Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120512754#Comment_120512754

we don't focus on this benefit of congestion, to be fair. congestion, it brings people together. you can see how much more relaxed people dealing with congested traffic are, it's a social lubricant.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610830#Comment_120610830

FYI there was always a cycle path on Griffith Avenue, it was just a painted one and entitled motorists would simply park or drive in it, it was unusable as a cycle lane before. Now they are just forcing those entitled motorists out of the cycle path, though still far from perfect.

Murph_D is correct above, I still see insane motorists and delivery drivers drive as much as 50+ meters along the footpath as kids are walking home from school on Griffith Avenue! I've seen a car drive right over the concrete curb of the cycle lane and park right in the middle of the cycle lane!

Gloomtastic!

I’m on Griffith Avenue most days. The majority of cyclists I see are in the morning - 90% of them kids going to school. They then return after school. Vast majority use the footpath both times instead of the cycle lanes.

Apart from students, very rarely see any cyclists using it.

Phibsboro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611517#Comment_120611517

Just to confirm, its mostly kids and they mostly cycle on the path. But that will hopefully change over the years, probably need the schools (mainly ard scoil) to get involved.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611517#Comment_120611517

I walk Griffith Avenue every day (parent) and use the cycle path too. Lots of parents, adults and secondary school kids using the cycle path (though it isn't actually finished yet, missing outside the new apartment buildings). Also a marked increase in parents cycling with younger kids in the cycle path and also a large number of cargo bikes with kids in it too.

I'd say it is more like 60/40 split between younger kids on the footpath versus older folks in the cycle path.

BTW There is actually an official on footpath cycle path between Charlemont and the schools, so the younger kids are supposed to be there.

Overall there is a very noticable increase in the number of people cycling on Griffith Avenue, which is pretty remarmkable IMO given that the new cycle path is a pretty poor quality cycle path, imagine how succesful it would be if it was a proper, high quality, wide, two way cycle path!

BTW You just reminded me that two years ago I saw a secondary school student been knocked off their bike while on the old painted cycle path, ambulance needed and everything!

A proper cycle path on Griffith Avenue is long overdue.

DoraDelite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611517#Comment_120611517

I'm on it most days either walking or cycling outside of school times. Given I'm constantly hearing "nobody is using it" from people with a windscreen view of it, I decided to count the cyclists when I walked it last Friday evening around 5:45pm (the section between Mobhi road and Drumcondra road). In that 10 minute walk I counted 21 cyclists and one scooter, all were using the cycle lanes except for two (one was approx an 8-9 year old girl cycling slowly with a parent). Perpetuating the "nobody is using it" myth just serves to rile up those that are looking for any excuse to be hostile to cyclists. It's completely irresponsible, spend some time in the area outside of your car if you want a more accurate picture of the area.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611591#Comment_120611591

It's a patch work mess along one of the widest avenue's in north Dublin.. probably as well there's not a high usage as it's design isn't suitable for that..

Though I would say that any attempt to bring it up to European standards will be fought against tooth and nail by the local residents...

bk

"It's a patch work mess along one of the widest avenue's in north Dublin.. probably as well there's not a high usage as it's design isn't suitable for that.."

Yes, the design certainly isn't good enough for young kids to safely cycle on. Far too narrow, drainage grates that protrude half into the cycle lane, leaves and debris in the cycle lane and even flooded in areas when it rains! And then there are cars parked next too it, with doors being opened into the cycle lane and kids running across it. It is quiet chaotic in the mornings around the schools.

"Though I would say that any attempt to bring it up to European standards will be fought against tooth and nail by the local residents..."

The most disappointing thing about it, is it could have been done much better without much difference for local residents or much extra cost IMO.

A two way cycle lane one one side of the road, rather then single lane both sides, would have meant a much better and safer cycle lane, with basically no difference to the space available to cars or any real difference to local residents.

Also put the onstreet parking on the other side of the road from the schools, so no interaction between the cars and the cycle path.

Doing the above would take it from like a D grade cycle path to say about a B grade one.

I really don't get it, they can clearly do two way bike lanes in the south side of the City under DLR council, but DCC can't do the same on one of the widest streets in Dublin!

Griffith Avenue could have been a glowing example of a good quality cycle lane with little effort, instead it has shown DCC to be completely incompetent at building cycle lanes.

CatInABox

Back in Fairview, that new coffee shop by the old jewellers is going great guns. A queue inside, and people sitting at tables outside. Wouldn't have thought that it'd be a place to sit myself, but every seat was taken. Great news.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612007#Comment_120612007

"instead it has shown DCC to be completely incompetent at building cycle lanes."

Nah, I would say it's more likely that it was an exercise in appeasing the local residents who were opposed to a cycle path being installed along "their road" and DCC copied the "least effort" possible design which pleases neither the local residents or people who cycle the road..

Even driving the road isn't great the way the car parking is dotted along the road sticking out and only protected by a couple of plastic reflective posts...

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612453#Comment_120612453

Nope, I've been watching it closely, most of the issues are from DCC. The project has been going on for more then 3 years now and still isn't finished. The stop and starting seem to have little to do with residents feedback, which hasn't made any real material difference to the desgin of the cycle lane, just very minor alternations.

The whole thing started at the start of COVID and it was supposed to be a quick temporary job, yet years later and even those temporary measures haven't been completed!

All the docs on it over the years are all up on the DCC site to see. It was actually even worse designed at the start, if you can believe that.

Like the most recent changes were put up almost a year ago, but they still haven't actually done the work on the ground!

It is a real shambles and EXTREMELY poor showing by DCC.

BTW It looks like they might be getting ready to finish the missing section. Folks with hiviz and clipboards were standing around it today. Also they appear to be working outside the new apartments today, I'm not sure to finish the traffic lights or to finish the bike lane, hopefully both.

Like it has been really crazy how bad the whole project has gone. I don't know what the issue was, it really shouldn't have taken more then a couple of weeks to put down those stupid plastic bollards along the length of Griffith Avenue, then followed up with the kerbing and junction changes. I guess there most of been issues with lack and budget or staff, I can't think of any reason why it should take so long to build such a relatively poor cycle lane.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611517#Comment_120611517

Wouldn't blame them, its not an actually usable cycle lane. It's too narrow, full of drains, litter and rotting leaves for half the year. Better off on the car lane sadly. There's hardly any usable cycle lane in Dublin and no cycle friendly junctions.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612880#Comment_120612880

Yeah, it's been a total joke. It's been dangerous to drive along it too, as without warning you're swapping from unfinished to finished areas, meaning that you can suddenly be driving right in the cycle lane. It's better now that they've done more of it, but I couldn't believe that someone would sign off on leaving it like that for so long. They didn't even put up any signs to warn people, the complete opposite of the usual DCC approach.

d51984

When Fairview and North strand works is complete, NTA should be looking at putting some shiny new electric buses through the above areas, would really compliment the completed scheme well.

spurious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120624308#Comment_120624308

They could start by putting back the bus stop on the North Strand that they are replacing with car parking spaces.

Murph_D

Surely this is a Dublin Bus issue and not the DCC? Can’t blame them for everything!

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630639#Comment_120630639

Dublin City Council and the NTA removed the stop, along with several other stops, with no consultation.

Dublin Bus are only the operator now.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610830#Comment_120610830

Appropriate username.

Why not consider cycling in the Griffith Ave cycle lanes yourself instead of sitting in traffic?

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630673#Comment_120630673

Cos I need what’s in the back of the van for work. No point going otherwise. 🙄

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631397#Comment_120631397

Doesn't mean someone who needs to carry things can't cycle, there's cargo bikes for example:

https://www.treehugger.com/uk-plumber-conducts-business-by-cargo-bike-5188214

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631422#Comment_120631422

If I could fit what I need on a cargo bike, I’d do it tomorrow. But unfortunately I can’t, so a van it has to be.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631469#Comment_120631469

But that's the ambition that so many are against. You *need* to be able to drive to work whereas most others travelling into city centres do not *need* to drive but make the choice based on whatever excuse works for them. If all of those were to make the choice to instead use public transport, your journey would become shorter and less stressful.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631517#Comment_120631517

True, the vast majority of people using that road only have to carry themselves or a laptop unless they're a commercial driver/tradesman like the previous poster here..

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631469#Comment_120631469

And this is what creates the traffic you complain about. Not a cycle lane.

bk

This is such an important point. Dublin is ranked as having some of the highest traffic congestion in the world, while Amsterdam has some of the least traffic congestion in the world! And yes people do drive in Amsterdam and trades people with vans exist there too!

The difference is that Amsterdam builds such good quality walking infrastructure, cycling infrastructure and public transport, that for many people it is faster, cheaper and more convenient to get around by these, so they opted for them over driving, which of course reduces traffic congestion for those who still have to drive, dohhh!

And surprisingly Amsterdam is actually ranked as one of the easiest cities in Europe to drive around. I've heard from many folks in Amsteradam ho relatively stress free it is to drive around Amsterdam compared to other European cities. Partly this is because the engineers put the same sort of careful thought into street design for cars as they do bikes. Lots of one way streets, lots of low speed limits (but still faster journey times). A lot of ideas that are initially counter intuitive and the type of things that Irish motorists would likely fight tooth and nail, but which have shown to actually greatly reduce traffic congestion and reduce journey times and increase peoples happiness.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631893#Comment_120631893

I always thought the Dutch set the Gold standard for cycle infrastructure and they pretty much do apart from the fact that motorcycles and mini-cars are allowed to use the cycle infra.. :-/

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631622#Comment_120631622

I wasn’t complaining about the traffic. I was complaining about the lack of cyclists using the cycle lanes, while we are all stuck in traffic caused by the replanning of the road to allow for the cycle lanes.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632006#Comment_120632006

how are the cycle lanes causing traffic to be stuck? i've driven griffith ave a good few times in recent weeks and to me anyway it's no different to how it ever was apart from there are some kerbs separating the bike lanes.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632006#Comment_120632006

Would you be planning to squeeze your van between a lane of traffic and the footpath if the cycle lane was returned to motorists, its rightful owner in your view.

I cycled on the Griffith Avenue cycle lane on May 9th just for the record. I saw plenty of other cyclists using the facilities that day.

If a road for vehicular traffic is underutilised can we advocate for it to be closed off to vehicles?

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632006#Comment_120632006

I cycle on Griffith Ave. most working days for a section when I'm heading to the office. Totally incorrect to say that there is nobody using it. I'll try and get a photo for you one day.

And yes, I use it all year round, not just in good weather.