#Comment_119649495

You're missing one key difference.

You, unsustainable car driver, are sitting comfortably in your car, legs stretched, radio on, coffee in one hand and another hand free to shout out the window at cyclists.

Meanwhile the cyclist you're shouting at is worrying about that rain, floods on the road, pot holes, dangerous man hole covers, other cyclists, jay walking pedestrians, trucks, buses, junctions. Give the cyclist a break, will you?

Just as an aside, I used to cycle to work until I had to swerve to dodge a pedestrian, slipped on a manhole cover and fell into traffic. Thankfully I just hit my head, got concust and broke a bone in my shoulder. I haven't cycled since. Maybe I'm just a wimp for not going back? I see no issue with the cyclists taken advantage of junctions where they use reasonable judgement (turning left for example).

Shedite27

Throw J Walking into the mix too while we're at it shure, loads of folk walk straight across the road without waiting for the green man or not even going to the crosswalk.

Citizen Six

Watch any junction for any length of time, and you'll see many cars breaking red lights. Lots of them speeding up to do so. What makes them think it's ok to do so?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649495#Comment_119649495

I well believe Sir Galahad - the vast majority of cyclists seem to be of the opinion that they can break red lights. I don't know why they have this opinion.

Your presentation of this as it were a fact is not borne out by any research.

Furthermore, on my commute just this morning, whilst there weren't many cyclists given the weather, I didn't see any break red lights. However, at every junction I approached, I could see drivers going through clear reds. Three cars travelling through a red was not uncommon. Furthermore, I had drivers beeping me to get out of their way while I was in a 24/7 bus lane so that they could skip past those queueing. As I approach many sets of lights, it was all too common to see drivers face down into their phone. But you reckon the "vast majority of cyclists" are the ones breaking the law?

For me, the only time I might break a red light (day or night) whilst on my bike is if they don't respond after a couple of cycles (I find the detection loop at some junctions are poor when I'm on a carbon bike).

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649742#Comment_119649742

I hear this a lot

While I agree that it happens (5 second rule and all that crap) its far more prevalent amongst cyclists.

I must do it though one day with a clicker (If I've an hour to kill :) )

Citizen Six

What's the five second rule?

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649822#Comment_119649822

It's far more dangerous when cars break the rules. Motorists kill people all the time, because they break the rules of the road. Cyclists don't kill people, generally speaking.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649901#Comment_119649901

The idea that some people have in their heads that they have 5 seconds to get through a set of lights once it turns amber (Tongue in cheek)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649915#Comment_119649915

I accept that.

But the rules are the rules, Dublin Cycling went into Dublin castle a number of years ago lobbying to say that it was OK for cyclists to break "some of the rules some of the time". They were promptly told by the Garda "They must obey all of the rules all of the time".

No one really likes the rules, especially when they seem stupid, and I get that. But they are there for a reason at the end of the day and in an ideal world everyone will obey them.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649366#Comment_119649366

Passed there at 7:30. A bit of a tailback on the Howth Road and then solid traffic all the way up to the diversion but more due to the rain than anything else I would say.

Guys stopping in the yellow boxes were causing problems as usual

Citizen Six

They should obey the laws, same as drivers. But the consequences aren't the same if there's an accident.

The Idaho stop would work here in theory, and it makes sense.

I don't have a huge issue with people breaking lights on a bike, if they weigh up what they are doing properly. But I really hate being stopped at a light, and seeing a cyclist flying through, and being very close to hitting crossing pedestrians. Which seems to be happening more regularly.

Ben D Bus

I agree cyclists should obey all the rules.

It's just particularly frustrating in the case of traffic lights as the only reason they exist is because of motor traffic. If it wasn't for that there'd be no need for lights. Pedestrians, bicycles etc. can negotiate.

Motor vehicles have a lot to answer for :)

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649822#Comment_119649822

They've done the analysis on the video from cameras at lights in Dublin, and the number of cars breaking the lights far exceeded the number of cyclists. You can argue that percentage wise, there might be more cyclists than cars doing it, but as has been pointed out, the hazard from cyclists is minuscule compared to that from cars. In the last ten years, one person has been killed in a cyclist/pedestrian, and in that case it was the cyclist that died (they jumped to the side to avoid the impact, and landed very badly).

As for numbers not using the cycle lane through fairview, someone recently did do a video analysis of the numbers traveling over Newcomen bridge. While it was only half an hour during rush hour, more cyclists than cars traveled over the bridge. Note that this would have been cyclists traveling into town in the bus lane, and not in the cycle lane beside the road, as that is a total disaster in the morning. An improvement to the cycling infrastructure along there should result in more people using the cycle lane over that bridge, along with an easier journey for buses.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650060#Comment_119650060

Rules are there for a reason?.... I'm pretty sure the rules of the road were designed solely with heavy motorised vehicles in mind. They were absolutely not designed for cyclists. Expecting cyclists to blindly obey these laws, simply because they exist, is fantasy.

Thelonious Monk

What is the fascination with cyclists breaking red lights? why isn't every car accident followed by comments about all the far worse things motorists do?

What is the psychology behind it? Is it a case of - these bastards make me have to watch what I'm doing or I'll run them over and hold me up sometimes, and look they don't even stop at red lights?

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650731#Comment_119650731

I wish we could start a broader conversation here regarding cyclists and rules of the road.

If cyclists consistently break the current rules of the road, rather than conclude all cyclists are law breaking criminals, perhaps we might surmise that the current rules are not fit for purpose

highdef

I can only speak for myself as I'm the only driver I can be sure of but I can speed a lot of the time and be pretty safe that I won't be caught by enforcement, I can often break red lights. I can do lots of stuff whilst driving that is illegal but I am fairly confident I can get away with it but do you know what, I don't do any of them. Why? Because I follow the rules and saying you break a particular rule or rules because you can "get away with it" is a ridiculous excuse. Pure selfishness. To say that it is pure fantasy to expect a cyclist to obey the rules of the road but it's more of a disgrace for a motorist to not do the same is a ludicrous statement. The same rules apply to all road users (please correct me if I'm wrong), whether it's a car, a bus, a bicycle, a HGV, a motor cycle.....you get the idea. I've been to Amsterdam a few times and it's funny how it's not fantasy for cyclists to stop at red lights there. A red light there is the same as a red light here in Ireland.

You may be thinking, "Ah this fella must sometimes speed, everyone does" - I have news for you, not everyone speeds in motorised vehicles. I pass by speed detection vans very regularly and not once in my life have I ever slowed down for one, except of course if the gobshite in front slams on the brakes in an act of stupidity because of a lack of due care and attention. I've actually overtaken vehicles a few times when passing a speed detection van because the driver in front had dropped anchor and slowed wayyyyyyy below the speed limit meaning I can often safely overtake whilst still staying within the speed limit.

Regarding my comforts of being warm and cosy in my car, my commute is either 54km or 112km each way, depending on my starting point. My home is also in an extremely rural area so driving is my only viable option. However, I rarely drive to Dublin during rush house, never pass through Fairview (although I am actually working in Dublin tonight and will be heading to Baldoyle at about 4/5am so I might have a nosey to check out the layout as traffic will be light) and where I commute to is only a few km within the city side of the M50.

I completely agree that where feasible, cyclists should be segregated at suitably laid out junctions so that they can continue when motorists are stopped by a red light. Regarding cyclists who continue to use the roadway even when a cycleway is provided, laws need to be brought in where this is a punishable offence. If you've a cycleway at your disposal and you still insist to use the nearby roadway for motor vehicles, you should be punished.

I also think that we need far more red light cameras as the amount of motorised vehicles breaking red lights has grown massively in recent years. There also needs to be a reduction in the time between the red light illumination on road A and the corresponding green light illumination on road B. Having several seconds of red lights on all roads at a junction simply gives habitual red light breakers another "excuse" to break the red light.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650832#Comment_119650832

Stop, just stop! People on bikes are the same as peiople in cars or people walking. Stop with this delusional "all cyclists are law breakers" shite please.

Maybe we should get back to discussing Fairview instead of this crap!