Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320593#Comment_121320593

I'd imagine the road interface is temporary until they finish the resurfacing.

Gloomtastic!

They're changing the road surface along Fairview Strand at the moment......

Citizen Six

Yeah, it's down to a single lane with stop go in place. Can't wait to see the local facebook groups complain. 🤣

getoutadodge

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/local-businesses-from-clontarf-to-dublin-city-suffering-and-wont-survive-the-year-due-to-cycle-lane-project/a1448270005.html

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121325759#Comment_121325759

If I'm not mistaken, it is the Indo that describe it as a cycle lane project which is presumably is have a clickbait headline

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121325774#Comment_121325774

I quickly skimmed, but didn't seem to read anything about the water main, or other associated works. It's all the cyclist's fault really.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121324358#Comment_121324358

And complain they should. It's a disaster area along Fairview and has been coming up to two years now. Or do you think they should all just put up with it for as long the construction takes, regardless of delays?

Pete_Cavan

The article even suggests that cycle lane is part of the official name of the project given the way they have capitalised certain words

The Independent north inner city representative is urging Dublin City Council to help local businesses survive “a massive fall in footfall and turnover caused by Clontarf to city centre project works”.

Cllr Ring, who surveyed over 50 business owners along the route, found that businesses are suffering most, with footfall and income down over 30pc on average due to the €63 million Clontarf to City Centre Cycle Lane project.

Without knowing the questions asked in the survey, I assume it was basically along the lines of "would you like a payout from the government?". I think it's pretty disgraceful firstly that he is engaging in such populist nonsense and secondly that a national newspaper is promoting it.

If "compensation" was to be paid for every bit of disruption, no improvement projects would be possible. The only way it could realistically work would be to review accounts for the years before, during and after the works. Benefits from the works would also have to be taken into account and things would probably balance out. The amount of admin would be huge and almost certainly not worth it. Anyone who decides to cease trading (e.g. our jeweler friend) would have to be excluded, can't just decide for ourself that works destroyed your business and you should get a payout.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327380#Comment_121327380

In fairness they should allow companies to apply for tax relief or reduced VAT, or something, for the period of the works. Any businesses along there, assuming they are well managed, will gain far more after completion than they lose during works, but it shouldn't be assumed those businesses can afford to weather it out until works are completed.

Gloomtastic!

I’m surprised the Indo would have any dealings with the shyster! 🙄

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/herald/million-euro-mystery-as-ring-saves-home-from-bank-with-deal/37797983.html

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327396#Comment_121327396

Like I said, any improvements in trading would also have to be considered in any such scheme. There is no logic to paying compensation if the business experiences an uptick in business for the next few years as a result of the works.

The whole thing would be extremely difficult to prove and likely not worth it in the end. I suspect many of the business owners complaining would be happy just to continue complaining regardless of whether their trading is up or down (though they'd never admit that of course).

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327162#Comment_121327162

Just avoid the area. It's been going on for two years and people still don't bother checking when works in their area are happening. Luckily most of this big disruption takes place over the weekend, when it affects less people.

The people who complain in local groups aren't from the area where works are taking place. All they care about is being inconvenienced trying to drive through them.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327652#Comment_121327652

Are the traders confident or convinced there will be an uptick in trade post works?

I dont know much about the project or the local area, but i assume if cars and parking js restricted, they probably will see a decline in trade.

I am not saying thats a reason to not go ahead with the project of course, but from the traders perspective, do they see any light at the end of the tunnel? I dont know.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328375#Comment_121328375

Parking outside businesses hasn't really been restricted while the works are going on, and not that much of a change when it's finished either.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328400#Comment_121328400

Thanks.

So what is their complaint?

That the works slow down traffic to such an extent that people just avoid the area?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328400#Comment_121328400

Actually it has been impossible to park anywhere along the outbound section of Amiens Street between Buckingham Street and Portland Row for over six months. That has posed some difficulties for businesses, but hopefully that ought to be sorted later this month.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328355#Comment_121328355

That's exactly what local traders are complaining about. People are avoiding the area because it's a building site. Disruption is completely unavoidable but the state they have Fairview in shouldn't have been allowed to drag on as long as it has.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328727#Comment_121328727

We were talking about local facebook groups moaning about journeys through the area. Now you've switched up to talk about local traders.

Einstein

Absolute shambles.

I live in Clontarf, and I commute across the city to the southside. Absolute zero foresight with these road re-structures.

All they want is to stop people driving to the city. Fine, I get it. But I work southside. I use the east link. I don't go near town. The re-structuring has added 40mins to my journey. The lack of actual common sense with these ongoing road projects is mind boggling. The changes of the left turn to Sandymount and turning it into a cycle lane causes tailbacks all the way through East wall.

Unreliable Public transport. They closed all northside Dart stations over a bank holiday weekend where there was a marathon, protests & diversions a plenty, They didn't add extra bus services and even if they did, the busses wouldn't be able to access places the rail lines can.

Can't drive here, can't drive there. Massive bus lanes that merge into the same lane as regular traffic.

Zero foresight, zero common sense.

It's a sitcom.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328448#Comment_121328448

Park around the corner and walk 160m. Is that too much to ask?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329291#Comment_121329291

You're not from modern Ireland, are you?

🤣

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329291#Comment_121329291

Yes it is too much when, as in a situation that I’m aware of, the area in front of a building needed to be power cleaned due to an accumulation of drug paraphernalia and actual human waste being dumped on the site over the period by homeless people, or when you need large items delivered or taken away from the premises. They both needed direct access which was impossible.

For the record, I don’t have an issue with the work per se. it needed to be done, but please don’t presume that things are as black or white or as simple as your post above suggests. There are occasions when direct access is needed to any business and stating that it hasn’t been restricted is simply not correct. It certainly was.

It’s almost finished along that section at last now and there will be some parking spaces reinstated which will be welcome.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328827#Comment_121328827

If you live in Clontarf and are headed to the east link what are you doing in Fairview? It would surely be easier to head for the coast and go up Alfie Byrne Road to Eastwall?

I drive that way cross city the odd time if I get on the road at 6:30 there is no issue but leaving it until after 7 can be a painful experience.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329370#Comment_121329370

Cleaning up after junkies/homeless can't be directly blamed on the works.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329449#Comment_121329449

The inability to do it can be blamed on the works as the cleaning firms needed direct access from in front of the buildings to do it, which was impossible due to the works.

There was also a massive uptick in homeless sleeping and junkies along that section of the road for much of the time that the barriers were in place.

As I said things aren’t always quite as black and white as you might think. I am simply making the point that your earlier blanket statement that parking outside businesses was not restricted was quite simply incorrect.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328375#Comment_121328375

Whether businesses are confident of an uptick in trade post works or not is irrelevant. Ring is asking for compensation and a basic element of compensation is that it relates to the loss suffered. If someone brought DCC to court looking for compensation, the defence could reasonably argue that benefits resulting from the works also have to be considered, regardless of whether the business is confident of that or not.

The article linked stated businesses are suffering from a massive fall in footfall. As has been said, the locations with retail and food&beverage businesses, which are very reliant on footfall, have had most of the parking retained. The businesses between Buckingham Street and Portland Row, which have lost on street parking, are mainly professional services which don't rely on footfall or passing trade. There are of course negative impacts to the works but I doubt drop in footfall is affecting solicitors on Amiens Street, particularly when there is parking nearby which customers could use.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329606#Comment_121329606

Very true.

But if parking for hospitality is retained, yet the endless traffic queues are putting off customers coming into Clontarf/Fairview, there likley will be a drop in trade.

But I guess thats up to the businesses to prove.

Einstein

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329447#Comment_121329447

I do.

However the work that's being done in Fairview extends to both the Howth road and the Coast road. It doesn't just start and stop in Fairview. Far from it. If the Sandymount junction has a knock on effect to East wall, surely you can appreciate how the Fairview work has a direct effect on Howth road & Coast road. The new diversion sends people down a smaller road causing congestion in Fairview strand into Ballybough.

I also don't start work until 09:30. I'm not leaving 3 hours before work because of our incompetency to install a functioning traffic system.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329469#Comment_121329469

I never said it wasn't restricted. I said it wasn't really restricted, implying it had shifted a bit, and you can work around it. In most areas where businesses made a case of the need for on street parking, it was accommodated.

Claiming you need direct street access to the front of a building to clean the footpath area is a bit of a joke, and you know it.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329767#Comment_121329767

It was the basement area in front of the building that needed the power washing as they had become full of drug paraphernalia and human faeces.

With all due respect, I know that I’m absolutely correct in this particular case and trying to tell me otherwise is just insulting, and basically calling me a liar, which I’m not prepared to take from anyone.

Stop digging a hole for yourself.

As I said, there can be occasions when direct access is needed - not every day but on occasion, and in this case it was just not possible along that particular section of Amiens Street due to the works.