Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896877#Comment_118896877

This is all correct.

There seems to be a huge level of denial going on in lots of levels in Irish society and on boards about the scale of our housing crisis. There. Are.No. Premises. To. House.Families. Hap or no hap. RS or no R/S. benefits or no benefits. The properties don’t exist. Accept it.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896825#Comment_118896825

Well said 👏

Dempo1

So the pledge concept going well 🤔

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/almost-3-000-offers-of-vacant-properties-to-house-refugees-fail-to-materialise-1.4847538

Sleeper12

I'm sure some people are having a change of mind but it's worth remembering that people put their names on the Red Cross site & haven't heard a thing in well over a month. There are hundreds of people on that list in my own area in Dublin that got their own refugees through Facebook. There are thousands of refugees housed in Ireland by people on the Red Cross site that can no longer take what was pledged because they already have refugees. I pointed this out near the start of the thread. I'd suggest that there is a lot more than the 3 thousand they now no about that already heve refugees in their home. The Red Cross were very slow getting in touch with homeowners. Most still have not been contacted

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896137#Comment_118896137

Because currently 80% of the rental income needs to be given to the nursing home. Now who in their right mind would rent out a house at 20% of its market value?

Take for example somewhere in rural Ireland where rent might be 400 euro a month for the house. You actually only get 80 euro a month. So for 1k a year (roughly 500 euro post tax if on higher rate). Then auctioneer fees etc. It's just not worth it.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896771#Comment_118896771

I've already seen it in my local group. Ukrainian refugees posting asking if anyone knows of anywhere. Its heartbreaking really as not only are they refugees but they then have to come here and find somewhere in this market. The housing crisis is and has been an emergency for years now. I don't think people realise how bad it is because the vast majority of people have accommodation so they're not going through it.

Last time I had to search for accommodation was 9 years ago and even then it was pure hell.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897048#Comment_118897048

Five weeks now and we have heard nothing from the Red Cross . We have a four bed house in Dublin close to everything you need . I am very reluctant to go it alone without the Red Cross support but will be tempted very soon if this lack of communication carries on .

An e mail to say “ stay patient “ would even be something but to know nothing is so frustrating . I wouldn’t have a clue how to go about contacting anyone through Facebook

hillwalkingjesuslovesme

Agree with your comments. Also, can anyone confirm that Ukrainians will be given children’s allowances? And has anyone discussed Ukrainian refugees giving birth in Ireland and how that will work in terms of future rights? There’s so much involved. Michael Martin says stay as long as you want, but Wouldn’t it be better if we gave it a limited period of time? Wouldn’t it be better if we had some rules around this simply to safeguard everybody concerned.

Sleeper12

The red cross are in for a shock when they realise how many on their list already have taken in refugees

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897125#Comment_118897125

Yes to children allowance.

Giving birth in Ireland I don't know about. I do expect anyone who has got off social benefits and held down a full time job to be considered for permanent stay in Ireland. Can't see why they would kick out a productive person

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896903#Comment_118896903

While I don't entirely disagree, there is also a lot of denial in Irish society about the nature of our housing crisis.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-has-10th-highest-rate-of-vacant-homes-in-the-world-study-finds-1.4709476

There's a lot of cultural bullsh1t around land and property in this country, to the point that we will defend to the hilt someone's right to own a property and leave it vacant, even while a housing crisis rages.

We need to enact harsh vacancy taxes and start CPOing unused land and houses in high-demand areas. As well as incentive schemes for older people to downsize.

Property speculation is immoral and should not be facilitated by the state.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896903#Comment_118896903

Surely this is a blinkered city centric view of Ireland. There's plenty of empty and vacant houses in Ireland - they're just not in Dublin or Cork or Galway etc. Never mind many towns and villages that are in decline, many coastal areas have lots of owner owned & holiday rental housing.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897272#Comment_118897272

So the government should just take private property?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897235#Comment_118897235

That's a great headline figure that suggests there is a glut of houses ready to go.

But when you drill down into it, not so much. Table 4.3.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/vac/

Yes if we could get people to up sticks and move to Roscommon or Leitrim then problem solved. You need infrastructure though, I don't even want to think about how our national broadband plan is going at the moment. 😕

I think before the government start doing land grabs, they should really get their own shít together.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/special-report-4000-properties-owned-by-councils-empty-in-a-housing-crisis-41244351.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897272#Comment_118897272

Short term yes these places would “suffice” - but even then they’d need to be brought up to standard and that takes time. But we’re not talking short term here -1-4 months- we’re talking 12-18 months minimum - many of these Ukrainians have had their whole cities towns and villages destroyed - where will they go? Living in a rural village above a closed down shop in a one horse town miles from any amenities won’t cut it medium term- there’s a whole heap of trouble ahead- and just in case anyone is interpreting this as against Ukrainians coming here, far from it- but I think we have our heads buried in the sand on this one, in terms of just how feicing big this whole project is . Our population is rising by over 5% in a matter of months and we already have a housing crisis

There will have to be:

big tax breaks for those accommodating Ukrainians in their own home to help them meet the rising bills in the medium term

A plan to revitalise towns and villages - fast track CPO of unused buildings and convert

etc etc etc

FYI- the Red Cross registration site is asking for a 12-18 month commitment when volunteering to house people - that’s a big commitment for many and they’ll need monetary support to do that

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897272#Comment_118897272

I live in urban Thurles. I encourage you to go on daft.ie or rent.ie and see how many properties are to be let in our area.

Patrick2010

UK require Ukrainian refugees to apply for a visa to enter the country, we are taking in anyone who wants to come. UK has taken 1000 refugees so far, Ireland a country 10 times smaller has taken in 18000 so far with an additional 600 a day coming. What is the point in telling refugees we're prepared to take in 200000 when we clearly have no room for them?

A 40/1000 failure rate reported here in UK of matching - while small it’s worrying nevertheless

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10698039/Female-Ukraine-refugees-seek-new-UK-homes-men-sexual-advances-insiders-say.html

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897342#Comment_118897342

Yes. Absolutely. CPO it and house people.

Cal4567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897235#Comment_118897235

It really is time we started to have the blunt conversation. I'm sick and tired of listening to people who are adequately housed tell me we haven't a housing crisis. However, everyone I know who has tried to rent or buy a property over the last few years has a nightmare story to tell. Those stories have only got worse. We are probably in the middle of the most dysfunctional property market.

We are seeing now over the last few days how the powers at be are struggling to source suitable accommodation. In the space of barely a month, we've gone from promoting an open door policy (100,000, 200,000, whatever number) to running out of options fairly quick, once we got to around 20,000. It's also taken the Ukrainian refugee crisis for the wider comfortable part of the population to finally understand this, that there is a severe shortage of properties out there.

Do I think we should be providing solace to the Ukrainians. YES.

Do I think we are able to do so, much beyond the numbers we have around now (circa 20,000). NO.

Surely the government and their advisors in the civil service must have sat down, in early March, just 4 weeks ago, and with all the information to hand, realise that we have just enough opportunities to house a finite number of people over the immediate future?

By all means bring in emergency legislation to target empty properties but I have to ask why we've just sidestepped around dealing with any enforcement action over vacant homes, over the last decade. Another one to add to the growing list of disastrous Irish political policy decisions.

Annasopra

I suspect the 200,000 figure was a kite flying excercise in reality and the plan is for about 100,000

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897553#Comment_118897553

I think we will end up with far less than 200,000, but only because they didnt actually think about their offer. Now that reality is here they have looked at logistics and are getting a landing. But sure whats new for politicians.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897542#Comment_118897542

So buy up peoples private property for X amount of money (market rate I assume) and supply for refugee housing costing the country a huge amount of money. Going forward would you ban people from owning a holiday home?

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897542#Comment_118897542

If the government wants to CPO my house I'd burn it to the ground first and all those property is theft latte socialists could suck my sweaty left one.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897553#Comment_118897553

Ah sure 100,000, yeah we can work with that... 🙄

I fully understand the visceral need to help. It's one I feel myself. However after the emotionals must come the practicals and we're not close to acknowledging them. We went from a seemingly intractable housing shortage - forget the homeless for a moment, it's one which any renter trying to find somewhere is all too aware of and not just in Dublin, Cork, Galway either - to accomodation for tens of thousands, even a hundred thousand people, many of whom are traumatised by this hideous war. That's just a roof over people's heads, there's also educational needs for the children, the basic services that people require and how those extending this needed help get help themselves to supply it after the inevitable honeymoon period is over.

That's before we account for another seemingly intractable Irish health service crisis that's been going on for decades, but we can sprinkle magical fairy dust and accomodate tens of thousands of people into that too? We've also one of the biggest social welfare bills in the EU and now we add tens of thousands to that as well? I'd love to find this magical money tree, I'd like a few leaves from it myself.

Never mind that it seems we've forgotten about covid 19 near overnight and the massive costs to us financially and pyschologically(though since Ukraine has taken over our attention the latter shouldn't be much of an issue) and an ongoing problem on top of the major problems in our health services. There are 1200 in hospital with that pox, 50 odd in ICU, 84,000 over 75's on hospital waiting lists, over a million on current healthcare waiting lists. Today. Before we add twenty, thirty, one hundred thousand people to the mix. Where is the magical solution tree to all this?

And that honeymoon period will end. That's the problem with mostly running off emotionals, they tend to have a time limit and that clock is already ticking. They also sadly tend to swing negatively if we're not careful. And never mind the Irish people, where will that leave those tens of thousands of displaced old people, women and kids?

Blue and yellow ribbons, slava Ukraine! in twitter bios and outbursts about the horrors and "think of the children!!", they have their place and aren't going away, but we need actual practical responses to this crisis from our government and we need them yesterday.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897358#Comment_118897358

Also many of these vacant homes as recorded by the CSO are in need of serious refurb to be habitable

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897650#Comment_118897650

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897781#Comment_118897781

And there's that magical money tree again.

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897542#Comment_118897542

That'd go down well.. 🤣

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897815#Comment_118897815

We should just invite a million and kick everybody out of their houses. I'm sure there's plenty of money for it!

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897358#Comment_118897358

There's no reason we can't do these things in parallel. The lack of infrastructure is not a de facto reason why a property or set of properties is unsuitable. We hear constant stories about housing stock that can't be used for council housing because it's not up to standard. Even though 75% of the rest of us live perfectly fine in housing that wouldn't reach that standard. There has to be a balance somewhere.

I was looking a house last year which hadn't been upgraded since it was built in the late 70s, and I asked someone in the know whether they thought it would be possible to live in it while upgrading it piecemeal. Their answer has stuck with me and given me a new perspective on the whole notion. They pointed out that I grew up in a house just like that. Single paned windows, insufficient insulation, inefficient boilers and radiators. While not ideal, not the home comforts I'm now used to, to put up with housing like that for a couple of months or even years is hardly intolerable suffering. A large, slightly chilly house but with a garden, a kitchen, 4 bedrooms and a front door you can close, is surely better than everyone cramped in a hotel room or relying on the charity of another family. Pump the money into improving the housing stock, but use it while we improve it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897650#Comment_118897650

I wouldn't ban per se, but I also would not be opposed to it being possible to CPO holiday homes or even second homes where the local need for housing warranted it.

second toughest in the infants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897727#Comment_118897727

Nail on the head.

But you know, you're an inconsiderate heartless bastard that wants to see kids run over by tanks.

I'm king of the heroes. Look at me save the world typing on tinternet. Where's all me thanks for my heroism from my fellow heroes?

Now let me fix the cushions on my moral pedestal.

Load of shite.