Census 2022 Time Capsule

sheepintheback

Thinking of doing a mini pedigree of all my ancestors on the Census time-capsule. Its hand written only - so I will be writing it in with pen - but wondering if drawing a tree diagram would work on the census - or does it have to be a written sentance. 🤔

Mick Tator

The Census form is machine readable but only for a form-specific format. However, the ‘Time capsule’ is for written detail, so images e.g. a family tree will not be read. You'll have to write/print longhand

NIMAN

I thought the white box was scanned?

If so, then surely a hand-drawn image will be accepted?

It does say not to include photos though. But I thought it meant printed photos like you'd get in a chemist.

stopthevoting

You can write or draw whatever you want in the time capsule. It has to be handwritten because you can't put the page through a printer, as it is attached to the Census form booklet. But it can be anything handwritten such as text, or a family tree diagram, or a drawing, or a child's handprint or outline. You cannot include a photograph because nothing is allowed to be glued or stapled on. The record of the time capsule that will be available in 100 years will be a scanned image of whatever you write or draw, so it does not have to be a written sentence.

The rest of the census is for official purposes so it has to be easily machine readable and use capital letters. But the time capsule section can be freehand.

pinkypinky

I think it can be a drawing - I've heard lots of encouragement to get kids to draw in the box.

My list for inclusion is: brief contacts for my immediate family who do not live with me. As a genealogist, it's often hardest to confirm individuals without their familial context. However, I hope this won't be an issue because we now put precise DOBs, birth surnames, etc down.

List of hobbies, interests, likes and dislikes. Very hard to reconstruct this info. I do not expect my Facebook/Twitters/Boards to be accessible. Names of my closest friends.

DNA haplogroups for my mtDNA and my surname's YDNA. A couple of family history titbits that I've discovered through research.

Mick Tator

I disagree Pinky. I suspect an image would not be readable as the census ‘box’ specifies ‘handwritten messages only’, which suggests a machine-reader, transcribing from cursive to print. The ‘lines’ connecting siblings and generations in a tree would screw that royally. Each census return would require sophisticated IT to overcome that, and knowing the CSO, that is not going to happen.

For the Census return, put down what you want, you won’t be around to worry about it in 2122, if (big IF) ‘they’ have it available online by then, the 'Pinky Clan', will at that time, like me now , be repeating the same stuff, asking for the 100 years period to be reduced and demanding a proper service. (On the verge of a rant on the ineptitude of the Civil Service and IT!)

stopthevoting

The form does say the time capsule box is for Handwritten messages, but in my opinion this means not to attach any other piece of paper with sellotape or staples etc. I doubt that the intention is to transcribe the information. I don't think that current technology would be good enough for that task.

I think the intention is to let the exact image of the message be seen as is, when the time comes. Trying to automatically transcribe such a huge volume of text in a wide variety of writing styles would be very unreliable and would introduce errors into the information.

But who knows what technology might be available in the future. We can now see images and transcriptions of the 1901 and 1911 Censuses in a way that the people of the time could never even have imagined.

For this time capsule, I would say that if the intention was only to save a transcription of the message, then they would have printed boxes for the letters and said to use block capitals.

Hermy

As an adoptee I'll be recording the names of my birth parents and a bit about their families.

55Gem

I've traced out the size of the box so I can do a few practice runs to see how much of my tree (written out) I can fit. The writing will have to be quite small, hope it's clear enough.

pinkypinky

I've done the same, Gem, but could fit a lot in.

pinkypinky

Happy census day! Filling out the census is a real link to the past and the future. In my job, I spend so much time looking at censuses, I like to remember that I'm contributing to that for the future genealogists. Of course, it'll be much easier for them because we now put precise dates of birth on the returns and, provided none are lost, we should be able to track people back through them more easily, and they're every 5 years from 1951 too. That'll be the first census I'll find one of my parents on.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118868861#Comment_118868861

The CSO lady on Ireland AM this morning explicitly mentioned drawings, such as the outline of a child's hand, so CSO have no difficulty with drawings. It will be scanned and reproduced as a whole at some stage. Who knows what tech will be available in 100 years time to interpret it.

OU812

I've put in "if Ancestry.com still exists, there's an extensive family tree dating back some 250+ years that I've worked on for the past 15 years with some DNA data in there (I've got my parents, in-laws & us). there's a couple of skeletons discovered because of this, I intend on passing down the details to my kids and hopefully theirs. The tree that's really interesting is currently hidden because of people being still alive

However, I have a letter to my successors which includes instructions & details to make it public when they see fit & include the login details. They'll all know it by thin as I intend to tell them after the relevant people pass and they're old enough to understand so it won't be news to them (but there's gonna be some mighty surprised people out there suddenly finding out they're now only half cousins :)

Mick Tator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874087#Comment_118874087

That sounds positive but in 100 years how can that data be accessed? From long experience of this State and its various ‘arms’ with IT, I have zero confidence in its ability to properly manage anything involving IT.

Storing 20 census returns for a growing population  swallows a lot of power: what if to ‘save the environment’ that data is dumped (just as several 19th c. censuses were dumped) for reasons of economy?

If you are serious about your genealogy/family history work, put it on acid-free paper and give it to the GO in the  NLI. There is a folder there in Loose Mss on my family with letters that date to the first half of the 19thC. I am hugely indebted to my kinsman who did that in pre-Famine Ireland and I continue to emulate him.

pinkypinky

Ah don't be so negative, Mick. We're doing what we can to ensure. I also put that I'll try put records in the NLI or with the IGRS but who knows if those organisations will exist then too or whether they'll be accepting material.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118876517#Comment_118876517

You could save the Census forms for the entire country on an external drive that you could buy in PC World. Disk is cheap.

An in general, Irish government has a very strong track record when it comes to IT, particularly organisations like CSO, Revenue, Dept Social Protection and more.

Having said that , paper is great too. Is that option for the NLI open to everyone?

Mick Tator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118876583#Comment_118876583

If you have properly sourced and referenced geno data AFAIK the NLI will take it, they too mine.

Until the 'very strong track record' on IT bit I was taking you seriously as I totally disagree with that comment.

 Our Civil Service has a disgraceful record in that regard - think of the inability of various Govt. Depts. to access/share info. Think of an inability to stop Social Welfare fraud, of the inability of that Dept. to link anything to another Dept.; think  of useless voting machines, think of the failed and flawed Garda PULSE system; think of the inability to access driver/insurance details; think of the HSE hack, one that was the result of total negligence bordering on criminal. Are you aware that Irish corporate documents (Company filings) are not machine readable, a situation almost unique in the EU. (In the 1990’s the response to pointing out this need was ‘What would we want to do that for?’) ……. Etc., etc. The latest wheeze is to blame failures (i.e. stupidity and ineptitude) on GDPR, an umbrella that shields well-paid bureaucrats from blame for  not doing their jobs properly  and a handy peg on which to hang their incompetence upon.

Cybercrime - a hot topic, Ireland Inc was offering the top job to someone willing to work for about €80,000 p.a. The going rate (minimum) for a person that would be needed for a role of that calibre is north of €600k p.a. On IT I regret and am ashamed to say that we are a joke

@Pinky - I'm negative on this as a resuly of personal experience of dealing with Ireland Inc on IT issues. As for NLI, it will be around, but unless the IGRS modernises it won't.

Jellybaby_1

Let's not be too worried folks, sure in a hundred years they'll have invented a way to travel back through time and if they need any clarification they'll just come back and ask us! 😉

Hermy

Folks, can we please keep the discussion on topic.