Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462620#Comment_120462620

Exactly, noisy and polluted, like really bad. If anywhere was in need of a face-lift it was Fairview and North Strand.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463871#Comment_120463871

Folks going outbound will have to cross the road anyway to get to the two way cycle track at Clontarf. The existing cycle path from Clontarf to Howth is two way, so logically it would have made sense to continue it two way all the way into the city.

A two way cycle path gives you far more space to overtake and space for cargo bikes, etc. The only issue I could see is potentially there isn't enough space under the rail bridge outside Clontarf Dart station for a two way cycle path.

I notice cyclists are already ignoring it and are cycling outbound on the footpath in Fairview park and I've even noticed some cycling the wrong way on the new inbound cycle path along Fairview park. Also even more people walking on the new cycle path!

Also at the corner of Clontarf Road and Alfie Byrne road, I've noticed cyclists cycle too and from Clontarf Road/Alfie Byrne Road, cyclists are largely ignoring the new cycle path and are instead cycling on the footpath as it is more direct between the two roads. A clear failure of planning for an obvious desire path IMO.

lucernarian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464273#Comment_120464273

I think the movement of bikes while only one section of one side of the cycle tracks has been opened is not much of an indicator of anything. Seems premature to comment on the start of a stretch that is mostly a construction site.

As for the design, the footpath below the clontarf railway bridge is being narrowed with the construction of one lane as it is - and particularly at Fairview park, it's good to have a cycle lane where it's actually needed (where the residential streets, schools, businesses and shops all are) combined with regular crossing points for the leg of the journey taken on the park side.

Replacing a bus stop with vehicle parking in a very densely populated stretch of the scheme is the real lunacy in this design IMO.

bk

"I think the movement of bikes while only one section of one side of the cycle tracks has been opened is not much of an indicator of anything. Seems premature to comment on the start of a stretch that is mostly a construction site."

I agree with that in a general sense, we will have to wait and see once it is complete. Though I definitely expect that we will continue to see some people cycle outbound through fairview park on the footpath. Frankly it just feels much safer and more pleasant then cycling on the northern side of the road, which is much busier and closer to cars, buses, people parking outside of shops, etc.

BTW keep in mind there is actually a cycle path already going through the center of Fariview Park and most cyclists already use it in both directions between Annesley Bridge and Westwood.

Also the issue at the corner of Alfie Byrne Road and Clontarf is on a finished and open part of the bike path, so that is clearly a problem regardless. I don't think it is a big one, it isn't a particularly busy location, I suspect most people will just treat it as a shared space, but it does seem poorly thought out design.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120465521#Comment_120465521

The path through the park isn't that easy to cross over to, when travelling outbound. I only cross over to it if there’s no vehicles travelling either direction, as I cross Annesley bridge.

The section at the end of the Alfie Byrne road shouldn’t be treated as a shared space though. Pedestrians won’t be happy with cyclists on a footpath, when there’s a new cycle lane built for them beside it. And they’d be right. How lazy can cyclists be? Even though the line should be on the desired path, as you mentioned. Some people are afraid of cyclists, even on a shared path. I got attacked by a lady a couple of months back going through the park, and I always reduce my speed when there’s people about too.

bk

"The section at the end of the Alfie Byrne road shouldn’t be treated as a shared space though. Pedestrians won’t be happy with cyclists on a footpath, when there’s a new cycle lane built for them beside it. And they’d be right. How lazy can cyclists be? Even though the line should be on the desired path, as you mentioned. Some people are afraid of cyclists, even on a shared path. I got attacked by a lady a couple of months back going through the park, and I always reduce my speed when there’s people about too."

That is the problem though, the Cycle path isn't next to the footpath. Actually looking at the plans, that whole section is terribly designed. It doesn't make any sense at all.

First of all, most people won't actually use that footpath, as there is already an existing faster footpath connecting Clontarf Road and Alfie Byrne Road right in front of the sea. So this half way footpath seems unnecessary. It then has two separate footpath arms that seem very unnecessary and very confusing. AS a pedestrian (which I am) the whole thing and which path I should take is very confusing.

Also BTW there are actually 4 sections which are officially shared paths as the footpath and cycle path overlap at those points.

I think a better design would have been to do what you are suggesting and actually put a cycle path right next to the curved footpath and then have both a footpath and cycle path arm go up to the traffic lights, where it would be a shared space like it is.

This is what it currently looks like:

I think if they did it like this, it would have been much more understandable and straight forward, with less weird crossings.

Sorry, hopefully the scrabbles are understandable.

Or alternatively, remove the inner footpath completely, have it be the cycle lane instead and make where the cycle lane is a footpath.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464273#Comment_120464273

Traffic going from Amiens Street to Clontarf seafront are probably better off taking the right on the Tolka and head out out Alfie Byrne Road, avoiding the congestion and traffic lights in Fairview anyway.

The cyclists going through Fairview are probably the ones turning up the Malahide or Howth Road, no point in them crossing and crossing back

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120465864#Comment_120465864

There's no right turn at Annesley bridge, so you'd have to move to the left and line up with the traffic coming from Poplar Row. I don't like dealing with that increase in journey time myself. Most of the time.

wrong thread

Shedite27

slightly off topic but any idea why the nee cycle lanes on Griffith Avenue is red on one side and white on the other side of the road? It it just aesthetics or is there some difference between when they’re cycle lanes or something?

bk

"slightly off topic but any idea why the nee cycle lanes on Griffith Avenue is red on one side and white on the other side of the road? It it just aesthetics or is there some difference between when they’re cycle lanes or something?"

I noticed that this week myself and took a similar picture of it too!

I've no idea why they have done this, other then DCC seem to be incompetent and the implementation of the bike lane on Griffith Avenue has been a complete mess.

I guess it might be temporary, just whatever the staff had in their van. This section of the bike path near the schools was rushed into place a few weeks ago after complaints about the dangers of parking around the schools made it into the newspapers. The DCC staff arrived fast a day or two after the newspaper articles and built this part of the cycle lane in a few days, which was supposed to have be done 3 years ago!

I could be wrong, but I believe it is supposed to be temporary works and that the bike path will be completed near the end of the year, with the concrete curbs, etc. Maybe they will fix the different colours too.

BTW I think they have used the white/yellow colour on the other end of Griffith Avenue, which is finished, so I guess that is supposed to be the colour, rather then red. Though now that I think about it, red would probably match the aesthetics of the surrounding red brick houses.

If you want an official answer, might be best to reach out to DCC, 012222222 or citycentreprojects@dublincity.ie according to the DCC site.

magicbastarder

that's at the marino end?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468493#Comment_120468493

Yes, from the new apartment buildings and past the three schools towards Malahide Road.

Here are pics I took over the weekend:

Also note the terrible drains taking up so much space of an already tight cycle lane!

d51984

One of them surfaces is only a temporary one, now dont ask me which one. 😂. It could be the sandy coloured one as I have noticed parts of it blowing out on the road so there's sandy coloured bits all over the road.

crushproof

I thought the Griffith Avenue path was going to be separated from the road? Or a least have bollards as protection.

Thelonious Monk

those metal bollards with the chains to keep motorists off footpaths/grass are the kind of thing i fantasise about. cars are just dumped everywhere where i live, every single footpath, and grass verges destroyed everywhere. sigh.

Pawwed Rig

They put that sandy material on the ramp up to Newcomen Bridge for some reason aswell

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468988#Comment_120468988

They’re disgusting. Four penalty points plus fine every time someone parks on grass or footpath would sort that out.

Politicians don’t want to upset their voters that break the law tho.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468969#Comment_120468969

Roughly half the length of bike lane on Griffith Avenue has extruded concrete curb to separate the bike lane from the road.

The section shown in the pictures above is I believe a temporary job that they rushed into place after bad press DCC received a few weeks ago. I assume the concrete curb will come later.

The whole thing is a mess, roughly a quarter of the bike lane has the concrete curb and is "painted", another quarter has concrete crub, but no paint, there is then a section of a few hundred meters with no bike lane at all !! and now the latest section in the above pictures, painted two different colours and no concrete curb.

Oh and the contrete curb isn't continous, obviously there are breaks in it for entrances to houses car parking, but worse, they have no concrete curb in sections where there is on-street parking.

Oh and the section by the schools is a death trap in the mornings with car doors opening into the bike lane and school kids in it due to the onstreet parking being stupidly right next to the bike lane!

And it has only taken more then three years (so far) to create this rubbish!

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470513#Comment_120470513

By 'curb', do you mean kerb? It's certainly a mess, and that's before even mentioning the black and white plastic 'bollards'/wands that were removed but the kerb attachment for holding them remains.

But this is not the Clontarf to CC. 😉

magicbastarder

they had the sandy coloured covering on collins avenue, and had to redo it - i assume due to bad application rather than substandard material. from what i saw of it, it suggested it's laid down in rolls like roofing felt, and the one on collins avenue was lifting in multiple places.

Citizen Six

Had the chance to cycle the full length along the park today.

Had space to overtake a cyclist which was grand.

Two lads walking on it close to the bus stop by the playground area.

When I got close to the end I was almost hit by a cyclist joining the path to cycle in the wrong direction.

lucernarian

A water main issue somewhere around North Strand on Easter Monday resulted in contaminated water at least in Fairview, saw photos of muddy water in glasses and sinks. But looking at Irish Water and DCC online, they gave a restore time of 6am on Tuesday and when I passed through North Strand on Monday, I saw no burst water main or repair crews.

I was asked about the condition of the water, if it was safe after boiling, suitable for washing/flushing toilet or should just not be let into the pipes/tanks of your home whatsoever. I had no clue, except I know I wouldn't want muddy water going into my attic tank.

Considering the importance of the water main replacement in this project, is this the typical extent of Irish Water comms when a serious issue crops up?

Murph_D

A bit of muddy water after water main works is a common thing and I wouldn't worry enough about it to post on a transportation thread.

Gloomtastic!

School holidays are over so the traffic returns. Bloody teachers! 😂

magicbastarder

i've often wondered has anyone ever tried to gauge how much of the upsurge in traffic as the schools go back, is from people returning to work after taking a break to coincide with the kid's holidays?

i.e. people who aren't doing a school run, but who also weren't commuting to work over easter because they were also on leave during that period.

loyatemu

families take holidays when the schools are off; teachers are also off, universities/colleges are either off at Easter or winding down for the exams. Even if you have no connection to education, so many people take the school holiday periods off that it's difficult to get much work done in some companies so you might as well take some days off then as well to extend the long weekend. It's a domino effect.

It also probably shows that it doesn't take a huge reduction in traffic for the roads to move freely.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490487#Comment_120490487

Related to the topic in hand (if not directly)

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/0418/1377555-cabinet/

Congestion charges?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490487#Comment_120490487

It also probably shows that it doesn't take a huge reduction in traffic for the roads to move freely.

yeah, i'd say traffic is exceptionally 'inelastic' once you hit a certain level - for example, if a set of lights at a junction will typically allow say 8 cars through on a cycle, no traffic will build up at the junction if 8 or fewer cars arrive on each cycle. but when you get to 10 cars, say, all of a sudden you'll start to get a buildup. congestion is not linear with traffic volume.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490590#Comment_120490590

Or emission charges? So basically congestion charges only for petrol and diesel vehicles.