Opening post or packages

1874

Is it a criminal offence to open another persons post or packages, I see from the book of statutes that The Communication Regulation (Postal Services) Act 2011 says it is an offence, Id have thought its a crime, ie a criminal offence, I cant tell from the Act if its a civil or a criminal matter? can anyone elaborate please?

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239785/opening-post-or-packages

If a statute says something is an offence, then almost all of the time, that is a criminal offence.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239785/opening-post-or-packages

What happens if a letter is delivered to wrong address... it has happened to me and i had opened before i noticed... i brought to post office...

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118864979#Comment_118864979

the act says it must be done intentionally for it to be an offence.

1874

I was referring to where a person in a business had something delivered to them incorrectly and rather than return to the courier which was clearly marked, they decided to open the package, brazenly defended opening it as they claimed different things, initially that they didnt know who it was for, claimed it was sent to them so they can open it,that they couldnt see any details on package. Im wondering how the Gardai will deal with this if I report as its my opinion it was handed to the business as a potential tasty item to steal, should have been placed in a storage locker.

edit, Im suspicious the courier intentionally handed it to someone in the business with the intention of opening the package, as it should have been placed in a locker beside the business.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865013#Comment_118865013

report it and let the gardai deal with it. alternatively report it to An Post with as much detail as you can. They might take it more seriously.

Peregrinus

The Guards won't deal with it. The prosecution of offences under the Communications Regulation Act is handed by the Commission for Communications Regulation (ComReg); that is the agency to which your complaint should be made. They are mainly focussed on the regulation of postal service providers; how they deal with complaints about offences committed by someone who isn't a postal service provider I don't really know.

But note that the offence can only be committed in relation to a "postal packet", which is a letter, parcel, packet or other article carried by a postal service provider. Postal services include the collection, sorting and delivery of packets, but they don't include point-to-point courier services where a courier comes to A, collects a packet, brings it to B and delivers it there. You mention that the package was delivered by "a courier", so it's possible that it wasn't handled by a postal service provider and isn't covered by the offence of intentionally opening a postal packet.

There's a register of postal service providers on the ComReg website; if you know what company handled your package you can check to see if they are on the register.

1874

Its not actually An Post, a private courier business, handed item to staff in another unconnected business just decided they'd open for a variety of changing excuses, initially that they imo I think there is more to it and they thought from the packaging it might have had something more valuable the individual who opened could pawn off. They blatantly admitted they opened it as they didnt know who it was for and they see nothing wrong with that, I want to report as I think it may help make them aware they cannot and should not open packages that are none of their business,they should stick to doing their own job, which is a completely different thing, and also to highlight the courier driver in the event he is selecting potentially valuable looking packages and handing them over to someone he shouldnt. I'll report to Gardai, more concerned about getting fobbed off,but I think there is something suspicious about it all.

nibtrix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865209#Comment_118865209

I could be wrong, but I would imagine a private courier business is not covered by the "postal services" legislation... as they're not a postal service.

I can't speak to your suspicions about the courier delivering it to the incorrect location on purpose, but if we receive a courier parcel at our place of business and there is no name or phone number on it, or if we cannot identify the name given, we will often open it to see if there is more information available inside. Of course if it is addressed to another building or location we don't do that, we would just hand it back to the courier on arrival and tell them it's the wrong place.

If you have received your parcel and there is nothing missing or damaged, what exactly do you expect the Gardai to do?

The sender of the parcel is the only person who has a contract with the courier company, so you should ask them to raise a complaint with the company and specifically about the fact that the driver delivered it to the wrong location.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865131#Comment_118865131

I see what you're saying but the act says in relation to postal services, this doesn't seem to mean it is specific to postal service providers, it seems to be dealing with any offence by anyone specified in relation to postal services.

53.-(1) highlights either any individual (i.e. "A person") AND a postal service provider OR persons employed by a postal service provider

Offences in relation to postal services

53.— (1) A person commits an offence if he or she, without the agreement of the addressee and, in the case of a person who is a postal service provider or an employee or agent of a postal service provider, contrary to his or her duty, intentionally—

(a) delays, detains, interferes with or opens, a postal packet addressed to another person or does anything to prevent its delivery or authorises, suffers or permits another person (who is not the addressee) to do so,

Anyway, I'm going to ring COMREG

3DataModem

They will tell you that courier services are not deemed postal services of 'postal packets' under the 2012 legislation, and do not fall under their scope.

That includes some courier services provided by An Post, so it is a well established demarcation.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865131#Comment_118865131

When is post no longer considered post? IIRC An Post are done with the item once it's posted in the letter box. So if an item is delivered, even to the wrong address, is it still considered post?

1874

Well, COMREG did say its not under their remit, but not because it was not deemed post, but because the organisation are not registered with them? even though I explained it was a third party that opened the package, they seemed to want to connect the company with the person that opened the package when they are not connected. I can see it wont make headway, whenever Ive had reason to contact any kind of State body, the more I realise they don't give a damn unless it is something easy or even at all OR just don't seem to have any interest or even an appearance of it.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865913#Comment_118865913

I havent received my parcel/package though, and I dont know if it is damaged.

As for what I expect the Gardai to do? have a chat with the people that opened it and tell them shouldn't be doing it.

Marcusm

So having identified that they have your package, have you asked them to release it to you? If yes, what was their response? Intentionally depriving you if your property may amount to theft which is certainly a Garda matter. They have few if any obligations to make any effort to pass it in to you but they should not keep it if, for example, you make efforts to establish your entitlement to it and turn up to collect it.

macvin

Why not simply deal with the sender. they have the contract with the courier. T

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118868787#Comment_118868787

Because that would have been too simple, when there was a chance for a cunning plan…..

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118867814#Comment_118867814

Nah, Comreg are correct, I'm afraid.

Legislation which creates offences is very strictly interpreted - if the Oireachtas wants to criminalise particular behaviour they have to do so very clearly and unambiguously. The legislation will set out all the elements of the offence and, if a particular case doesn't tick every box, then the offence has not been committed.

So, the offence here is (1) intentionally (2) opening (3) a postal packet (4) addressed to another person (Communications Regulation (Postal Services) Act 2011 s. 53(1)). "Postal packet" is defined in s. 3 of the same Act as "an item addressed in the final form in which it is to be carried by a postal service provider", including a letter, parcel, packet or any other article transmissible by post.

So, if the courier service that carried this item wasn't a postal service provider, then the item wasn't a "postal packet". Element (3) is not present , and the offence of opening a postal packet has not been committed. We don't have to consider the other elements.

That's not to say that no offence has been committed. If your suspicion that the item was deliberately misdelivered because it was thought to be valuable, and the courier and his scaly mate wanted to keep it for themselves, that would be the offence of theft (Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001 s. 4). Your problem here is that all you have is a suspicion that this is so; there is zero evidence (that you have mentioned) suggesting that it is so. And the guards aren't going to investigate unevidenced suspicions.

If there is a scam of this kind going on, the courier company would be best positioned to discover it. Missing or undelivered packages containing items of value result in complaints to, and claims against, the courier company, and pretty soon the courier company would realise that a lot of claims related to packages supposed to be delivered by this one bloke. So you could complain to the courier company about the misdelivery of your package. One complaint on its own means virtually nothing - genuinely accidental misdeliveries are a routine occurrence - but if there have already been other complaints, or if there are in the future, your complaint will help to build up a pattern.

But that's a complaint about misdelivery. With regard to the actual opening of your package by the person to whom it was delivered, the courier company is not responsible for that. Without further facts there is nothing to suggest that opening your package involved the commission of an offence, so the guards will not be interested. But it may be the civil wrong of trespass to goods, and if you have suffered any loss or damage as a result of your package being opened you can bring a civil claim for that.