Orban party Fidesz wins election in Hungary

josip

Many Hungarians have, like Russians, a dangerous yearning for the glorious days of the past when they were part of a great empire. It's also no secret that they were particularly brutal against other nationalities when fighting on the Axis side in World War II.

Their participation was noted by German observers for its particular cruelty, with occupied peoples subjected to arbitrary violence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary_in_World_War_II

Despite protestations that many Hungarians object to Orban, he does seem to have reawoken this inner fascist in enough Hungarians to continually get re-elected with a massive majority.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881256#Comment_118881256

You mean this one, with the relevant part in bold:

Do you support the teaching of sexual orientation to underage children in public education institutions without parental consent?

Still selling those Herrings I see.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881301#Comment_118881301

What is wrong with discussing sexual orientation without parental consent?

Do we get parental consent for physics or biology or mathematics? What about PE?

What's so different about sexual orientation? Especially considering a significant percentage of these kids are gay?

Imagine being 15 and gay in a country that runs homophobic media campaigns and seeks to outlaw discussion of being gay in school.. that's not going to cause problems for future generations is it? Not like Ireland or the UK had such issues in the past and it worked out just fine 🙄

You also very conveniently missed out half the problems with the current gov in relation to LGBT rights, started complaining about other posters and then make the mad claim that most of EU would probably vote the same... Why let pesky facts get in the way if a good yarn, eh?

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881301#Comment_118881301

Ah! So you found the one about gay people! Great! I accept your apology.

Anyway, moving on. Why should a child need parental consent to be taught that other sexual orientations exist? Should they also need parental consent to be taught that a lot of people don't believe in God? Or that global warming exists? Or that the earth is a sphere?

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881502#Comment_118881502

I find it weird that you think parents need to consent to their children learning about homosexuality.

After there any other parts of the curriculum you would like to see move to this bizarre model?

Flat earthers have to opt in to geography? Creationists have to consent to biology? Catholics won't allow mentioning of the Qur'an?

The curriculum covers sex education. People are gay therefore gay sex and sexual orientation is discussed. Same as heterosexuality is.

Seems like Orban would love you, you seem to play right into his nonsense.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881502#Comment_118881502

Of course parents have a right to know what their children are being taught! Who suggested otherwise? Or is that, dare I say it, a red herring?

But I don't see why a parent should have the right to veto teaching of the fact that other people may have a different sexual orientation? Maybe you could explain that to me?

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881573#Comment_118881573

Or that maybe the child themselves have a different orientation to being heterosexual.. can you imagine!

Polar101

I can't say I never understood Orban's policies - he seems to find a lot of his anti-EU rhetoric from the Treaty of Trianon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon) in 1920, which pretty much cut Hungary's territory down to the areas inhabited by Hungarians. He is very nationalistic and anti-immigration, but seems to want the old borders restored, which would in turn make Hungary a multi-cultural state. Makes no sense to me, but then I'm not Hungarian.

The "election" results were never in doubt, a lot of the people outside Budapest think they can't afford to vote for anyone else.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881585#Comment_118881585

But if the child was never taught about it in school, how could they ever be gay? 😁

Actually, thinking about it, if that is the mindset of some people, that sexuality is "learned" rather than innate, it rather goes to prove how important it is to teach kids what a load of horseshit that kind of thinking really is.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879109#Comment_118879109

Will be interesting to see, if European countries move to the right, and the rules change, will the usual suspects stick with the rules are rules speeches.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881336#Comment_118881336

More red herrings than a Spanish Trawler 😂

Is sexual orientation an academic subject now? Why conflate the two? Seems weird and a bit desperate to me.

I'm trying to imagine a world where requiring informed consent from parents as to what their children are being taught equates to "outlaw discussion of being gay in school", it's a strange and hysterical world occupied by strange and hysterical people. What's more interesting is that the strange people who want push the notion that men and women are entirely inter changeable to school kids always run and hide behind gay people when they're challenged. Are you one of those strange people?

I presume you are not in favour of parents being able to withdraw their children from religious classes also?

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880257#Comment_118880257

Why do you find he will of the people "alarming"?? Maybe they are fed up with the looney left makey-uppey feelings based shyte??

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881201#Comment_118881201

They haven't prohibited anything. Did you read the question? Perhaps you missed the "without parental consent"?

And tax incentives to raise the young population is wrong why? It should be done in Ireland too, we're constantly told about our "aging population" and that we need to import the third world to deal with the pensions timebomb, so it would make sense to give tax breaks/financial rewards to upstanding parents who have more kids.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882388#Comment_118882388

I find Both extreme Right and Left wing ideology Alarming Generally, I don't discriminate, indeed any extreme views can be alarming.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881569#Comment_118881569

Religion in Ireland is generally about Catholicism, especially in religious run schools and in the run up to Communion and Confirmation. Should Muslims etc be made to sit through these classes, without parental consent?

Do you think the parents would be happy with little Muhammed going home singing "Zacchaeus was a greedy little man, He cheated all the people in the land"??

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882369#Comment_118882369

Hmmm there is hysteria alright but it's not from my post!

I am not in favour of the Irish style if religion class at all. Where I was schooled we were taught about all world religions. No idea what that's got to do with things (kinda amusing from the poster that bangs on about red herrings..).

The Hungarian law prohibits any discussion around non heterosexual lifestyles, including sex education.

If you think that's a wise thing for a society to do then you are either too young or too ignorant to not be aware of the problems caused in pre 90s Ireland or by section 28 in the UK (for example).

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882430#Comment_118882430

I think if you are sending your kid to a Catholic school then the consent is implied. But I also think the Catholic church should have nothing to do with state education and religion class should be about teaching how the world's religions work and not shoving one particular religion down ones throat.

But none of this is relevant to Hungary banning any discussion on non heterosexual lifestyles, which is what it is.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882405#Comment_118882405

Not only did I read the bit about parental consent, I explicitly referenced it!

Discussion requires parental consent. Imagine growing up gay with homophobic parents (much more likely when a country is aggressively targeting gay people via the media and other comments).. how do you think that's going to work out?

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882388#Comment_118882388

If you believe it's the genuine, honest m, will of the people then there is little point discussing further. The mass election fraud, gerrymandering and abuse of power by bullying local councils and state run TV pushing the gov agendas had made sure there is no will of the people.

Maybe look into this a bit more before jumping in with your own makey-uppey "facts".

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882522#Comment_118882522

I don't know if you are Irish, but the vast majority of schools in Ireland are are religious owned. You'd have to homeschool if you didn't want you kid going to one. So with no other option, you'd be happy for Muslims to learn Catholicism? Since they sent their kid to a catholic school.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882554#Comment_118882554

There is mass election fraud, gerrymandering and abuse of power by bullying local councils and state run TV pushing governments' agenda's right the way across Europe?? Why is it not reported?

Or have you just read my reply, jumped on it, and not read what I was replying to?? And topped it off by telling me to look more into it. Hahaha.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882562#Comment_118882562

I didn't school in Ireland, no.

I'm not happy for any one to be taught how to be a Catholic in school (that's for church).

I'm happy for the all kids to learn about all religions as part of the curriculum.

Your example doesn't stack up and highlights the difference. Teaching about sexual orientation isn't teaching someone how to be gay. But as part of the requirement for parental consent the gay kids are going to miss out on a lot (including sex education and sexual health).

Additionally you are stigmatising some people as the homophobic parents will not consent and some children will have little awareness or the homophobia will continue.

If you think that's ok, fine. But I can see a lit wrong with it, and it's only the tip of the iceberg as to what is going on over there.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882588#Comment_118882588

I'm laughing at your suggestion that the election has returned the will of the people. If you have been following Hungarian politics for any period if time you will know this to be questionable at best.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882612#Comment_118882612

I think following the will of the people is ok. Politicians are there to serve the people, not the other way around.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882642#Comment_118882642

Again, I never said that. The poster I replied to said that the right is on the rise all across Europe, I asked what is wrong with that if it is the will of the people, all across Europe. The whole of Europe has nothing to do with Hungarian politics, unless you think Orban has infiltrated France, Italy, UK etc??

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882692#Comment_118882692

It seems I misinterpreted your posts.

In a fair system, if it's the genuine will of the people then fair enough (unless people are being actively harmed).

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882704#Comment_118882704

That's fair enough, I was talking about the rise of the right across Europe as opposed to Hungary.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882680#Comment_118882680

Ok but now you have replied to a post of mine where I talk explicitly about Hungary.

Do you think the election in Hungary returned the genuine will if the people?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880057#Comment_118880057

Serbia has been at candidate status since 2012. There's been no movement on their application in the meantime. Their pro-Putin president has just won a landslide so unlikely to see any movement for at least the best part of this decade.

josip

The most worrying aspect of Hungary for me is the increasing restriction on press freedoms and any dissenting voices.

It's been easy to see how quickly this then leads to repetitive election victories.

It's the exact same playbook that Milosevic and Putin worked from.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882719#Comment_118882719

Yes, they voted for Orban.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882760#Comment_118882760

Lol.. circular discussion alert...

This time I'm laughing at the notion that someone could think that this election was even able to return the genuine will of the people (and I have replied to the correct post as well!). You clearly have little understanding of the Hungarian political landscape.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881336#Comment_118881336

I do not think it is about under 18 or 15 years old like you mention. It was most likely aimed at preventing kindergarten drag queen shows which become common place in many western countries.

I somehow think that 15 or 18 years old know quite a lot about sex orientation. In some cases from their parents even.

It make not much sense to ram sexual orientation down to 10 year old or younger kids anyway while 10-15 I do not know, I think they may have different priorities than trying to figure what gender out of all the possibilities recently invented they may be.

I think most of the Hungarian referendum questions were about and aimed at minors.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882745#Comment_118882745

Isnt that the same what was up until very recently stated ad nauseum about Poland? Election reforms aimed at granting victory to the ruling party. Judicial reforms where they were threatened with fines and god knows what? Anti LGBT laws and declaring LGBT free zones... Plus much more, Poland was pretty much described as pariah of the EU even bigger than Hungary is.

Somehow it changed and quite quickly and most of it is conveniently forgotten since there there is new (old) bogeyman elected in Hungary. Double standards? Who knows, politics...

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882802#Comment_118882802

Yup and you would be assuming wrong.

joseywhales

Am I supposed to give a **** about other people's gender, whether they change it or what they want to have sex with? Why is it our business?

I don't know why it's important, I do what I want and I expect others to do the same.

I don't think this has much to do with orbans reelection either, other than he is conservative.

I'm much more concerned with his governments failed challenge to overrule the ECJ and whether he will continue to try to flout the internal laws of the European union.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883585#Comment_118883585

Perhaps he just do not want Hungary to go full Oregon style.

Who knows... I may be assuming wrong again :)

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882554#Comment_118882554

What 'mass fraud'?

Media, state-owned and otherwise, favour some candidates over others in every election in every country on earth.

Doesn't mean will of the people wasn't freely expressed.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883603#Comment_118883603

You are misinterpreting posts again. The post you replied to with the above has nothing to do with gay rights.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883585#Comment_118883585

I'd imagine Hungarians and other normal people take a look at the absolute insanity that's prevailing in the west with this sort of disturbing and serious carry on in schools and deciding to nip it in the bud.

If you want a working definition of a normal person it's someone who's defintion of a woman will have them banned from boards 🙂

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883649#Comment_118883649

Its also got fk all to do with Hungary but it didn't stop you replying 😆🙄

I can't even find a source for the dumped in screenshot.

What's your point again?

What's a normal person? Are you one?

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883641#Comment_118883641

Yeah maybe, that's why I prefer to ask and check things out at least a little bit.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883760#Comment_118883760

It has a lot to do with Hungary. It shows the lunacy that Hungary are trying to avoid. But you know this and were trying to have a Gotcha moment to get some sweet, sweet, internet points!!

joseywhales

Honest question, did orban get reelected because Hungarians don't want their children to know about transgender people?

The joys of the European Union.

Many countries and cultures coming together.

Eastern Europe haven't enjoyed the spoils that western Europe has, often as the result of exploitation of poorer countries.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883815#Comment_118883815

Not at all. I'm very concerned for my friends and other people I know in Hungary.

You know, normal, gay and bisexual people.

It's interesting reveal of how your mind works tho. This isn't about one up manship, there are serious consequences. But you obviously see it as an interet game etc

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883643#Comment_118883643

Three posts later, still no evidence of 'mass election fraud'.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883054#Comment_118883054

Says he as he shites on about something that applies in a different country and has nothing to do with what anyone was talking about.

Still haven't told me the problem with teaching children that some people have differing sexual orientations.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883986#Comment_118883986

Yeah, twisting peoples words really makes your compassion shine through. 🤣

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884313#Comment_118884313

Honestly, not everyone is out to get you. There are no bogeymen here. Relax and read the thread again... There has been no twisting words.

Heres what I do if I find people fail to understand my point. I try to rephrase it or think about where the angle of misinterpretation happened.

There is no need to throw the sarcasm at me in these circumstances!